Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st April 2016, 17:01   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
Dr.Naren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: B'lore / Mysore
Posts: 3,068
Thanked: 5,753 Times
Default Re: Maruti Baleno : Official Review

Few observations and comparison about crash test results

Baleno
1.It is made in India and Kerb weight is 890 kgs which is almost same as Indian version.
2.Baleno scored 3 stars with front and side airbags.
3.Body shell was stable.
4 .Side impact test would have been better if airbags deployed in correct manner(I consider this as a minor issue with sensor/software which can be easily rectified by Suzuki)
5.Baleno is 10 percent stronger than swift

Swift
1.European swift scored 5 stars and body shell was stable.
2.Indian swift crumpled badly in comparison and body shell was rated unstable.
3.Swift weighs 100 kgs more than baleno.

My Analysis
1.Safety review of baleno is better than swift, made in India. This again confirms that weight is not the only factor for safety. With a 10 percent stronger body shell, baleno was stable compared to swift.
2.Euro NCAP norms are the most strict compared to other crash tests
3.Comparison with swift is to point out that Maruti is doing good job by making airbags standard, not compromising on body shell etc
4.Baleno crash test results is nothing great. It is pretty decent. Cabin is not rated unstable (Many Indian made cars failed to pass the crash tests and body shell was rated poor)
Dr.Naren is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2016, 18:06   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,038
Thanked: 681 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

I'm waiting for the day that MSIL publishes crash test results for its 'Sold in India' cars. That will be the day that I will consider buying another Maruti car. Till then all these tests of Euro spec cars mean nothing to me.

So far, MSIL has been ignoring my requests for crash test reports even though I'm a loyal Maruti customer and am more than willing to pay for a 5 star rated car from Maruti.
Lalvaz is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2016, 18:21   #33
BHPian
 
Kamal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: N.Delhi
Posts: 115
Thanked: 78 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
This is a shame. The older Designed for Europe- Swift(not the car sold here) scored 5 stars in Euro NCAP few years back. Suzuki is perfectly capable of making a 5 star capable car. Expect the feather light Indian Baleno to be even worse.

How do you cover up in Indian market, so that Global NCAP guys do not shame you publicly by randomly testing the base variant, just offer ABS and Airbags as standard. This works well in a country where ignorant masses think once you get an airbags equipped car you become invincible.

I feel crash testing should be mandatory for all cars sold in India. And safety equipment like ABS and dual front Airbags be made mandatory for all cars, for higher segments beyond a certain price point and power figure- ESP and Curtain airbags be made compulsory.
I agree that crash testing should be made mandatory in India & permission to sell should be based on the results thereof.
Masses ignorance apart, Auto magazines, portals should also give high importance to the safety aspect; e,g, in the highly detailed official TeamBhp review of the Baleno , only a passing reference to the safety aspect was made.
Methinks this needs to change;once opinion leaders start emphasizing safety, masses will get educated too.
I'm a 2 day old owner of a Baleno & the rating has left me a bit sick.
I had expected a better result after all the talk by Maruti about TECT bodyshell design etc.
I hope pressure is brought to bear on Maruti to at least offer the Safety Pack as an option here in India.
Can the Team BHP leadership please take the initiative in this?
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
I'm waiting for the day that MSIL publishes crash test results for its 'Sold in India' cars. That will be the day that I will consider buying another Maruti car. Till then all these tests of Euro spec cars mean nothing to me.

So far, MSIL has been ignoring my requests for crash test reports even though I'm a loyal Maruti customer and am more than willing to pay for a 5 star rated car from Maruti.
I understand that the S Cross is 5 star rated, so there's one at least in the Maruti stable

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I can put up pictures of a Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7-Series that have crumpled beyond recognition after a crash. These pictures don't say anything and are absolutely worthless in gauging the safety of a car.
Attachment 1499221
Source
Absolutely agree!
Someone also made the point that even a 5 Star rating does not mean that the car will be safe when driven at twice the speeds at which they are tested by NCAP; horrifyingly, I keep reading posts in various fora about owners boasting about stability even when the Baleno is driven at speeds in excess of 120 kmph!
I do hope TeamBhp will lay even more emphasis on the safety aspect in reviews/advice on buying & on responsible driving.

Last edited by Zappo : 21st April 2016 at 18:45. Reason: Request you to spend some time to understand the usage of Multiquote button to avoid multiple back to back posts. All posts merged.
Kamal is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2016, 18:52   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
adimicra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,558
Thanked: 1,058 Times
Default Re: Maruti Baleno : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXXX View Post
One important thing to consider here is this Baleno is made in India one, Swift that earned a 5 STAR rating before is an Hungarian one. I think only Vento and Etios which were made here and tested in LatinNCAP and scored a 4 STAR. Do we happen to know any other car that is made in India and scored higher ratings in euroncap?
That would be a fair comparision to see how well MSIL executed on a global safety requirement. But overall the shell itself seemed to hold up quite well and the side impact beams seemed to protect well too.

PS:- I suppose you meant the TECT bodyshell.
I understand your point.
Yes, the Swift which scored 5* in EuroNCAP was made in Europe.
The Indian Swift scored 0* or even worse actually.

From Suzuki's (Europe ) point of view , it's actually a downgrade to see the newer car with supposedly superior technology having inferior ratings compared to the older model.No?

Now, coming to the Indian Baleno vs the Indian Swift, I think the Baleno will do much better as the Indian Swift fared really poorly in the crash tests. But, just because the car is made in India or the body weight being similar, it is not fair to assume that the Baleno sold in India will fare exactly the same as the one sold in Europe which was tested. (We have had lots of arguments in Team BHP about this and it is inconclusive as there have been several cases where export versions of the car having better build quality etc). The only way to ensure that will be to perform the same tests on the Baleno sold in India.

Comparing Baleno to some of the competitors, the European Baleno clearly is behind some of its European competitors as I mentioned above. This is the only apples-to-apples comparison we can make. Whether the Indian Baleno will be better or worse than those competitors sold in India is anyone's guess. We can't assume that the Indian Baleno will have same quality as the European Baleno whereas the competitors will have inferior quality than the respective European models just because the Baleno is exported from here. And we can't assume the other way as well.
adimicra is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2016, 20:23   #35
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 10,049
Thanked: 15,541 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamal View Post
I understand that the S Cross is 5 star rated, so there's one at least in the Maruti stable.
Here are the 5 star Euro NCAP certified Suzuki cars from 2010 on-wards,

Name:  1.JPG
Views: 2895
Size:  28.5 KB
Name:  2.JPG
Views: 2896
Size:  29.4 KB
Name:  3.JPG
Views: 2934
Size:  29.1 KB
volkman10 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2016, 20:48   #36
Distinguished - BHPian
 
anjan_c2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 5,531
Thanked: 4,701 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

In fact, frontal and side crash tests besides pedestrian protection test @ 56 kmph (frontal) and @ 50 kmph (side impact) will be mandatory in India from October 2017 onwards. The Bharat New Vehicle Safety Assessment Programme (BNVSAP) on the lines of New Car Assessment Programme (NCAP) will be in vogue by then. The tests will be mandatory for all new models and for existing models the deadline for compliance is October 2019. The GOI notification to the effect has been issued, if we are to go by the Times of India news report (link below) to enable the automobile manufacturers, tighten up their belts and phase out the vehicle models that would not be able to comply with the BNVSAP/ NCAP safety star ratings.

For instance, the Ambassador (had it lived?) would have had to automatically go by October 2019, post the mandatory NCAP dates and so also perhaps the ladder frame chassis models - Mahindra has some of them in their portfolio and so also Force Motors and Tata. I may have missed some of the manufacturers.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/47209480.cms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat...ssment_Program

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 21st April 2016 at 20:58.
anjan_c2007 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2016, 22:26   #37
BHPian
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: NCR/Turin
Posts: 418
Thanked: 584 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Three stars is pretty awful for a brand new car of Baleno's class in Europe. I'm sure all reviews of the Baleno in Eu will point out it's disappointing crash test rating as a major negative. What happened to all that next gen lightweight construction that MS was boasting about?
Anyway, who cares? It's a Maruti and it has lots of equipment. After all,touchscreen is any day more useful than side airbags.
Doge is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2016, 23:31   #38
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,038
Thanked: 681 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamal View Post
I agree that crash testing should be made mandatory in India & permission to sell should be based on the results thereof.
Masses ignorance apart, Auto magazines, portals should also give high importance to the safety aspect; e,g, in the highly detailed official TeamBhp review of the Baleno , only a passing reference to the safety aspect was made.
Methinks this needs to change;once opinion leaders start emphasizing safety, masses will get educated too.
I'm a 2 day old owner of a Baleno & the rating has left me a bit sick.
I had expected a better result after all the talk by Maruti about TECT bodyshell design etc.
I hope pressure is brought to bear on Maruti to at least offer the Safety Pack as an option here in India.
Can the Team BHP leadership please take the initiative in this?
Thanks.


I understand that the S Cross is 5 star rated, so there's one at least in the Maruti stable
Yes, I totally agree that we should emphasise the safety aspects in our reviews. Only when we ask the automobile head honchos these questions repeatedly will they take the Indian customer seriously. Otherwise it's just talk about touchscreen displays, alloy wheels, chrome garnishes etc.

MSIL is not giving a copy of the crash test results for the S cross. I have asked for it repeatedly but to no avail. Would really appreciate if anyone here could help me get a copy of the same. If it does get a 5 star rating, I will buy it immediately.

Till I don't see the report, all these tests for Euro spec cars mean nothing.
Lalvaz is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2016, 07:14   #39
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 10,049
Thanked: 15,541 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
MSIL is not giving a copy of the crash test results for the S cross. I have asked for it repeatedly but to no avail. Would really appreciate if anyone here could help me get a copy of the same. If it does get a 5 star rating, I will buy it immediately.
There is no mention of the Indian S Cross being crash tested so I doubt you will get any such report as of now.

The Sx4 ( S Cross) for Europe and the ASEAN reports are the only ones availble for S Cross - both having 5 star rating- but not related to the Indian built S Cross.

Name:  1.JPG
Views: 2549
Size:  25.0 KB
Name:  2.JPG
Views: 2557
Size:  34.9 KB
volkman10 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2016, 09:15   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: mumbai
Posts: 32
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I understand your point.
Yes, the Swift which scored 5* in EuroNCAP was made in Europe.
The Indian Swift scored 0* or even worse actually.

From Suzuki's (Europe ) point of view , it's actually a downgrade to see the newer car with supposedly superior technology having inferior ratings compared to the older model.No?

Now, coming to the Indian Baleno vs the Indian Swift, I think the Baleno will do much better as the Indian Swift fared really poorly in the crash tests. But, just because the car is made in India or the body weight being similar, it is not fair to assume that the Baleno sold in India will fare exactly the same as the one sold in Europe which was tested. (We have had lots of arguments in Team BHP about this and it is inconclusive as there have been several cases where export versions of the car having better build quality etc). The only way to ensure that will be to perform the same tests on the Baleno sold in India.

Comparing Baleno to some of the competitors, the European Baleno clearly is behind some of its European competitors as I mentioned above. This is the only apples-to-apples comparison we can make. Whether the Indian Baleno will be better or worse than those competitors sold in India is anyone's guess. We can't assume that the Indian Baleno will have same quality as the European Baleno whereas the competitors will have inferior quality than the respective European models just because the Baleno is exported from here. And we can't assume the other way as well.
Thank you for putting up your point of you but mine strongly differs from it.

Yes, the Baleno that has scored a 3 star rating at the Euro Ncap tests is equipped with 6 airbags so the story is going to be different with the indian spec car but the body shell is made of the same materials as the car is made in india & this has been confirmed by many people on this forum by inquiring with maruti officials. Further, leading automotive websites have also mentioned the same and weight is a measure to understand that the metal used on the vehicle is the same.

To give a few examples of the European rivals you mentioned -

1. Honda Jazz - India (1044kgs), Europe (1100kgs)

2.I20 - India (1066kgs), Europe (1100kgs)

3.Polo - India (1033kgs), Europe (1035kgs)

So clearly other than the Polo, the cars are using different metal in the two countries keeping us clueless about how are they going to perform in India whereas the Baleno weighs exactly 890kgs in both countries. Now unless Suzuki is using Duralumin for building the European Baleno it is impossible to achieve the same weight & a tougher build than the Indian version & that said they definitely cant use Duralumin because that would catapault its cost to almost 3 times the usual.

Coming to the zero stars on the Indian swift you mentioned, I'd like to point it out to you that the swift which scored a 0 was the lxi version without the airbags or ABS. Eventually when the zxi version was tested it was rated a solid 4 stars by ASEAN Ncap standards.

Next as to why have I taken the swift as a benchmark is because -

1.firstly I know how would it perform in a crash in India which is not true for the Europeans

2.I could choose the Polo for a comparison but that is outright unfair given the fact that its in a different league of safety altogether but that's not the only thing you want from a car is it? If a car is safe enough to save your life & heavy injuries the rest lies on the driver & a bad driver can crumple a polo like a beer can too. Now am not promoting unsafe cars here but what I am saying is if a car scores 90% on adult occupant safety but offers nothing else is not exactly what a practical person would buy against a car offering 80% adult occupant safety with a lot more (comparing the polo petrol with the Baleno petrol here, polo diesel, gt tdi and gt tsi offer bags more than the Baleno in terms of functionality).

3.The number of polos in our country is not even half the number of swifts/dzires & so there could be a higher number Baleno-swift crashes than Baleno-Polos.

Lastly on why Suzuki has degraded from the swift's 5 star to the Baleno's 3 star in Europe, I agree to you. But I am buying my car in India and to my eye, the Baleno has a more stable body shell than the indian spec swift.

Also, with all due respect to a senior BHPian, i20 is from korea and jazz from Japan, its only the polo which is the European rival here, however, I presume you meant to say European spec cars of the three.

Last edited by ampere : 22nd April 2016 at 10:28. Reason: Back to back posts merged.
The AG 6167 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2016, 11:25   #41
BHPian
 
SoumenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: B'lore
Posts: 277
Thanked: 346 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Sad to see the Baleno score 3 stars. This automatically translates into 2*(?) for the one sold in India with just frontal airbags? No wonder Maruti played smart by giving safety equipment as standard post the Swift Lxi scoring a shameful 0 star. Its like something is better than nothing

BTW i20 scored 4 stars in Euro NCAP last year. Link (2015 Hyundai i20 gets 4-star Euro NCAP crash test score)

Does this mean baleno is an inferior car from safety POV?

P.S : Was pinning my hopes on this(owing to lack of decent petrol premium hatches) as my upgrade once I returned but now looks I will have to wait further till they test India spec Baleno

Last edited by SoumenD : 22nd April 2016 at 11:53.
SoumenD is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2016, 11:58   #42
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: bangalore
Posts: 37
Thanked: 68 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamal View Post
Can the Team BHP leadership please take the initiative in this?

I do hope TeamBhp will lay even more emphasis on the safety aspect in reviews/advice on buying & on responsible driving.
Good idea. Would it be possible for each team-bhp review to have a safety star rating as well? Either based on reviews elsewhere and/or based on safety features available (and differentiate between variants of the car)..

Better - why not does NCAP/BNVSAP not tie up with team-bhp..
sprocket is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2016, 12:03   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
adimicra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,558
Thanked: 1,058 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by The AG 6167 View Post
Thank you for putting up your point of you but mine strongly differs from it.

Yes, the Baleno that has scored a 3 star rating at the Euro Ncap tests is equipped with 6 airbags so the story is going to be different with the indian spec car but the body shell is made of the same materials as the car is made in india & this has been confirmed by many people on this forum by inquiring with maruti officials. Further, leading automotive websites have also mentioned the same and weight is a measure to understand that the metal used on the vehicle is the same.

To give a few examples of the European rivals you mentioned -

1. Honda Jazz - India (1044kgs), Europe (1100kgs)

2.I20 - India (1066kgs), Europe (1100kgs)

3.Polo - India (1033kgs), Europe (1035kgs)

So clearly other than the Polo, the cars are using different metal in the two countries keeping us clueless about how are they going to perform in India whereas the Baleno weighs exactly 890kgs in both countries.
I will keep it short and simple with Jazz as the example.
Indian Jazz with 2 airbags weigh around 1044 kgs. (source: Honda India site)
The base UK model weighs 1066 kgs which has a BIGGER Engine and different 6 speed gearbox plus 6 airbags, VSA and lots of other safety measures etc etc. (source: Honda UK wite)
So, your assumption that I20 or Jazz is using different metal or construction for India versus European models is baseless. They might or might not. We don't know.

OK, back to the Baleno.
There are 2 ways to look at the results -
1> A brand new car scoring less than older models like Swift and S-cross or some competitors is disappointing.
2> Baleno should be better than the Indian Swift as hopefully Maruti would have maintained the same quality as the export model. So, results are encouraging.
adimicra is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2016, 12:52   #44
BHPian
 
WRXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 253
Thanked: 290 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

Few things to consider before talking.

Especially this notice which states STARs of previous years shouldn't be directly compared to the current year as the STAR is based on that years STAR assessment protocols.

Baleno without safety pack does as well as one without in the crash tests is a good sign of structural integrity. I am happy that structure didn't crumble.

Sorry I can't comment on how safe it is compared to a Jazz built outside which got 5 STAR rating in 2015 to an India built Baleno sold in Europe and tested in 2016 based on 2016 protocols and got 4 STAR. Too many variables and guess work,

For the Indian public, we shouldn't get fooled by the STARs alone as the Indian version will probably get 1 STAR in the absence of curtain airbags? But improvement on structural integrity is something that is appreciated. I would say for sure you will see STARs if you collide with a truck/bus here in most of the cars
Attached Thumbnails
India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating-2016_euro_ncap_notice.jpg  

Attached Images
 
WRXXX is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2016, 14:43   #45
BHPian
 
Waspune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 305
Thanked: 273 Times
Default Re: India-made & Euro-spec Suzuki Baleno gets 3 - 4 Star NCAP rating

First of all lets not compare Swift with Baleno as they belong to different segments. So, if Baleno performed better than Swift, its nothing great, after all you are putting more money to buy it. Baleno should be compared with its other fellow segment mates like i20, Jazz, Polo and Punto, where it lags behind by a good margin. Maruti should stop taking the Indian market for granted, which seems improbable, thanks to their sales' numbers.
Waspune is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Record-breaking safety rating for Volvo V40 in the Euro NCAP. EDIT: Now the XC60 too volkman10 The International Automotive Scene 12 9th November 2017 11:51
2015 Hyundai i20 gets 4-star Euro NCAP crash test score Tushar The International Automotive Scene 7 21st March 2017 07:32
2015 UK-spec Honda Jazz gets 5 Stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test vijjuvk The International Automotive Scene 21 8th April 2016 21:44
The Chinese 'Qoros 3' gets a Euro NCAP rating of 5 stars! vinair The International Automotive Scene 15 1st April 2014 09:00
Euro NCAP rating Revvmaster Technical Stuff 0 26th May 2004 00:26


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:58.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks