Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th September 2016, 07:22   #811
Senior - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,567
Thanked: 3,818 Times
Default VAG Emission Fraud - Engineers' heads roll

While the US Government and EPA still contend that the emission fraud perpetrated by the VAG group is not due to only rogue engineers (as alleged by VAG management), one engineer has pled guilty in the case.

As part of his plea agreement, this engineer will assist the government in their investigation, which will include the prosecution of others involved in the conspiracy.

While this might reek of scapegoating, it is also reason for optimism - with an insider helping the investigators, it should help them unravel this quicker, particularly the questions around who in management were aware of and signed off on these decisions.

Quote:
In a Detroit District Court today, 62-year-old engineer James Robert Liang pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the government, commit wire fraud, and violate the Clean Air Act. Liang ... worked for Volkswagen’s diesel development department in Wolfsburg, Germany from 1983 to 2008.
Quote:
...in 2006 Liang and others began building the EA 189 diesel engine that has been the center of the controversy. When the engineers realized they couldn’t meet consumer expectations and US air quality standards at the same time, they began looking into using illegal software (often known in the auto industry as a “defeat device”). By 2008, Liang worked to “calibrate and refine the defeat device.” Later that year, he moved to the US to help with “certification, testing, and warranty issues” for the company’s new diesels.

US prosecutors assert that when Liang and his fellow engineers met with the EPA regulators in 2007 in Michigan to describe the diesel technology that VW’s cars used, they never mentioned any software that enabled the cars’ emissions control systems during lab testing while reducing their efficacy during real-world driving.
The bit about increased warranty claims which I've emphasized in the below quote is telling - it indicates that running the engines in the less-polluting test mode is causing some failure over time. This in turn will bring into question both the short-term and long-term effectiveness of the fixes that VAG are implementing now, given that a more holistically designed engine and defeat device themselves couldn't avoid the issue.
Quote:
An interesting wrinkle in the prosecutors’ claims is that early VW diesel owners began experiencing problems with their emissions control systems as their vehicles grew older, causing increased warranty claims for the company. Allegedly, some of Liang’s peers thought this was because the cars weren’t switching over to the more-polluting “road mode” and were getting stuck in “testing mode,” in which the emissions control system was fully effective. “Liang worked with his co-conspirators to enhance the defeat device to allow the vehicle to more easily recognize when the vehicle was no longer in testing mode,” the plea agreement states.
Source: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09...sions-scandal/
arunphilip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2016, 08:04   #812
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 7,798
Thanked: 10,705 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Ironically VW has the cleanest Cleanest Euro 6 Diesels In Europe . Fiat (and Suzuki ) has the worst.

VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-11.png

The European Transport & Environment Commission has made a report that compares real world driving emissions to the Euro 6 standard for NOx (nitrogen oxide) emissions for diesel engines.


Quote:
Volkswagen seems to sell the cleanest Euro 6 diesels available in Europe. Even if they have the lowest NOx emissions average out of 230 diesel car models analyzed, the engines from Volkswagen still had twice as many nitrogen oxide emissions in real-world driving than the standard would allow.

Meanwhile, Fiat and Suzuki’s diesel engines had an average NOx emission level that was 15 times higher than the legal limit when compared on the road.

Renault-Nissan was the second-worst offender, while Opel-Vauxhall was third. Back in the lowest on the road emissions, Seat and Skoda ranked just after Volkswagen, but ahead of Audi, BMW-MINI, and Mazda
Quote:
French roads have the largest number of “dirty” diesels, which 5.5 million estimated units, followed closely by Germany with 5.3 million. The United Kingdom comes in third with 4.3 million, while Italy is fourth with 3.1 million.

Spain and Belgium fared better, as both have less than two million “dirty” diesels on their roads, according to estimates made by Transport & Environment.
Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 20th September 2016 at 08:08.
volkman10 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2016, 08:19   #813
Senior - BHPian
 
carwatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bardez, Goa
Posts: 1,105
Thanked: 869 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

The efforts of VW have won them an IgNobel Cemistry Prize too.
carwatcher is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2016, 16:40   #814
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: mum,lko,kolkata
Posts: 530
Thanked: 521 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default Re: VAG Emission Fraud - Engineers' heads roll

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
While the US Government and EPA still contend that the emission fraud perpetrated by the VAG group is not due to only rogue engineers (as alleged by VAG management), one engineer has pled guilty in the case.
As part of his plea agreement, this engineer will assist the government in their investigation, which will include the prosecution of others involved in the conspiracy.
While this might reek of scapegoating, it is also reason for optimism - with an insider helping the investigators, it should help them unravel this quicker, particularly the questions around who in management were aware of and signed off on these decisions.
The bit about increased warranty claims which I've emphasized in the below quote is telling - it indicates that running the engines in the less-polluting test mode is causing some failure over time. This in turn will bring into question both the short-term and long-term effectiveness of the fixes that VAG are implementing now, given that a more holistically designed engine and defeat device themselves couldn't avoid the issue.
Source: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09...sions-scandal/
Deeply intriguing! What extra-ordinary deviousness the criminal mind - not withstanding their brilliant engineering rascality! - will resort to in order to win. And to see them still squirming & wriggling to find a way out despite having been caught wearing the emperor's new clothes! One doesn't know whether to laugh at the spectacle of the mighty having fallen so low - or to feel astonished at the temerity & arrogance of the Teutonic mind-set - "ours is the only right way to build a car!" as I recall reading elsewhere in the press blizzard following the bursting of the scam bubble.
shashanka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2016, 21:14   #815
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,992
Thanked: 5,039 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
The efforts of VW have won them an IgNobel Cemistry Prize too.
Nobody from the company turned up to accept the award.
Thad E Ginathom is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th October 2016, 13:00   #816
Senior - BHPian
 
msdivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,404
Thanked: 733 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
The efforts of VW have won them an IgNobel Cemistry Prize too.
Here is the citation:
"CHEMISTRY PRIZE: Winner Volkswagen [GERMANY], for solving the problem of excessive automobile pollution emissions by automatically, electromechanically producing fewer emissions whenever the cars are being tested."

Link: http://www.improbable.com/ig/winners/
msdivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2016, 07:22   #817
Distinguished - BHPian
 
deetjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kochi
Posts: 3,500
Thanked: 5,220 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

So, who made money with Dieselgate? And the obvious answer is - the lawyers!

Quote:
Volkswagen Group has agreed to pay $175 million to U.S. lawyers representing 475,000 owners affected by the Dieselgate scandal.

Thatís a lot of money, but itís just a fraction of the $332.5 million lawyers were seeking back in August to cover fees and costs concerning the settlement between Volkswagen and owners trying to sell back their emissions-cheating diesels.
Source
deetjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2016, 12:49   #818
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 7,798
Thanked: 10,705 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW's 'dieselgate' Status,

VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-1.jpg

Source- VW news
volkman10 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2016, 21:45   #819
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 7,798
Thanked: 10,705 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW's $14.7 billion court settlement over diesel vehicles approved by U.S. judge!

Quote:
A federal judge today approved Volkswagen AG's record-setting $14.7 billion settlement with regulators and owners of 475,000 polluting diesel vehicles, and the German automaker said it would begin buying back the vehicles in mid-November.
Source

Last edited by volkman10 : 25th October 2016 at 21:47.
volkman10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2016, 01:02   #820
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai/BLR/USA
Posts: 918
Thanked: 173 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Looks like the settlement is not over for VW now its an Audi in question !

U.S. regulator found another cheat device in Audi car: report

A U.S. regulator found software in some Audi vehicles that lowered their carbon dioxide emissions if it detected they were being used under test conditions, Bild am Sonntag reported.
The California Air Resources Board (CARB) discovered the software in an automatic transmission Audi last summer, the German weekly newspaper said, without citing any sources.
CARB and Audi declined to comment on Sunday's Bild am Sonntag report.
The paper said the device, which was not the same as the one which triggered last year's diesel emissions scandal at Audi parent Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE), was also used in diesel and gasoline-powered cars in Europe.
VW's admission that it had installed software that deactivated pollution controls on more than 11 million diesel vehicles sold worldwide, triggered the deepest business crisis in the German carmaker's history.
Audi, the main contributor to VW group profit, has also admitted its 3.0 liter V6 diesel engine was fitted with emissions-control software.
Bild am Sonntag said the software discovered by CARB, which was installed in vehicles with certain automatic transmissions, detected whether a car's steering wheel was turned.
If it was not, indicating laboratory testing conditions, the software turned on a gear-shifting program which produced less carbon dioxide than in normal road driving. If the wheel was turned in any direction by more than 15 degrees, the program was switched off, the paper said.
Audi stopped using the software in May 2016, just before CARB discovered the manipulation in an older model, the paper said, adding that the carmaker had suspended several engineers in connection with the matter.
tj123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2016, 09:23   #821
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 7,798
Thanked: 10,705 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Renault referred to prosecutors over diesel emissions.

Renault is so far the only automaker after Volkswagen Group to be referred for possible criminal investigation in France.

Quote:
Renault faces a criminal investigation over its diesel emissions after French officials passed a file to prosecutors detailing suspicions that the automaker's engine technologies broke the law.
Quote:
It is now up to the courts to determine what further action to take over the suspected breaches,
Source
volkman10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2016, 21:03   #822
BHPian
 
shinuak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bangalore / Tvm
Posts: 136
Thanked: 64 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I have an appointment with Vinayak Skoda tomorrow for the software update to be done on my car to meet the emission norms. I have been assured by the Service guy that this update will not result in any power / torque drop at any rpms but will only reduce emission levels. I took it with a pinch of salt and the enthusiast in me is very skeptical. But I guess I will go ahead and get this done as the environmentalist in me got better of the enthusiast. Even if nominal, I think we should do whatever possible from our end. Anyway will post my observation post the update.

Last edited by shinuak : 12th November 2016 at 21:03. Reason: Spelling correction
shinuak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2016, 21:45   #823
BHPian
 
newtonMeter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 482
Thanked: 313 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinuak View Post
I have an appointment with Vinayak Skoda tomorrow for the software update to be done on my car to meet the emission norms. I have been assured by the Service guy that this update will not result in any power / torque drop at any rpms but will only reduce emission levels. I took it with a pinch of salt and the enthusiast in me is very skeptical. But I guess I will go ahead and get this done as the environmentalist in me got better of the enthusiast. Even if nominal, I think we should do whatever possible from our end. Anyway will post my observation post the update.
whats the report? did you feel any change in the car? what were the steps taken?
newtonMeter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2016, 12:32   #824
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 7,798
Thanked: 10,705 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen updates carbon dioxide emissions ratings.

In the wake of Volkswagen's emissions scandal, the firm has updated the CO2 ratings for many of its cars including the Polo, Golf, Passat and Touareg.

Quote:
The biggest alteration noted is the Golf 1.6 TDI with manual gearbox. It’s been updated from 99g/km to 103g/km. A Polo 1.0 MPI 60’s CO2 emissions are now rated at 108g/km where they were previously 106g/km.
Source

Last edited by volkman10 : 14th November 2016 at 12:33.
volkman10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2016, 19:03   #825
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 7,798
Thanked: 10,705 Times
Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen to withdraw diesels from US market, Mercedes-Benz could follow.

Quote:
German newspaper Handelblatt reports that the automotive giant has made the decision to withdraw its diesel offerings, contrary to previous reports that Volkswagen executives indicated TDI models may come back to the States for the one or two years leading up to the new, stricter diesel laws.

Meanwhile, luxury marque Mercedes-Benz is also considering dropping its diesel-powered models in the US citing dwindling demand.
Link
volkman10 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Emission Monitoring Solution (EMO) to monitor Emission data in real time NPV Technical Stuff 1 3rd November 2015 21:28
OBD2(VAG-COM) cable + workshop manual saraf_suman Technical Stuff 13 10th October 2013 12:16
VAG-COM Setup needed! Akki_5 Technical Stuff 11 28th August 2010 02:43
cheap VAG-COM cables from Ebay? saraf_suman Modifications & Accessories 3 26th July 2008 02:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:55.

Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks