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Old 16th March 2017, 11:14   #16
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
...
3. Last but not the least, who benefits from exposing such emission violations? Is there a pattern of targeting VW, Renault & is it predictable to know who will be next?
This got me thinking, is this some new kind of ransom tactics? Some large fund houses taking advantage of the strategic release of such news about emission scandals?

Fiat too took a hit in Jan'2017, their stocks went down by 14%, this also impacted their supplier stocks.

Details here.
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Old 16th March 2017, 21:13   #17
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

I wonder why Pollution control Board of India is silent on this news.
The Captur uses the similar 1.5 DCI used in Renault Duster, Terrano, Sunny, Scala & Fluence.
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Old 16th March 2017, 22:23   #18
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

God only knows how much Tata and Mahindra emit. Given the volume of diesel vehicles sold in all categories combined , these manufacturers should realize advancement and incorporation of hybrid technology is the only way ahead. On top of that diesel quality variation between fuel stations and skipping maintenance by cab aggregators to break even at a faster rate , I wonder how long will it take for people to realize about the chronic after effects of running a poorly maintained vehicle.
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Old 17th March 2017, 07:02   #19
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

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Originally Posted by rahulskumar View Post
God only knows how much Tata and Mahindra emit. Given the volume of diesel vehicles sold in all categories combined , these manufacturers should realize advancement and incorporation of hybrid technology is the only way ahead. On top of that diesel quality variation between fuel stations and skipping maintenance by cab aggregators to break even at a faster rate , I wonder how long will it take for people to realize about the chronic after effects of running a poorly maintained vehicle.
\

Sometimes, the efforts of doing something tapers off and has diminishing returns, I think this is applicable to making diesels clean - they cannot be made clean anymore than what has been achieved.

The great bureaucracy sits upon its throne and acts as a do-gooder to society by making norms tighter, rules stricter and percentages wider or narrower each year. They conveniently ignore the realities of science, as they have done with diesels. How does one make diesels clean mechanically - the car weight has to be reduced, the engine displacement has to be cut down, the engine weight has to be reduced and diesel manufacturing has to be streamlined and in strict quality control (diesel being an oil has more chances of impurities than petrol which is a spirit, the end refined diesel itself doesn't win any points for being "clean" since all the impurites are shunted out from the refineries). If people think that software "tweaks" and software modifications can make a dirty diesel engine perform like an all-electric car, they have another thing coming.

This also has to do with a slightly useless technology called EGR control valve (exhaust gas recirculation), which sends part of the exhaust gas to the engine to recombust, but Renault did the programming in such a way that only in lower temperatures (17-35 degrees) will this even function, outside of the temperature range the emissions of NOx was found to be 10 times the limit, think of this parallel to a water purifier - it works claiming to be the fastest purifier on earth, but in actual its slow and when you increase force of water output it simply throws out the tap water without ANY purification whatsoever.

Here's the reality - diesels ARE dirty, France has admitted it, America has admitted it, the rest of Europe are waking up to it and in a small chip of South Asia called India, its capital Delhi has declared the same having suffered from pollution to unbearable levels. Petrols are too, but they do not have the particles-from-hell as part of their exhaust repertoire called NOx, which diesels are only famous for.

I remember when Ubers were striking in Bangalore, I personally felt the air become lighter, the temperature becoming stable and in general the whole city felt like its old, pristine self, all in 2 weeks. This is not any ploy to defame diesels, or to go back to stone ages where there were no vehicles, I urge the people to look at it in a holistic way, do their own research and perhaps, do their bit to our environment if they are convinced. No software-tweak can help oil-burning engines, PERIOD.
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Old 20th March 2017, 15:25   #20
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

Opel vehicles cleared of fraud.

Evidence of possible emission fraud found in Fiat, Renault, Peugeot Citroen and Volkswagen cars sold in France.

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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:50   #21
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

France to probe Fiat for emissions cheating.

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The US Environmental Protection Agency said the undisclosed software on the 2014 to 2016 models of Grand Cherokees and Dodge Ram 1500 trucks sold in the US allowed the vehicles to emit more nitrogen oxides than permitted.
France already investigating global heavyweight Volkswagen and French champion Renault for allegedly fitting engines with devices designed to fool emissions test equipment, now will open a probe into carmaker Fiat Chrysler for suspected cheating in diesel emissions tests.

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Old 22nd March 2017, 10:00   #22
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Renault's entire management team 'implicated'in emissions test fraud -Renault denies the charges.

Renault accused of cheating emission norms for the past 25 years.
This is not a surprise for people like me who have questioned Renault's design and manufacturing issues with proof, they tried to hide it under the carpet in 2016, now it is coming back to haunt them. I found an interesting article on the web and thought of sharing it here. Refer to page 3 of this pdf document, it explains in detail the types of cheat devices which have been identified so far by testing agencies.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2016_06_TE_briefing_Dirty_Thirty_FINAL.pdf (342.1 KB, 37 views)

Last edited by deehunk : 22nd March 2017 at 10:23.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 10:47   #23
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

Whenever i see the DCi engine equipped car slow down on the speed breaker or when its just about to pick up speed, i see a puff of smoke. I used to wonder how does this engine pass through the tests.

The way these probes are going on i fell every manufacturer has cheated
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Old 19th May 2017, 12:19   #24
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

FCA in trouble again as U.S. preparing to sue Fiat Chrysler over excess diesel emissions.


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The U.S. Justice Department plans to file a civil lawsuit against Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCHA.MI) over excess diesel emissions as early as this week if no agreement is reached with the Italian-American automaker, two sources briefed on the matter said on Wednesday.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in January accused FCA of illegally using undisclosed software to allow excess diesel emissions in about 104,000 cars and SUVs.
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Similarly in Europe too, EU starts legal action against Italy over Fiat Chrysler emissions.
Quote:
The European Commission launched legal action against Italy for failing to respond to allegations of emissions-test cheating by Fiat Chrysler, in a procedure that could lead to the country being taken to court
Quote:
EU regulators say Italy has failed to convince them that the so-called defeat devices used to modulate emissions on its vehicles outside of narrow testing conditions are justified.

Defeat devices have been illegal under EU law since 2007. Their use has come under renewed scrutiny following Volkswagen's admission that it used software to mask real-world NOx emissions, which are blamed for respiratory illnesses and early deaths.
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Last edited by volkman10 : 19th May 2017 at 12:24.
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Old 24th May 2017, 07:38   #25
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Default Re: Renault: No cheat device found, but its cars exceed emission limits. Stock price takes a beating

FCA in trouble.

U.S. government sues Fiat Chrysler over excess emissions.

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The U.S. government filed a civil lawsuit on Tuesday accusing Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCHA.MI) of illegally using software to bypass emission controls in 104,000 diesel vehicles sold since 2014.
Quote:
The lawsuit also names Fiat Chrysler's unit VM Motori SpA, which designed the engine in question. Reuters reported last week the Justice Department and EPA have obtained internal emails and other documents written in Italian that look at engine development and emissions issues that raise significant questions. The investigation has scrutinized VM Motori.
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Last edited by volkman10 : 24th May 2017 at 07:40.
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