Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd September 2015, 19:10   #106
BHPian
 
ShaileshHinge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 151
Thanked: 132 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

If they did this USA, i feel every vehicle in India( not just VW) must be faking Euro 4 certifications . I just lost trust and faith in a major brand here.
On a lighter note - is there a discount on passat announced just yet?
ShaileshHinge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 19:11   #107
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,127
Thanked: 651 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

So much for the vaunted German integrity.

I remember pushing the Hurricane Katrina debacle in the face of my American friends at the time.

Crooks and cheats know no nationality.
Sawyer is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 19:21   #108
BHPian
 
cs_rajesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 143
Thanked: 79 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by csnanjappa View Post
There might be bigger conspiracy
I have the same feeling from yesterday. Just recently VW captured no 1 in worldwide beating toyota and the news that this software workaround has been used since 2009 and remained undetected for several years. Cannot be a simple co-incidence would it be? Look at the story: http://fortune.com/2015/09/21/volksw...-testing-golf/
The duo Peter Mock and John German a.k.a. clean air crusaders wanted to gather evidence and prove to "skeptical Europeans that it’s possible for diesel cars to run clear". But the evidence turned out to be pointing to straight opposite fact. Something says perhaps this finding was used by VW competitors to its complete effect.
cs_rajesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 19:26   #109
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 197
Thanked: 208 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

From this Q&A:
Quote:
Is the scandal limited to VW in the US?

Possibly not. The news knocked billions of pounds off the value of other carmakers amid concern that rigging emissions tests is common across the industry.
This may well be relevant to the Indian car scene, and to manufacturers other than VW/Audi/Skoda (the latter being a VW group member present in India but not in the US).
rsidd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 20:16   #110
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 1,140
Thanked: 781 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by epuneet View Post
It seems from the posts & various articles that while the cars did have the tech to reduce emissions, it would activate only under test conditions. So my question is: Why did VW choose to deactivate the tech in real life driving conditions when you've already put it in the cars? OR did VW not have the emissions reduction tech in the cars & instead the software just used to fudge the emissions data - how's that even possible? Would'nt the test also take emission samples from the exhaust pipe?
Well this is my understanding of how VW scammed the EPA:

Most emission tests are conducted in lab conditions on a dyno in an attempt to replicate the outside environment.

Q1: How does the car change its mapping or know a test is being conducted?
A: The test is conducted on the drive wheels, i.e in the accused cars they were front wheel drive. So on the dyno the front wheels are on rollers while the rear wheels are latched on and stationary. So when the car notices this, its ECU switches to a Dyno mode or Test mode mapping.

Q2: Why not use the trick mapping for regular driving?
A: The mapping is designed for one primary purpose, restrict CO2 and particulate emissions to the bare minimum. This could involve restricting fuel supply or changing mixtures etc... but the mapping will affect drive-ability in real world conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
I have always had a prejudice against dirty, smelly Diesel engines. This just reinforces my prejudice. Would be really surprised if VW were the only manufacturer faking results - the odds are high that more skeletons will tumble out. If that kills the diesel revolution (triggered by obsession with CO2 emissions despite diesels emitting much more particulates which are far more harmful), that would be great. Frankly, in India, where particulate matter concentrations are insanely high, a complete ban on diesels for cars and massive restrictions on diesel trucks entering cities is needed
I have been the exact opposite. Since the advent of common rail I have enjoyed the torque on diesel engines and the mileage it provides. All of a sudden in real world conditions diesels offered more grunt and appreciably better fuel efficiency. Then the proclamation they were cleaner as well when everyone was obsessed with CO2 sealed my vote.

Also, the premise that diesel is the villain of this story is wrong. Emission norms are hardest in the US and the only way to bypass this was using Ad-blue on cars. VW somehow bypassed this and kept claiming it was because of their engineering skills. VW broke the law, diesel did not.

But you are correct the tide is turning against diesel and this scam will only speeden up proceedings. Particulate emissions and the advent of direct injection/turbocharging in petrols means that game has significantly moved on. Diesel is still dominant in Europe and Asia but it will die a gradual death.

I will truly miss all that torque!
shortbread is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 20:18   #111
BHPian
 
landcruiser123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: BLR, KA, IND
Posts: 651
Thanked: 745 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

So much for German engineering. SHAME on VW.
Wonder how many more countries will start checking VW cars?

Good thing is, India has very less VW cars compared to other brands.
And we have less cars with the 2.0 diesel.
landcruiser123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 20:24   #112
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 1,140
Thanked: 781 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Hope this helps explain things:

shortbread is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 20:34   #113
Senior - BHPian
 
S_U_N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,761
Thanked: 365 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW pulled off a big one!
Some disgruntled employee probably revealed the secrets?
Still, my question is: How harmful are the emissions of those cars compared to those who passed the test? Slightly more? Significantly more? Outright dangerous?
S_U_N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 20:39   #114
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 66
Thanked: 39 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

GM was already caught in india branding BS II engines as BS III and selling them.

I see that many European countries will be looking at this opportunity to get back at Germany via broader investigations.

All that apart, in a hypothetical question if Our current gen DDiS powered Swift has to pass an equivalent testing/regulation will it require significant changes?
I know it not required as of today for India, but then some versions of this car is sold in Europe at least.
CarJunki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 20:53   #115
BHPian
 
VIPER_SRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 432
Thanked: 170 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
Some disgruntled employee probably revealed the secrets?
Its interesting how this scandal came to light!

"When the International Council on Clean Transportation began to look into discrepancies in the emissions of several Volkswagen diesel vehicles in early 2014, it was with the sincerest of intentions. Noting that the U.S. had stricter and more rigorously enforced emissions laws that Volkswagen’s TDI-equipped cars routinely passed without problems, the ICCT figured performing some tests on U.S. soil would provide them with a good control model. Enlisting the help of West Virginia University’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines, and Emissions (CAFEE) to assist with the real-world testing, it seemed the data would soon reveal the root of the inconsistencies. But when the results gathered via real-world testing were compared with the compliant numbers generated in the lab by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), it was clear something wasn’t kosher in dieselburg."

Source:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-vol...ons-standards/
VIPER_SRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 21:19   #116
Senior - BHPian
 
itwasntme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: BANGALORE
Posts: 1,835
Thanked: 869 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
So much for the vaunted German integrity.

I remember pushing the Hurricane Katrina debacle in the face of my American friends at the time.

Crooks and cheats know no nationality.
Agreed. This time the vaunted Das Auto will get hammered where it hurts: on their INTEGRITY. This is VW and not some third rate Longwind or crappy Chinese company that we are talking about! VW are THE titans of corporate governance, integrity, sterling technical rigidity and documentation (if not ability too).

For them to publicly disclose that they have brilliantly and skillfully engineered a 'defeat device' to consciously break a US EPA testing method is extraordinary! Its equal to Obama turning out to be a closet gun enthusiast or Bill Clinton being proved impotent.

There has been a few posts that imply that we have jumped to conclusions too quickly. I disagree, there is simply too much evident material to conclusively prove that this was an carefully planned, orchestrated, prolonged and brilliantly coordinated effort. This is no 'jugaad' initiative.

I hope they get jammed and jammed badly. Personally speaking, nothing gets to me more than being conned by a MNC, and one that prides and preaches corporate governance.

The UK has a piquant issue - they tax cars based on CO2 emissions. What is the guarantee that these have not been tampered with? Will UK VW owners now be liable for any tamper tax backdated to when they bought the car? Also, while emission levels mean nothing to most of us, many UK buyers are very very committed to the green ideal. For THEM to learn that they MAY have been conned is next to treason, being VW! If anyone thinks I'm going overboard, please read some of the comments: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34322961

Sorry for the rant but this situation is terrible! Hope this is sorted out soon and the guilty get severely punished.

Last edited by itwasntme : 22nd September 2015 at 21:23. Reason: URL
itwasntme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 21:31   #117
BHPian
 
VIPER_SRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 432
Thanked: 170 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

Last edited by GTO : 25th September 2015 at 15:07.
VIPER_SRT is offline   Reply With Quote Received Infraction
Old 22nd September 2015, 21:45   #118
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 13,764
Thanked: 16,897 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I had been asking myself this a few days back when this article came out.

Why does this apply only to VW USA? It's not like their emission standards are much tighter than the europe/UK. I was thinking that Europe/UK might actually have tighter emissions. So if VW did this in USA then what about other countries?

Looks like my apprehensions are true:

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-admit...s-s-1732283322

This is a global scam and VW has cheated the public in the biggest way possible.
Vid6639 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 22:08   #119
BHPian
 
cs_rajesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 143
Thanked: 79 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Saw this FAQ on Financial Times website.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/bed2d...26830d644.html
In 1998, EPA has fined auto manufacturers on similar accounts of evasion by including defeat devices in the software monitoring the emissions of heavy trucks.

http://www2.epa.gov/enforcement/detr...ine-settlement
cs_rajesh is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2015, 22:14   #120
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 13,764
Thanked: 16,897 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

So VW did this with 11 million engines globally and now looks like the CEO Winterkorn will be replaced by Porsche CEO Matthias Mueller.

What's more suspicious is VW deleting all VW diesel ads from youtube.

http://jalopnik.com/why-did-volkswag...-yo-1731691453
Vid6639 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Emission Monitoring Solution (EMO) to monitor Emission data in real time NPV Technical Stuff 1 3rd November 2015 21:28
OBD2(VAG-COM) cable + workshop manual saraf_suman Technical Stuff 13 10th October 2013 12:16
VAG-COM Setup needed! Akki_5 Technical Stuff 11 28th August 2010 02:43
cheap VAG-COM cables from Ebay? saraf_suman Modifications & Accessories 3 26th July 2008 02:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:58.

Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks