Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th November 2015, 22:50   #1
BHPian
 
vijjuvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 47
Thanked: 54 Times
Default 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Talking about safety, the new Honda Jazz gets a 5 star Euro NCAP rating. Now thats what you call 'safety'. While I understand that the same might not be applicable for Indian Jazz, the ratings should be in the same range.

Source:
http://www.cardekho.com/india-car-ne...ings-16929.htm

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...uro-ncap-tests
vijjuvk is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2015, 23:07   #2
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Rajeevraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,261
Thanked: 8,051 Times
Default 2015 Honda Jazz (Europe) gets 5 Stars from Euro NCAP Crash Tests

The 2015 Honda Jazz has been tested by Euro NCAP and gets the full 5 stars. Tests include frontal impact at 64 km/h, with 40% of the width of the car striking a deformable barrier. In the full width test, 100% of the width of the car the car goes into a rigid barrier at 50 km/h. In the side impact test, a mobile deformable barrier impacts the driver’s door at 50 km/h. Lastly, the car is propelled sideways at 32 km/h into a rigid pole in the pole test.

Important to note that this is not the car sold in India. The European Jazz comes with a host of safety features including 6 airbags, The Jazz features Honda’s City-Brake Active system (CTBA) fitted as standard across the range. By using laser technology, the CTBA system scans the road ahead and automatically applies the brakes if a low speed collision is likely. The mid and high grades on both models feature Honda’s Advanced Driver Assist System (ADAS), a suite of active-safety technologies including Forward Collision Warning, Traffic Sign Recognition System, Intelligent Speed Limiter, Lane Departure Warning and High-beam Support System.


Attached PDF has the full test report. In addition to the Jazz, the Honda HR-V and Audi A4 were also tested and both were awarded 5 stars.

Although we don't get all these safety features in India, wonder if the body strength/Structure matches the international versions.

euroncap-2015-honda-jazz-datasheet-pdf.pdf

Source: Paultan

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 4th November 2015 at 23:10. Reason: Adding Source Info
Rajeevraj is offline   (11) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2015, 23:21   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,728
Thanked: 4,700 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

"But when I tapped the metal of the door I heard a 'ting' sound instead of a 'tong' sound, so obviously this car is crappy compared to <my favourite brand>. I obviously know what I'm talking about because I'm the world's foremost armchair metallurgist!"
</sarcasm>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Important to note that this is not the car sold in India. The European Jazz comes with a host of safety features <snip>
Indulging in the favourite pastime: kerb weight of the tested car is 1100 kg (1.3L Comfort variant which is the top-end), in India the 1.2 petrol top-end is 1044 kg (manual) and 1066 kg (CVT). Given the extra kit and associated weight for the Euro version, it seems like we're getting the same structure here, so that's excellent news.

Looking at the PDF report, occupant safety is rated either green (good) or yellow (adequate) for all occupants, which is again excellent news!

Last edited by arunphilip : 4th November 2015 at 23:22. Reason: Added sarcasm tag
arunphilip is offline   (11) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 00:00   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
carwatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bardez, Goa
Posts: 1,185
Thanked: 999 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Not questioning your intentions but is it so difficult for manufacturers to come out with a statement like, "The cars sold in India are exactly of the same structural quality as are build and sold elsewhere including Europe."

Rather than...

"Our cars are manufactured in accordance with the prevailing rules and regulations in the Indian market."

And they also didn't waste half of a second and came up with a large 'in your face' sticker displaying 5-Stars even on the base variant, earned for safety elsewhere. When they can do this, they are certainly capable of doing that (issuing statement) also.

We all know that they are not NGOs but they are not ethical either and I am talking about ALL the manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Indulging in the favourite pastime: kerb weight of the tested car is 1100 kg (1.3L Comfort variant which is the top-end), in India the 1.2 petrol top-end is 1044 kg (manual) and 1066 kg (CVT). Given the extra kit and associated weight for the Euro version, it seems like we're getting the same structure here, so that's excellent news.

Last edited by carwatcher : 5th November 2015 at 00:27.
carwatcher is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 00:06   #5
BHPian
 
WRXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 253
Thanked: 290 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by vijjuvk View Post
Talking about safety, the new Honda Jazz gets a 5 star Euro NCAP rating. Now thats what you call 'safety'. While I understand that the same might not be applicable for Indian Jazz, the ratings should be in the same range.

Source:
http://www.cardekho.com/india-car-ne...ings-16929.htm

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...uro-ncap-tests
I don't know how long I can do this
Is this Jazz which got Euro NCAP 5 star an India built one and made for Indian market (No right)? And speculating that ratings should be "in the same range" is what 8 pages of discussions did on this thread. I think this means nothing. Because various cars built for the European markets do get 5* ratings but the same cars when made for India failed the test. I don't see how, for an India built Jazz this will magically gain exception without going through an actual crash test.
WRXXX is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 00:34   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,471
Thanked: 19,381 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Just a point to note vs the Indian Jazz. From the PDF of Euro NCAP the kerb weight of the UK Jazz was 1100kgs. In comparison the Indian one is 1040kilos for the petrol. That's a 70 kilo weight difference. Engines are similar because the 1.2L in India is nothing but the 1.3L UK engine with reduced stroke.

The UK jazz also gets the following extra features which Indian one misses. Each of these features is a critical factor in the 5 star. Without even 1 of them the 5 star rating is not possible.

1. 6 airbags
2. Seat belt pre tensioner
3. ESC (Electronic stability control)
4. AEB (Autonomous emergency braking)
5. Speed assistance system
6. Lane departure warning

None of the above will add up to 70 additional kilos. Safe to say just like the Ecosport, the Indian Jazz has some substantial weight reduction vs the UK one.
Vid6639 is offline   (24) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 10:59   #7
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,749
Thanked: 89,389 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Just a point to note vs the Indian Jazz. From the PDF of Euro NCAP the kerb weight of the UK Jazz was 1100kgs. In comparison the Indian one is 1040kilos for the petrol.
The UK Brochure lists the weight range as 1066 - 1113. The UK S variant weighs 1066 kilos while the Indian S variant weighs 1040. For the 26 kilo additional weight, the UK S variant gets:

1.3L engine
6 Airbags (Indian S variant gets none)
ABS
ESP / VSA
City-Brake active system
Magic Seats
Rear wiper & washer
Cruise Control
Tilt & telescopic steering
Auto headlamps & washers
LED DRLs
Electrically adjustable ORVMs
And more.

All of the above items add a couple of kilos here & there. For once, I'll say that the build quality difference between the Indian & European version doesn't seem to be worth noting. And certainly not as extreme as in the case of the EcoSport!

Here's more - The difference between the Indian top-end MT & UK top-end MT is merely 22 kilos!

Last edited by GTO : 5th November 2015 at 11:00.
GTO is offline   (17) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 11:06   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
adimicra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,558
Thanked: 1,058 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Cross posting from Jazz thread -
"
From UK Honda site, the lowest variant of Jazz weighs 1066 kgs.
From Honda India site, the lowest variant with ABS and airbags (SV) weighs 1042 kgs.

The lowest UK version comes with 6 airbags, has a slightly bigger engine (1.3L vs 1.2L) and is 40 mm longer along with other additional features.
So, looks like Honda has not compromised on the structural components of the car for India. This is just an educated guess which is the best we can do in the absence of crash tests for Indian cars.

Last edited by adimicra : 5th November 2015 at 11:07.
adimicra is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 14:10   #9
BHPian
 
harpreetkanwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 92
Thanked: 45 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Such articles should also carry information that it is only for the EUROPEAN MODEL explicitly ? Why misguide people !

The structural strength has nothing to do when you are going to hit the steering wheel/dashboard, side rails or front seats (while seated in the back).

VW POLO had the same car that got ZERO stars and similar posts were made where people 'thought' structural strength of POLO should have given it some protection.

'Structural strength' might ensure your car stays in one piece, but inertia will cause damage to you and even the seat belt that's trying to hold you would do some damage as it presses against your body -> hence seat belt airbags are added in SAFER Cars.

Also -> the accident avoidance system as posted by many is also taken into account.

The Indian spec car would not do well on such grounds even with the presence of front airbags. The POLO managed to get 4 stars after they started putting 2 airbags as standard, but those 4 STARS are not reflective of side impacts, collision prevention technology, etc.

