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Old 19th September 2015, 06:01   #1
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Default VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

As per following article in CNET, US EPA claims that Audi and Volkswagen used illegal Emission control software for getting its diesel vehicle pass the required test. As per the article, the software detects when the car is going through emission control test and turns full emission controls on while connected to testing machine and returns to normal mode once disconnected from the testing machine. If proven, Volkswagen is looking at penalties up to $18 billions. Here is the link:

http://flip.it/yaxzU

EDIT: Adding this spoof ! Thanks to Sourav9385 for sharing:


Last edited by GTO : 22nd September 2015 at 11:50. Reason: Adding video :)
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Old 19th September 2015, 06:47   #2
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Here's the official EPA (US Environmental Protection Agency) letter to the VAG group: http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf

The NY Times also reports that this will result in a recall of 500,000 vehicles in the US: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/bu...-software.html

This covers VW and Audi models using their 2.0 liter diesel engines. While the NY Times article also has some more detail, here are some excerpts:

Quote:
The Environmental Protection Agency accused the German automaker of using software to detect when the car is undergoing its periodic state emissions testing. Only during such tests are the cars’ full emissions control systems turned on. During normal driving situations, the controls are turned off, allowing the cars to spew as much as 40 times as much pollution as allowed under the Clean Air Act, the E.P.A. said.

Agency officials issued the car company a notice of violation and said it had admitted to the use of a so-called defeat device. The recall involves 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15.

Affected diesel models include the 2009-15 Volkswagen Jetta, 2009-15 Beetle, 2009-15 Golf, 2014-15 Passat and 2009-15 Audi A3.
Excerpts from the EPA letter below:
VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-vag1.gif
VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-vag2.gif
VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-vag3.gif
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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
This is staggering news given the sheer audacity of the exercise, the volumes involved and the fact that this is the workhorse 2 litre diesel engine used across VAG.
But one that rivals GM faking emission tests in India : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ts-tavera.html (General Motors India recalls 1.14 lakh units of the Tavera)

Last edited by arunphilip : 19th September 2015 at 07:12. Reason: Reply to 'itwasntme'
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Old 19th September 2015, 06:59   #3
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

This is staggering news given the sheer audacity of the exercise, the volumes involved and the fact that this is the workhorse 2 litre diesel engine used across VAG. Frankly makes all other corporate 'lies' like the GM ignition switch case, Takata airbag case, Firestone rollover case etc seem small!
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Old 19th September 2015, 09:27   #4
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Some genius figured out how to game the system many years ago, and potentially made these guys millions of dollars in extra income.

Hopefully this will also lead to enhancement & changes in the emission testing bringing in some variations or randomization so that the test cannot be identified by an onboard system.
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Old 19th September 2015, 11:26   #5
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This had the potential to destroy VAG groups diesel engine based passenger car business. If the finding is true it is truly staggering. Wonder of the scene is no different with VAG groups Indian cars including Jetta, A4, Laura and Octavias.
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Old 19th September 2015, 12:17   #6
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

It looks like they are liable for over $18 Billion in Fines and Fees!
If you just count the tax credit they have to return its $626,000,000.

18 Billion is like 8% of their yearly revenue, and twice their yearly profit.
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Old 19th September 2015, 12:53   #7
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

The fact that software could be used to game the system was known ages ago, back then it was another VAG brand, Porsche. The reality is that emission norms are tested in conditions that have no relation to real world usage patterns, most tests suggest fuel economy ratings that are 40% more than what is realistically possible. Consumers should be compensated for the information about fuel economy that the EPA puts out.

The EPA is the same organization that dumped toxic waste into a river and being a typical government agency, no one was held responsible. The law is that cars that are sold in the USA have to be certified by the EPA and pass the standard emission test, the cars in question have and their emissions in real world usage will vary, only a government agency can convert their own stupidity into a humongous shakedown. How is this 18 billion figure calculated?

40 times the permissible level is hyperbole, that happens when you are stuck in a traffic jam with your air conditioning on and move about 2 km in an hour, I guess that is not how emissions are calculated.
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Old 19th September 2015, 15:00   #8
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Interesting. The VW group petrol engines for eg: have active cylinder management technology (ACT) which can shut off 2 cylinders to save fuel when the car detects certain driving conditions. So, what is wrong with any software that detects when the engine is operating under certain low load conditions and correspondingly tries to save fuel and reduce emissions? Isn't that really what a good engine management software must do?
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Old 19th September 2015, 16:26   #9
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohitm View Post
This had the potential to destroy VAG groups diesel engine based passenger car business.
It will also destroy the perception of diesels in the USA. Diesel offerings were just about picking up in the recent past with the German biggies launching oil-burners in so many cars. News such as this will put the 'bad polluter' tag back on diesels.

It just sucks that USA & China - the two biggest car markets in the world - are obsessed with petrols. Why? Because for diesel-lovers like us, it restricts the pace of R&D in diesels. As an example, hybrids probably would have never picked up as they did if it weren't for the Prius' popularity in the USA.

It also restricts the models. Why is there no Toyota Camry Diesel? Or Honda Accord Diesel? Because these built-for-USA cars don't need a diesel in the States.

Back to the main topic, SHAME ON VW for cheating. This is simply unacceptable behaviour from one of the world's biggest car makers.
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Old 19th September 2015, 17:24   #10
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
How is this 18 billion figure calculated?
I'm guessing $37,500 fine on each vehicle to-be recalled i.e. 4,82,000 cars = 18.075 billion!
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Old 19th September 2015, 17:30   #11
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

If this is indeed true, this is stunning. Due to VW owning so many companies, this 2 litre diesel can be found in a huge number of cars.

And as for how the amount is calculated,I believe the EPA is levying a fine of $37,500 for every violating car sold, thus bringing the total to 18 billion.
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Old 19th September 2015, 17:48   #12
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
So, what is wrong with any software that detects when the engine is operating under certain low load conditions and correspondingly tries to save fuel and reduce emissions? Isn't that really what a good engine management software must do?
But it seems to have done just the opposite when it came to the diesels and I quote "The New York Times reports that four-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi 20092015 diesel models were actually spewing more pollution than official testing revealed. The cars' software was set up to detect regulatory evaluations and turn on the full emission control system for the duration of the test. When the cars actually hit the road, though, the software knew to turn the framework off."
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Old 19th September 2015, 18:00   #13
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Extremely disappointing actions from a company as large and reputable as VW.

Does this mean that the power figures of the cars will be lower post recall calibration, to comply with the emission norms, or will the fuel efficiency drop?

I am sure there are other companies involved too. Investigation teams need to dig deeper.
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Old 19th September 2015, 18:16   #14
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Not just a fine. I would even ask VW to fix the emission issue immediately for new models and also do whatever they can to fix the cars they have already sold.
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Old 19th September 2015, 19:40   #15
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Is this likely to make ARAI retest and re-homologate the 2.0 TDI in India? After the infamous GM India emissions massaging fiasco, VW India had better be careful.

To refresh everyone:http://m.timesofindia.com/business/i...w/24502650.cms

Remember Karl Slym?

Last edited by itwasntme : 19th September 2015 at 19:43. Reason: Typo
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