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Old 27th November 2015, 18:02   #721
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So the solution is a surbo?

Also, there was another product discussed sometime back, some vanes fitted in the intake. So now v-dub is heading for IP issues?
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Old 29th November 2015, 07:22   #722
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by freedom View Post
If this "flow transformer" is so good then I would like to see it installed on every car from every manufacturer! Every engine will benefit from "measuring the correct mass air"
I have given some thought to this. I dont think that the flow trnsformer is going to improve the emissions.

The emission control will be done by the modified software which is also included for the rectification of the issue in the 1.6 L EA189 engine. The flow transformer in the engine inlet region is only to make the flow laminar and ensure better air mass flow sensing happens( the sensor already exists).
This will result in better control of combustion and improved drivability.

So basically, the loss of performance due to the software change will be partly offset by the inclusion of this flow transformer.

Its strange that VW has decided to include a huge marketing image with details of how a hardware fix is going to be implemented without going to the specifics. I suppose of bunch of 'auto enthusiasts' are going to pick this news up and claim that VW has created magic and has applied awesome engineering to overcome adversity and VW is epic etc. If not anything its a nice document for the dealer to divert the customer from the actual software change which is going to happen..
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Old 29th November 2015, 10:55   #723
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by sukarsan View Post
I have given some thought to this. I dont think that the flow trnsformer is going to improve the emissions.
...
...
If not anything its a nice document for the dealer to divert the customer from the actual software change which is going to happen..
My point is if a <10 Rupee pipe can help a wee bit (even if we ignore the software part), then each and every car VAG/non-VAG will benifit from the device.
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Old 30th November 2015, 16:16   #724
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW Group to recall over 3,20,000 cars in India
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ia-398915.aspx
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Old 30th November 2015, 16:42   #725
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
VW Group to recall over 3,20,000 cars in India
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ia-398915.aspx
Did vw even sell 3,20,000 cars in India? 3 lac cars getting recalled might be the largest recall yet in India.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 12:31   #726
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I think a lot of debate around this topic has veered around what this means for the VW Group but we are missing what this means to the consumer.

I woke up today and found that VW is recalling its cars in India and I am more or less sure this includes my car, a 2012 Vento TDI.

To be honest I love my car the way it is and had this scandal not broken out I would have never had these thoughts.

But now there is the prospect of I having to take my car to get its software reprogrammed. Essentially the car would then be able to achieve the claimed emission standards but I am sure there will be a drastic change in terms of ownership experience in terms of 1) there will be a change in performance...most probably for the worse and 2) there will be a drop in fuel efficiency

What this implies for me is that if I choose to respond to the recall I will have a car which would not be the one I purchased. Or I could dodge the recall and kill my conscience to enjoy the car.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 15:05   #727
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by BowMan View Post
What this implies for me is that if I choose to respond to the recall I will have a car which would not be the one I purchased. Or I could dodge the recall and kill my conscience to enjoy the car.
Hi,

We have a Rapid in close friend circle and after reading the news today, we decided against going for the recall.

My friend spent close to 13 lakhs 3 months back to get 1.5L Diesel DSG and would not like to compromise on the power and the torque as we understand that recall would involve tuning the engine for better efficiency while comprising power.
Please correct, if we are wrong.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 17:27   #728
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
Hi,

We have a Rapid in close friend circle and after reading the news today, we decided against going for the recall.

My friend spent close to 13 lakhs 3 months back to get 1.5L Diesel DSG and would not like to compromise on the power and the torque as we understand that recall would involve tuning the engine for better efficiency while comprising power.
Please correct, if we are wrong.
It's nice to know that you have decided. But we are still discussing this in our family. My father for sure feels we should not sacrifice the environment for thrills and thrift...but I am still undecided.

It would be interesting if there is someone in the forum outside India who has experienced his VW TDI after this fix first hand?
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Old 2nd December 2015, 18:43   #729
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukarsan View Post
I have given some thought to this. I dont think that the flow trnsformer is going to improve the emissions.

The emission control will be done by the modified software which is also included for the rectification of the issue in the 1.6 L EA189 engine. The flow transformer in the engine inlet region is only to make the flow laminar and ensure better air mass flow sensing happens( the sensor already exists).
This will result in better control of combustion and improved drivability.

So basically, the loss of performance due to the software change will be partly offset by the inclusion of this flow transformer.
"Flow transformer" for a piece of wire mesh. . The product managers in VW are sure raking their collective craniums.

I do not understand why VW does not come clean on the loss of power front. They are anyway in deep s**t. Why tarnish it any further by lack of transparency on the loss of power and mileage.

I think the concerns I have on this front fall into the following three categories:
1. What is the max power output going to fall to?
2. What is the impact on how power is delivery across the rev range?
3. How is the mileage impacted?

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 18:45   #730
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Post Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by BowMan View Post
But now there is the prospect of I having to take my car to get its software reprogrammed. Essentially the car would then be able to achieve the claimed emission standards but I am sure there will be a drastic change in terms of ownership experience in terms of 1) there will be a change in performance...most probably for the worse and 2) there will be a drop in fuel efficiency

What this implies for me is that if I choose to respond to the recall I will have a car which would not be the one I purchased. Or I could dodge the recall and kill my conscience to enjoy the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
Hi,

We have a Rapid in close friend circle and after reading the news today, we decided against going for the recall.

My friend spent close to 13 lakhs 3 months back to get 1.5L Diesel DSG and would not like to compromise on the power and the torque as we understand that recall would involve tuning the engine for better efficiency while comprising power.
Please correct, if we are wrong.
This is what I would recommend.
  • Co-operate with the recall and get the emissions corrected. It's good for the environment and you are abiding by the law. Each of us have a responsibility in keeping the environment usable for our current and next generation.
  • File a consumer court case against VW, if there is a lose in power and/or mileage. Consumer courts are friendly and stand by the consumer in most cases.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 09:34   #731
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
[*]Co-operate with the recall and get the emissions corrected. It's good for the environment and you are abiding by the law. [/list]
Yes, you are right. We will certainly have second thought about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
[*]File a consumer court case against VW, if there is a lose in power and/or mileage. Consumer courts are friendly and stand by the consumer in most cases.
This one looks easier said than done. It's not easy to devote time and money for such cause. However I do hope that some type of owners group or associations is formed to take up the common cause.
United we would fight better.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 09:47   #732
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
This is what I would recommend. Co-operate with the recall and get the emissions corrected. It's good for the environment and you are abiding by the law. Each of us have a responsibility in keeping the environment usable for our current and next generation.
Thats true. We, as resposible citizens should do whatever we can to save the environment.

Looks like our government is also getting serious on the concerns day be day. Now they have decided to investigate all diesel vehicles in India. Kudos to them that they didn't limit their actions against only one automobile manufacturer like what US did after knowing the scandal, rather taking the issue in much wider sense.

Posted this important update in new thread since it doesn't remain limited to VAG only:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ion-norms.html
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Old 3rd December 2015, 16:56   #733
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Here is an article that sheds some light on how the "flow straightener" impacts emissions.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...s-2015-12?IR=T

It suggests that the flow transformer helps in implementing a more accurate EGR flow map to reduce NOx emissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
This is what I would recommend.
  • File a consumer court case against VW, if there is a lose in power and/or mileage. Consumer courts are friendly and stand by the consumer in most cases.
In india this would be a waste of time. An example is the case filed by Bhpian Harish against Skoda and it's dealers. 7 long years is what it took and final settlement was due to the positive attitude of the current Skoda MD and not due to the effectiveness of the judicial system.

Drive on,
Shibu

Last edited by shibujp : 3rd December 2015 at 16:59.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 20:20   #734
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

And here comes another shocker. Now Volkswagen says Cars sold in India do not have cheat device and comply with emission norms of India

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...ed-defeat.html
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Old 3rd December 2015, 21:52   #735
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Bosch sued over it's alleged role in VW emissions scandal!

Quote:
German auto supplier Robert Bosch GmbH has been accused of conspiring with Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) to evade diesel emissions standards in at least 11 million vehicles worldwide in a class action lawsuit filed late on Monday.

The lawsuit filed by a New York diesel owner in U.S. District Court in Detroit names Bosch - the world's largest auto supplier - along with VW, former VW CEO Martin Winterkorn and VW U.S. chief Michael Horn.

"Volkswagen's fraudulent scheme was facilitated and aided and abetted by defendant Bosch, which created the software used in Volkswagen's defeat device," said the 56-page lawsuit, which accuses the parties of violating civil racketeering laws and consumer fraud.

"Bosch's Hear no evil, See no evil' rationale for knowingly profiting from Volkswagen's crimes does not enable Bosch to escape civil liability under American law."

Reuters reported last month that federal prosecutors with the U.S. Justice Department are examining whether Bosch knew or participated in Volkswagen's years-long efforts to circumvent U.S. diesel emissions tests, citing people familiar with the matter.

Bosch built key components in the diesel engine used in six Volkswagen models and one Audi model that the automaker has admitted to rigging to defeat emissions tests.

The probe of Bosch is at an early stage and there is no indication that U.S. prosecutors have found evidence of wrongdoing at Bosch, people familiar with the matter told Reuters.

A U.S. Bosch spokeswoman declined to offer an immediate comment on the lawsuit. Bosch previously declined to comment on the investigation.

Bosch also faces similar class-action lawsuits in Atlanta, Chicago, Cincinnati, Alabama and Alexandria, Virginia.

The latest lawsuit says "as early as 2007, Bosch warned Volkswagen that using its software in vehicles that were driven on the road would constitute a criminal offence. Nevertheless, Bosch proceeded to sell or license 11 million of the component devices to Volkswagen over the next seven years."

The lawsuit cited a report from Germany's Bild am Sonntag newspaper in September that said VW's internal probe had turned up a 2007 letter from Bosch that also warned against the possible illegal use of Bosch-supplied software technology.

Under U.S. law, that would make Bosch a co-conspirator under anti-racketeering laws, making the company liable for triple damages for the fraud caused to U.S. consumers, the lawsuit says.

A U.S. judicial panel will meet in New Orleans Thursday to consider consolidating more than 350 lawsuits filed against VW in connection with the emissions scandal. VW and the Justice Department want the lawsuits centralized in Detroit.
LINK
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