In an accident - the car stops - but everything else including you is moving. That is what causes injuries/death. Even with seatbelts and airbags your brain might be subject to brain hemorrhage with the impact - the seatbelt might rupture your internals. There's a very nice video which quotes all that I'm saying, youtube it. It shows in slow motion all that happens in a car with airbags/seatbelts etc.

STRUCTURAL STRENGTH will lessen the impact but inertia is always going to be a bi***.

Hope that clears.

Last edited by harpreetkanwar : 5th November 2015 at 14:25.
harpreetkanwar is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 14:37   #10
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mysore/Dharwad
Posts: 92
Thanked: 111 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Everybody is talking about weight difference.. but what about the extra 40 mm length of European car?
If i remember correctly, the euro and US versions of jazz come with larger beefed up bumpers which aid a lot in crash protection. Previously there was a image shared on team bhp showing the bumpers of swift and punto. I expect a similar difference between indian and euro jazz
i_see is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 15:46   #11
BHPian
 
prakhar1998's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 288
Thanked: 494 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Lets get a few things cleared.
We, as the uninformed public have no idea at all as to whether our cars are as safe as their "developed" nations counterparts.

We certainly can't judge the same by using imprecise measures like Kerb weight. A better quality welding and better structural components doesn't imply that weight has been added. Also, a lighter car, even if its the same model doesn't imply that the heavier one is safer.

Just by going through the comparison b/w the Indian Swift and the European Swift one can find out that the Indian one is substantially heavier, yet it scored much worse as opposed to the European one. Similar is the case with the India made Grand i10 that failed crash tests as structurally unsafe in Argentina.

Now coming to what we do know. We do know that the India made VW Polo and the Ford Figo are structurally sound because they have proven themselves in the GNCAP tests. From this, we can or cannot make an assumption that all cars from these two brands are equally safe as there international counterparts. Rational thinking suggests that these two brands can be trusted in terms of structural stability, but well, there is no end to skepticism.

Instead of turning a blind eye and assuming that manufacturers car a good deal about us, I believe full information is what we need to acquire. Alas, right now, our hands are tied down. Hopefully, things will soon get more transparent. BNCAP needs to be here sooner.
prakhar1998 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 16:30   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EU - Nordic
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 953 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

I think using car weight specifications from different countries to compare structural rigidity/build quality will probably lead to wrong conclusions. We have no idea how or with what assumptions manufacturers specify car weights.

For eg: Skoda UK website lists the kerb weight of Octavia 2.0L diesel DSG model as 1257kg for all trim levels(link). Skoda Finland website specifies the kerb weight of the same car as 1352 kg "for standard model". I know that this includes the weight of the driver (calculated as 75kg), but even taking that out, the weight comes to 1277kg, so 20kg heavier than UK spec. So, Danger-1: Specs are not directly comparable as there may be some underlying assumptions in different countries.

Digging a bit deeper, Skoda UK website lists the same kerb weight for the DSG model as well as manual, whereas the manual is 20kg lighter as per Finland site. Considering that gross weight is same for both specs (1902kg) in both sites, there seems to be an error in UK site for the kerb weight of Octavia 2.0L diesel DSG model. So, Danger-2: There could be mistakes in the specs.

Coming to the India site, the weight of the same car is listed as 1395kg. The weight difference between DSG and manual is 55kg! More over, gross weight is 1915kg, giving a payload of 520kg whereas it is 625kg in UK/Finland. Even using same payload as UK/Finland, Indian Octavia's kerb weight will be 1290kg, still heavier than UK/Finland. So, should I assume that India-spec Octavia has better structural rigidity than UK spec? So, Danger-3: There may not be any apparent reason for different specs
StarrySky is offline   (10) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th November 2015, 18:32   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 147
Thanked: 210 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I think using car weight specifications from different countries to compare structural rigidity/build quality will probably lead to wrong conclusions. We have no idea how or with what assumptions manufacturers specify car weights.

For eg: Skoda UK website lists the kerb weight of Octavia 2.0L diesel DSG model as 1257kg for all trim levels(link). Skoda Finland website specifies the kerb weight of the same car as 1352 kg "for standard model". I know that this includes the weight of the driver (calculated as 75kg), but even taking that out, the weight comes to 1277kg, so 20kg heavier than UK spec. So, Danger-1: Specs are not directly comparable as there may be some underlying assumptions in different countries.

Digging a bit deeper, Skoda UK website lists the same kerb weight for the DSG model as well as manual, whereas the manual is 20kg lighter as per Finland site. Considering that gross weight is same for both specs (1902kg) in both sites, there seems to be an error in UK site for the kerb weight of Octavia 2.0L diesel DSG model. So, Danger-2: There could be mistakes in the specs.

Coming to the India site, the weight of the same car is listed as 1395kg. The weight difference between DSG and manual is 55kg! More over, gross weight is 1915kg, giving a payload of 520kg whereas it is 625kg in UK/Finland. Even using same payload as UK/Finland, Indian Octavia's kerb weight will be 1290kg, still heavier than UK/Finland. So, should I assume that India-spec Octavia has better structural rigidity than UK spec? So, Danger-3: There may not be any apparent reason for different specs
Great information guys !

The Jazz that is sold in South Africa is made in and exported from India and the "Trend" variant ( lowest variant in SA) as well as the S variant in India weigh the same @ 1040 kg !

All this even when the "trend" variant gets extra safety features including 6 airbags whereas our S variant gets only the driver airbag plus other extra features the Trend gets over the S.

Guess what Starry Sky is saying - esp Danger 1 and Danger 2 are quite plausible in the case of the Jazz too.

So can we consider the fully loaded variant sold in SA somewhat comparable to the one in the UK in terms of safety? if yes since its made in India and India also gets the same Jazz ( does the mfg process differ in a same plant for the same car (for the one that goes to SA and the one sold in India except the BOM) ? -

So then can we infer something at least with higher certainty?

Attaching the Jazz SA brochure for more expert comparison with the Indian one.

I guess we will never know for sure until BNCAP results are out, until then intuition says India Jazz's body/structure is not very far compared ( may be the same too) to the one sold in SA, albeit the better specs, and should perform at the same levels - at least in the case of a frontal impact.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf South Africa-jazz-brochure.pdf (1.31 MB, 234 views)

Last edited by The Observer : 5th November 2015 at 18:33.
The Observer is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2015, 14:14   #14
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 27
Thanked: 34 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

I usually dont get into writing, not esp for such topics, however, what I want to know is is the gross/kerb weight the basis of safety? Does this really translate to better or worse safety with numbers increasing or decreasing respectively?

Is the India sold Jazz built to "Global" standards or " Indian" standards? Instead of having misleading Headlines + pages of discussion which leads to only "Assumptions" can anyone get Honda to declare this officially?

A request - Please change the Headline to mention UK spec.

Some might get mislead into the car's safe worthiness, which is not this forum's intentions. . Besides, the list share in many posts are all features not a part of Indian version, so is this really a NCAP5 grade car in India?
ashpalio is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2015, 17:06   #15
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,749
Thanked: 89,389 Times
Default re: 2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_see View Post
Everybody is talking about weight difference.. but what about the extra 40 mm length of European car?
Good point.

I'm just wondering why Honda even bothered with shortening it? The UK version @ 3,995 mm is also a sub-4 meter car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
We certainly can't judge the same by using imprecise measures like Kerb weight.
I completely agree, Prakhar. However, in the absence of any other information, this is the only data we can guesstimate on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I think using car weight specifications from different countries to compare structural rigidity/build quality will probably lead to wrong conclusions. We have no idea how or with what assumptions manufacturers specify car weights.
Truly! We don't know whether either car was measured with fuel & lubes, with spare tyre or without etc. That's why, it's only guesses....not a conclusive finding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashpalio View Post
A request - Please change the Headline to mention UK spec.
Doing, thanks!
GTO is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 Hyundai i20 gets 4-star Euro NCAP crash test score Tushar The International Automotive Scene 7 21st March 2017 07:32
ASEAN NCAP Q3 2014 Crash Test Results (Honda City & Tata Vista) ad3952n The Indian Car Scene 44 24th May 2016 16:47
ASEAN NCAP crash test - Indonesian Datsun GO scores 2-stars Tushar The International Automotive Scene 2 24th September 2015 15:40
The Chinese 'Qoros 3' gets a Euro NCAP rating of 5 stars! vinair The International Automotive Scene 15 1st April 2014 09:00
Fav car of Politicians/Businessmen/Sports Stars/Film Stars. Macho Toyota SUV line up PCS The Indian Car Scene 32 27th November 2012 05:35


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:43.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks