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Old 4th December 2015, 02:23   #736
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by svkndv View Post
And here comes another shocker. Now Volkswagen says Cars sold in India do not have cheat device and comply with emission norms of India

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...ed-defeat.html
"Sir, I am sure I did not commit the theft but I'll pay you for your missing property anyway". . hilarious.

Drive on,
Shibu
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Old 4th December 2015, 05:50   #737
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Not entirely sure if this is appropriate here.

Yesterday, I gave a talk at the STC2015 conference in Bangalore on the ethics of testing. I had built my talk around the VW cheating. The main point I was trying to get at was that the cheat was IT based. Somebody coded and somebody else tested that piece of code which was explicitly written to cheat. In a professional set up there has to be consequences for doing something illegal whereas, I am sure the IT folks who worked on it will have no trouble finding a job. Who knows they might even be sought after!

I ended with a call for action to set up a means of getting a working ethics panel for the software testing community.
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Old 4th December 2015, 10:29   #738
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-vw-india-page.png
1. Volkswagen Group India has intimated why it believes that its cars are not equipped with a ‘defeat device’.
2. Volkswagen Group India under the observation of ARAI show that the tested cars of the brands Volkswagen, SKODA and Audi are not violating the Bharat Stage IV (BS IV) emission norms in India.
3. Volkswagen Group India has already announced a voluntary recall of all cars with EA 189 engines in India.
4. The 2.0-litre engines will get a software update. In the 1.5-litre and 1.6-litre engines, a ‘flow transformer’ will be fitted in front of the air mass sensor. In addition, a software update will also be performed on these engines. The measure for the 1.2-litre engines will be announced shorty.

Link - http://www.volkswagen.co.in/en/tools...---update.html
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Old 4th December 2015, 12:26   #739
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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They say that the engines meet all Indian standards but they are recalling the engines to ensure that the engines are in line with the latest international technical updates. What a load of BS.

Latest features on international models - both mechanical and others are regularly left out of their cars marketed in India for cost and margin considerations. So if they believe that their cars meet Indian standards then why not just leave the cars alone.

Drive on,
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Old 4th December 2015, 13:01   #740
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I have decided that I will benchmark some of the important parameters of my car before I send it for the fix....and yes it is more or less certain that environmental concerns will override performance and efficiency concerns in the decision making process. However I will like to still measure how much my car changes after the fix has been applied in three important areas

1) Fuel efficiency - I am conducting an experiment today. I got my fuel tank filled to the brim today and I will check what are the numbers under these test conditions

Ambient temperature at the time of filling - 22.5 dec. c.
Ambient temperature at the destination for to journey - 28 deg. c.

Climate control - 22 deg. c. throught the drive

Tyre pressure - 32 PSI F/29 PSI R Michelin XM2

Load - one passenger/no luggage

Route - Gandhinagar to baroda and back on NE1

I plan to get back home in the evening and refill the tank up to the brim and update my findings.

2) performance and 3) engine longevity...I don't want to do a drag race and a leaner mixture will generally mean decreased engine life. Perhaps someone more into performance side of things can benchmark that parameter?
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Old 4th December 2015, 14:39   #741
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by BowMan View Post
Fuel efficiency - I am conducting an experiment today. I got my fuel tank filled to the brim today and I will check what are the numbers under these test conditions
Considering the issue at discussion here, i would suggest to get a PUC also done before your test. If at all your car goes for a defect correction to the company, you can compare the results of this important parameter also after the car comes back from the showroom.

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Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
They say that the engines meet all Indian standards but they are recalling the engines to ensure that the engines are in line with the latest international technical updates.Latest features on international models - both mechanical and others are regularly left out of their cars marketed in India for cost and margin considerations.
Exactly shibu. All the models coming to india are always detuned. May it be performance or safty. Cost is a major factor that all the car manufacturers have to consider before getting any model to indian market, but compromising in any illegal manner should be strictly prohibited. Again, the consumer also should be aware enough to not buy such sub standard or illegal vehicles available in the market. But, we cannot say that. Even after the whole VW news, there are still so many people buying VW group cars today. When demand goes down due to such scandles, automatically the supply will go down. If one maintains the quality standards throughout, there is no need for the demand to go down, and the manufactures will definitely get benefits.

Last edited by allien936 : 4th December 2015 at 14:50.
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Old 5th December 2015, 17:57   #742
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by allien936 View Post

Exactly shibu. All the models coming to india are always detuned. May it be performance or safty. Cost is a major factor that all the car manufacturers have to consider before getting any model to indian market, but compromising in any illegal manner should be strictly prohibited. Again, the consumer also should be aware enough to not buy such sub standard or illegal vehicles available in the market. But, we cannot say that. Even after the whole VW news, there are still so many people buying VW group cars today. When demand goes down due to such scandles, automatically the supply will go down. If one maintains the quality standards throughout, there is no need for the demand to go down, and the manufactures will definitely get benefits.
What I meant was that if features can be left out, then why bother updating my "Legal in India" Polo with an update that potentially reduces it's performance and mileage?

Drive on,
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Old 7th December 2015, 11:57   #743
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by BowMan View Post
I have decided that I will benchmark some of the important parameters of my car before I send it for the fix....and yes it is more or less certain that environmental concerns will override performance and efficiency concerns in the decision making process. However I will like to still measure how much my car changes after the fix has been applied in three important areas

1) Fuel efficiency - I am conducting an experiment today. I got my fuel tank filled to the brim today and I will check what are the numbers under these test conditions

Ambient temperature at the time of filling - 22.5 dec. c.
Ambient temperature at the destination for to journey - 28 deg. c.

Climate control - 22 deg. c. throught the drive

Tyre pressure - 32 PSI F/29 PSI R Michelin XM2

Load - one passenger/no luggage

Route - Gandhinagar to baroda and back on NE1

I plan to get back home in the evening and refill the tank up to the brim and update my findings.

2) performance and 3) engine longevity...I don't want to do a drag race and a leaner mixture will generally mean decreased engine life. Perhaps someone more into performance side of things can benchmark that parameter?
Okay I have finished this experiment and here is the remaining data set.

The car traveled 269 Km on that day and when I got back to the same diesel bunk from where I got her topped up in the morning it took me 12.39 L of Diesel to fill her up to the same point. The ambient temperature was again 22.5 Deg. I drove much of the distance at a constant 100KmpH but there was some part within city driving conditions.

This gives me fuel economy of 21.71 KM per Liter of Diesel!

I really think my car is phenomenal and the more I think of it the more it seems like a case of not fixing what is not broke. After all environment is affected not just by emissions but also by how much fuel you consume...?

Last edited by BowMan : 7th December 2015 at 11:59.
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Old 7th December 2015, 12:15   #744
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by BowMan View Post
After all environment is affected not just by emissions but also by how much fuel you consume...?
Majority of people end up thinking like that way but unfortunately reality is opposite of it. Posted some details in other thread, please have look at that:

Government to investigate *all* diesel vehicles for emission norm violations

Last edited by tbppjpr : 7th December 2015 at 12:16.
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Old 7th December 2015, 18:26   #745
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

According to the report by Reuters, a source stated that brands like Ducati, Lamborghini and Bentley may be divested to cover the costs of the scandal, if VW cannot repay its debt. Volkswagen has reportedly told the banks supplying a 20 billion Euro loan that it would sell its assets if it finds no other way of repaying the one-year loan it has taken.

Link to Team-BHP news article
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Old 8th December 2015, 05:23   #746
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

It would be fun if Suzuki buys some of the divested VW stakes, and use it to arm twist VW in the future.

Its pay back time.
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Old 8th December 2015, 08:08   #747
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I would love to see M&M pick up Ducati or MAN. It would be a great asset for them in their engineering and two-wheeler divisions. Suzuki picking up a few stakes will be great as well. Maybe we can see some "Solid" Suzuki cars or badge engineered Swifts and Balenos
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Old 9th December 2015, 17:22   #748
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Twist in the tale see below

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/50107753.cms
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Old 9th December 2015, 21:42   #749
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen Finishes CO2 Emissions Investigation, Says Only 0.5% of Cars Are Affected.

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Every model believed to have CO2 figures that are too low was tested. Only nine specific units were discovered to have problems amounting to a few grams per kilometer. VW will let an independent organization re-test these nine cars, but says the deviations it discovered were minute, corresponding to increased cycle consumption in the NEDC of approximately 0.1 to 0.2 liters per 100 kilometers
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Volkswagen disclosed these issues on its own accord, and based on the fact that Renault and Opel cars have been accused of the same issues, we don't expect European governments to take drastic action.
Quote:
The list of cars affected is short, but very specific:
•Polo 1.0 TSI BlueMotion 70 kW with DSG
•Scirocco 2.0 TDI 135 kW with 6-speed manual
•Jetta 1.2 TSI 77 kW with a 6-speed manual
•Jetta 2.0 TDI 81 kW with a 5-speed manual
•Golf Convertible 2.0 TDI 81 kW with a five-speed manual
•Golf hatch 2.0 TDI 110 kW with a six-speed manual
•Passat Alltrack 2.0 TSI 4Motion 162 kW with DSG
•Passat Variant 2.0 TDI 4Motion 176 kW with DSG (yes, that's the bi-turbo)
•Passat Variant 1.4 TSI ACT 110 kW with a six-speed manual

These model variants will be re-measured by a neutral technical service under the supervision of the appropriate authority by Christmas. In cases where the correctness of original figures is confirmed, there will be no consequences as they can still be sold by private individuals and dealerships. If the increased emissions result in higher taxes, Volkswagen will pay them.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/vo...ed-102735.html

Last edited by volkman10 : 9th December 2015 at 22:01.
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Old 13th December 2015, 22:52   #750
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW admits the US scandal and reveals the reasons behind it.

Determined to sell diesels in a market with the world's toughest emissions standards, Volkswagen faced a challenge that even its vaunted engineers found impossible to solve. So they decided to cheat.

Quote:
Volkswagen's investigation will have a clear starting point: 2005, when the company made a "strategic decision to launch a large-scale promotion" of diesel vehicles in the U.S. market, according to a VW statement last week. The tip of the spear would be VW's EA 189 2.0-liter diesel engine.

At that time, the U.S. had far more stringent restrictions on nitrogen oxide emissions than Europe. According to VW, engineers working to develop the new EA 189 diesel engine for the U.S. market "initially" found it "impossible" to engineer an emissions system that could comply with the U.S. rules and also achieve VW's own cost and timing targets
Quote:
Their workaround: a software sleight that created two settings for the engine's emissions controls, one for lab tests that yielded low NOx and another for real-world driving, which produced significantly higher NOx levels.

It worked just as designed. It was also illegal

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...had-us-stumped
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