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Old 15th January 2016, 12:14   #766
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

The French government authorities are retesting the emissions output of 100 different cars in France - 25 of which are Renaults. Link to article:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...rs-says-french

The company's shares have tanked 21% at the stock exchange. There is breather though:

Quote:
French energy minister Segolene Royal has confirmed that the tests carried out on Renault cars have not uncovered any ‘defeat device’ emissions cheating software.

"There is no fraud at Renault. Shareholders and employees should be reassured," she said before going on to reveal that levels of CO2 and NOx above accepted limits have been detected in cars from other manufacturers.

In the meantime, I could dig out more dirt on the VW emission scandal:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2016...-deceit-100933

Excerpts:

Quote:
1. A consulting engineer in the test and development side of the car industry, who spoke to us on the condition of anonymity, confirmed that the most likely root cause of Volkswagen’s decision to cheat the EPA rules related to the size, weight and space of a urea tank that would work in the real world.
“If they (Volkswagen) had used the urea to meet the test they would have had to use it in the car all the time. If they had to use it probably they use it so often they might not have made it to the next scheduled service without bringing it in for a urea refill,” he confirmed.
“If customers don’t want to get the urea refilled at 20,000km but 50,000, then a 20-litre urea tank is 20kg (or 23kg), and you would say that hurts economy.
Customer Attitude

Quote:
2. For both CO2 and NOx, there are often major gaps between the test and real-world results, and the tricks of the testing trade are becoming known partly because engineers move between companies and partly because car companies have used them as bargaining chips in the move to real-world testing in Europe.
A consulting engineer in the test and development side of the car industry, who also spoke to us on the condition of anonymity, confirmed there were a range of test tricks that were technically legal, but took clear advantage of written loopholes.
“Vehicles can always be set up to perform well with a laboratory test without actually cheating. The easiest one is to have the speedo read at 100km/h when the car is doing 98km/h. It’s two km/h, which doesn’t sound much, but it’s two per cent, which is big for fuel economy, CO2, even noise levels,” he explained.
“There are many ways that the tests are distorted,” Archer insisted. “They will remove the air-conditioning before the tests to reduce the weight. They will make use of the inertia class system to put them in the lowest inertia class they can. To get to the upper end of one class, not the bottom end of the next one.”
Taking advantage of Legislation

Quote:
3. “That tolerance is there for a reason, and that’s to make sure it’s compliant with the law across the range of tyre wear and other factors. That’s your margin for life.
“You need to make sure that the car is compliant for its entire lifetime, but if you use all the tolerance at the start to get past the law when the car is new, it won’t be compliant for life.
“There are things that get done on the basis of that. You would never take a car to do emissions testing with new wheel bearings or brake pads and discs, for example. You’d take a car with 100,000km wheel bearings, or brake pads that are 10,000km old and callipers that are opened up so they don’t drag at all.
Vehicle/ Physics Matters

Quote:
4. Even those companies who have been loudly insisting their NOx testing is completely legitimate can have huge discrepancies between their test figures for CO2 and the real-world figures, with Archer claiming the gap is biggest at Mercedes-Benz, at well over 50 per cent.
“I am quite sure that other manufacturers are fitting some sorts of devices -- we just haven’t identified what they are.
“I don’t think they are doing anything quite as stupid as Volkswagen did. That’s the most extreme form of abusing the tests and was astonishingly naïve.
“They were desperately trying to break into the US with diesel. They had for two years tried to get these cars through the test system there without success.
Manufacturer's Stupidity


Green Line:
Quote:
1. “The companies with the lowest gap in CO2 to real-world tests are Fiat and Toyota, consistently, but I suspect only because they don’t make use of every flexibility they are offered.”
2. “The cleanest we have seen in the real-world meets its lab tests with a factor of 0.7 and, ironically, it’s a Golf 7, of all things.”
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Old 7th February 2016, 17:13   #767
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Uncertainty on the outcome of the scandal forces VW to postone earnings report.

Quote:
The postponements announced on Friday also highlighted how difficult it was for Volkswagen to calculate the cost of the scandal and prepare credible financial statements.
Quote:
“It shows that VW is very uncertain where to go from here,” said Ferdinand Dudenhöffer, a professor at the University of Duisburg-Essen. “They don’t know what to say to their shareholders.”
To complicate matters VW faces falling sales across the globe.

In the US-
Quote:
In January, the com In January, the company said sales of Volkswagen brand cars in the United States fell 15 percent
Germany-
Quote:
sales of VW brand cars fell 9 percent in January.
UK-
Quote:
Sales of new VW-branded vehicles fell 14% year on year in the UK last month
Quote:
Other brands owned by VW were also affected. Seat car sales fell 25%, while Skoda sales were down 2.4%. Audi sales, however, increased by 1.4%.
EU-
Quote:
In the European Union as a whole, the Volkswagen brand’s market share slipped to 11.5 percent in December from 12.6 percent in December 2014
Source - NYTimes
The Guardian
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Old 7th February 2016, 19:49   #768
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It will be contingent on the cal board accepting the proposal for 3L engines given last week.
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Old 15th February 2016, 21:29   #769
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacman2881 View Post
Uncertainty on the outcome of the scandal forces VW to postone earnings report.To complicate matters VW faces falling sales across the ...
A pity that VW - by general consensus - seems to have been elected the fall guy for malpractices which other mfrs have been indulging in earlier too - witness GM and their Tavera emission scandal a few years back in India itself!

It is the gigantic, global scale of the VW scandal which seems to have gripped the imagination of the car-buying public (as well as the EPA & other statory authorities round the globe).
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Old 17th February 2016, 20:16   #770
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I am not sure if this is already reported.
VW Cars' Emission Levels 9 Times More Than the Limit, Says Anant Geete
http://auto.ndtv.com/news/vw-cars-em...-geete-1278453

What does this really amount to? What will be the impact on the current car owners?
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Old 18th February 2016, 09:51   #771
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Now the ARAI reports 9x higher emissions. I hope they have their data right, else it may turn out to be another Maggi fiasco. Frankly either the VAG's fibbing has been going on for ages, else they should have no problems meeting BS-III/IV specs, which went out in Europe about a decade ago.
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Old 10th March 2016, 18:40   #772
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

According to this: Regulators EPA and California’s Air Resources Board (CARB) doubt if the VW diesels would be road-worthy even with the fixes proposed by VW:

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/03/...-can-be-fixed/

Quote:
VW’s US chief resigns, regulator raises doubts that diesels can be fixed
Quote:
On Wednesday afternoon, Volkswagen Group said that the head of the US branch of the company, Michael Horn, will be stepping down to "pursue other opportunities immediately,” according to the Wall Street Journal.
Quote:
On Tuesday, the chief of CARB’s enforcement division, Todd Sax, told state legislators that it “may not be possible” to fix VW’s diesels to the point where they are road-certifiable.
Quote:
Volkswagen’s worse-case scenario involves being forced to buy back the diesel vehicles with defeat devices from its customers, a course of action that a German newspaper reported that Volkswagen was coming to terms with earlier this year.
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Old 10th March 2016, 20:57   #773
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I have always suspected the fix which has been accepted in Germany. My predictions in life are never on target and in the unlikely event of my predictions being right I never document my predictions.

Not this time ... I have been spamming this thread with my doubts about the fixes. I too work on the same platform and the solutions are too vague to be taken seriously.

So much for German efficiency and work ethics. This scandal refuses to die down. Let's not forget that VW has postponed their annual financial statement. Which is a very big deal. VW will continue to pay a big price for not accepting the reality...

The latest update is in the link below.. Can someone summarise the contents in the video? It's not opening on my mobile..

http://calchannel.granicus.com/Media...7&clip_id=3430

Last edited by Zappo : 28th April 2016 at 20:27. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 21st April 2016, 07:19   #774
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

2106
Volkswagen stars in real-world NOx emissions tests - Air quality test measures real-world NOx emissions; many VW diesels receive top marks; Fiat 500X, SsangYong Korando and Audi A8 are poorly rated!

The first batch of data focusing on 440 cars - including 112 vehicles equipped with the latest diesel and petrol Euro 6 engines - shows that many models from within the Volkswagen Group have been given an 'A' rating, indicating they meet the required Euro 6 lab test limits.

Top-ranked petrol models include the Audi A1 (123bhp 1.4-litre), A3 (148bhp 1.4-litre), A4 (187bhp 2.0-litre), A5 (170bhp 1.8-litre) and RS3 (362bhp 2.5-litre), Seat Ibiza (108bhp 1.2-litre and 148bhp 1.4-litre) and Leon (148bhp and 150bhp 1.4-litre and 261bhp and 286bhp 2.0-litre), and Volkswagen Caddy (123bhp 1.4-litre) Golf (115bhp 1.0-litre, 138bhp 1.4-litre, 218bhp and 296bhp 2.0-litre) and Polo (89bhp 1.2-litre).

'A'-graded Euro 6 diesel models include the Audi A5 (161bhp 2.0-litre), Skoda Superb (148bhp 2.0-litre) and VW Golf SV (148bhp 2.0-litre), VW Passat (118bhp 1.6-litre), VW Scirocco (148bhp 2.0-litre) and VW Touran (108bhp 1.6-litre).

Other manufacturers with 'A' rated Euro 6 compliant petrols include: BMW, Citroën, Hyundai, Infiniti, Kia, Mercedes, Mini, Smart, Suzuki, Vauxhall and Volvo. BMW was the only non-VW Group manufacturer to score an 'A' rating with a diesel engine, with the 184bhp 2.0-litre unit powering the 3 Series.

Furthermore, three vehicles powered by Euro 6 diesel engines have so far been given an 'H' rating - indicating that they are emitting high levels of NOx up to 12 times the legal standard for Euro 6 compliancy. Those are the Fiat 500X (118bhp 1.6-litre diesel), SsangYong Korando (176bhp 2.2-litre diesel) and Audi A8 (247bhp 3.0-litre diesel). The lowest-rated petrol-powered car on the list was the Ford Focus (123bhp 1.0-litre), which received an 'E' rating, meaning it only meets Euro 3 standards.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...missions-tests

Last edited by volkman10 : 21st April 2016 at 07:21.
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Old 21st April 2016, 17:34   #775
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW rumoured to pay $5000 each to its affected buyers.

Quote:
If you were burned by Volkswagen's emissions cheating and don't think that $1,000 in credits and gift cards will cut it, we have good news for you... maybe. Die Welt sources understand that VW has reached a settlement deal with US officials that will have it pay affected diesel car owners $5,000 each to make up for misleading the public on the eco-friendliness of its vehicles. That's on top of what VW will have to pay to fix the cars in question. Provided the automaker gets the deal approved on April 21st (the deadline a court gave to agree on a fix), it'll avoid a trial that could easily have proven more costly.

VW tells us that it isn't commenting on the report at this time, so nothing has been confirmed just yet. If true, though, it'll represent one of the most expensive settlements in recent memory. Even if it covers only the half-million vehicles from the original recall, back-of-the-napkin math suggests that VW could pay $2.5 billion in the US alone. Combine that with complaints elsewhere in the world and the transportation giant is bound to regret ever playing fast and loose with emissions figures.
Source:
Settlement leak

Main source in German:
Settlement leak in German
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Old 22nd April 2016, 07:22   #776
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen Agrees To Buy Back Around 482,000 Diesel Cars in The U.S. reaches an agreement with the Department of Justice (Environmental Division), the Environment Protection Agency (EPA), and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) “with the full involvement of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC)."


Quote:
Approximately 482,000 Volkswagen and Audi vehicles powered by the 2.0 TDI engine from the EA189 family and sold in the U.S in the last few years can now be bought back by the company.
This is not all, as Volkswagen has also agreed to offer “substantial compensation” to the owners of said cars, regardless if they agree to sell their cars back or not.
Quote:
approximately 90,000 3.0 TDI vehicles from VW, Audi and Porsche are not being included in the agreement, meaning that their issues will be resolved at a later date.
Quote:
the carmaker is still facing several investigations in other countries, including Germany, not to mention tens of not even hundreds of-of class-action suits that are yet to reach full speed.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/vo...us-106776.html

Last edited by volkman10 : 22nd April 2016 at 07:24.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 18:27   #777
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More manufacturer's involved in emission scandal - German carmakers to recall 630,000 cars in Europe over emissions irregularities!

Porsche, Volkswagen, Opel, Audi and Mercedes vehicles to fix diesel emissions management software. The clampdown on pollution widens in the wake of the Volkswagen scandal.

Quote:
Today's recall is aimed to ensure that a legal loophole allowing manufacturers to throttle back emissions treatment systems under certain circumstances is tightened to make sure lower levels of pollution going forward, the government official said.
Daimler and Mitsubishi have similarly found themselves accused of possibly cheating on engine readings.

http://www.dw.com/en/german-carmaker...ies/a-19207717

Last edited by volkman10 : 22nd April 2016 at 18:29.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 18:50   #778
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Volkswagen Agrees To Buy Back Around 482,000 Diesel Cars in The U.S. reaches an agreement with the Department of Justice (Environmental Division), the Environment Protection Agency (EPA), and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) “with the full involvement of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC)."
Its a result of strong regulatory action, make no mistake. I doubt VW will give its European customers as fair a deal. The less said about VW's behavior in India, the better.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 22:50   #779
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Daimler opens internal emissions probe at U.S. request.

Quote:
Daimler said it is conducting an internal investigation of its certification process for diesel exhaust emissions in the United States at the request of the Justice Department.

Daimler has been under pressure since a lawsuit filed by U.S. Mercedes owners in February claimed that the brand’s diesel models violated emissions standards.
Quote:
In early April, owners of U.S. Mercedes diesel cars filed a new class action, saying the vehicles likely contained a "defeat device" to turn off a system meant to reduce polluting nitrogen oxides in its exhaust. U.S. law firm Hagens Berman said new tests had shown that Mercedes BlueTEC cars produced nitrogen oxide emissions in virtually all road tests that were far higher than in controlled lab tests.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...at-u-s-request
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Old 24th April 2016, 15:58   #780
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Just saw this in The Hindu newsletter in my mail today:-

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Ind...ign=Newsletter

So it appears that VW's troubles are far from over just yet. For such a blue chip brand to come to this.....
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