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Old 6th July 2016, 10:13   #31
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Now Tesla Model X crashes in Pennsylvania, no fatalities reported.

That scrutiny will likely become even sharper as The Detroit Free Press is reporting a Model X was in Autopilot mode when it crashed on the Pennsylvania Turnpike last week.

http://www.motor1.com/news/64815/tes...ties-reported/
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Old 6th July 2016, 10:41   #32
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

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Originally Posted by 1.2TSI7DSG View Post
Tesla here is experimenting with technology which might change the way we view transport. There are bound to be errors and fatalities in the development. Not that i am indifferent to the life of the person involved but we should recognize that this is the first major change in the way we see cars. All the testing or for that matter driving involved is a risk in itself and is known to the users.
You are absolutely right. This is a paradigm shift in terms of transportation, in the order of changing from horse carriage to motorcar. As you have rightly said, there will be incidents that will cause injuries or perhaps take lives as the technology improves. It is the overall perception of the people and govt policies that determine if these incidents are something to take in the stride or prohibit them until everything is absolutely perfect (a theoretical impossibility). In a country like the US (or most developed countries) where driving is highly predictable, there is a fantastic opportunity to actually improve the system in real world scenario. No test track can create the impossible situation, that humans with their unpredictable behaviour can create. On the lighter side, Tesla should recruit about 100 cabbies and auto rickshaw drivers from Bangalore and create their test track. If the system can handle those, then its ready Hopefully this one incident does not deter the advances in auto-navigation, which certainly will change the transport scene over all across the planet.
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Old 6th July 2016, 18:27   #33
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

My one big concern is:

Tesla's autonomous driving system would know that external conditions are approaching its failure range. So why not just force the driver to take control?

I have two major concerns with autonomous cars:
1) Over a billion cars and bikes will not go away one fine day and be replaced by self driving cars. So there will be a long period when the ratio of autonomous to manual car changes from 0:100 to even 50:50 to 90:10 to 100:0. How do we negotiate that period? How do they negotiate that period?
2) I enjoy driving and I am a fairly safe driver. Why should I give up my right to enjoy something that has been the cornerstone of our civilization for over a century just because some company claims that their software can drive better than me?

I am pretty certain self driving and driver assistance technology is the future. Just not so quick, and not so easy.

Last edited by Rehaan : 25th August 2016 at 20:04. Reason: As per upcoming PM / note in assembly line.
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Old 6th July 2016, 19:55   #34
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

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Originally Posted by PallavS View Post
My one big concern is:

Tesla's autonomous driving system would know that external conditions are approaching its failure range. So why not just force the driver to take control?

I have two major concerns with autonomous cars:
1) Over a billion cars and bikes will not go away one fine day and be replaced by self driving cars. So there will be a long period when the ratio of autonomous to manual car changes from 0:100 to even 50:50 to 90:10 to 100:0. How do we negotiate that period? How do they negotiate that period?
2) I enjoy driving and I am a fairly safe driver. Why should I give up my right to enjoy something that has been the cornerstone of our civilization for over a century just because some company claims that their software can drive better than me?

I am pretty certain self driving and driver assistance technology is the future. Just not so quick, and not so easy.
Tesla is no autonomous car per se, but more of assisted driving. Its Level 3 autonomous for that very reason.

Moreover, there is no "the Autonomous car", its an idea which is under testing and when its just safe/right enough, it'll be deployed on existing platforms (comma.ai is a startup in SF woring on same lines) and probably other big companies will get specialized cars as well. That period is still 5-6 years(decade max) away for the United States, while I am clueless about India, because I think the problem with our country is more about self-discipline and infrastructure.
So its more about conversion rather than buying specialized cars.

Secondly after the mass-conversion, I can roughly correlate your scenario to the fact that there are no bullock carts or tractors allowed on Mumbai-Pune Expressway, because they are sluggish, less-responsive or less-dynamic and unpredictable. DL cars will increase the density of traffic, will be superfast, will take shortest routes, will be lot safer because they think at 4.0ghz. They are effective because they are connected. Now when there is human variable involved in this whole connected-grid of predictable nodes, things are more susceptible to break because of the unpredictability factor. And DL cars and unpredictability are not friends.

I think they answer your 2 questions, its more of regularization for the betterment of whole 'public' on 'public roads' than private 'interests' or your rights.
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Old 7th July 2016, 18:32   #35
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Random note:

The average consumer won't care that the fine print on the Tesla autopilot and Google driverless cars is.

Google must be mighty happy about this. They can lay low and let the inevitable backlash over the first death target someone else.

All people'll think will be that the first person to die in a driverless car was in a Tesla.

Driverless cars are coming, one way or another - and I'm happy about that. I'll happily let all the distracted, disinterested and commercial drivers (and possible many forms of public transport...) disappear and all those functions be replaced by driverless vehicles. What I'm looking forward to is a brief shining period in history where self driven cars on the road are limited to enthusiasts, before the self driven car goes the way of the horse - stuck to race tracks and special events. But it'll be a long while before that, and I intend to enjoy the intervening decades.
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Old 7th July 2016, 20:08   #36
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Tesla seems to be getting overconfident of late.
First, there were the non disclosure agreements it made some buyers sign. Then this crash. And then an article in Fortune questioning why Tesla did not disclose this accident before raising $2 billion in stock sales, saying this information is equivalent to withholding material information.
Personally, I think using real world cars as beta tests is also too adventurous.
And as far as autonomous driving is concerned, I am skeptical about it. Driving in US is anyway so boring that distracted drivers are becoming a menace. If you give someone the option to sit back and do nothing but watch the road, that person will get bored in 30 seconds and start texting/watching movies/reading books etc etc.
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Old 8th July 2016, 12:12   #37
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Tesla's "AutoPilot" is misleading, it requires driver input, and shouldn't have been rolled out in the manner it has been. Drivers are distracted even in non-autonomous cars, and to expect them to be alert in autopilot mode is risky to other cars on the road as well.


I think there are two critical things that need to happen before Driving can become truly autonomous.

1) Cars have to communicate with each other. There will have to be a system where each vehicle transmits a signal identifying itself. So even if my car doesn't identify or recognize a threat, that threat can forcefully make it's presence felt. Kinda like searching for wifi hot spots. Of course, this will bring into play privacy issues especially in a litigious country like the US, but I don't see how it can be avoided without compromising safety of autonomous driving.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...communication/

2) Autonomous cars should have only two modes, fully auto or fully manual. (ABS, AWD and other driver aid type interventions included in the latter)

I personally even find Cruise control distracting on long US interstates. taking away the act of lightly modulating gas pedal pressure makes you feel sleepy. Imagine having nothing to do at all, but being expected to stay alert to intervene in an emergency where your reaction time is likely even shorter.

Last edited by srgntpepper : 8th July 2016 at 12:15.
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Old 9th July 2016, 23:10   #38
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Strange! Tesla claims that no video formats are supported on the multimedia system of their car. In short, you cannot watch movies on the infotainment.

But, a hacker has successfully bypassed the security system and installed a hack to watch movies on the 17 inch screen instead. Laws in the US state that it is illegal to drive if a video monitor is clearly visible from the drivers seat.

I think it was the driver's fault. He was speeding in the first place and put too much of trust on the autopilot.
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Old 13th July 2016, 02:24   #39
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Autopilot is available only in beta version and Tesla customer's should be well informed that the ultimate responsibility is only with the driver at any point of time and not with the autopilot system.

Tesla uses only Radar and Camera for environmental sensing and it misses an important sensor of the autonomous technology - the 'Lidar' which of course is very expensive but very precise in creating a virtual 3D map of the vehicle surroundings. Without Lidar the autonomous functions are very limited since Radar (does not work during snow) and Camera (fully dependent on available ambient light) have their own optimum operating conditions. In this case when autopilot is active, Tesla should always display a high priority warning in the instrument cluster to make sure that driver is fully aware of his responsibility. People are taking these beta technologies for granted without proper awareness. Remember that is the reason top OEMs are conducting trials of millions of kms with their own risks and are not encouraging their customers to test their beta versions
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Old 13th July 2016, 08:54   #40
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Another Tesla Model X Crash Blamed On Autopilot - this time in Montana.

Quote:
Over the weekend, a silver Model X crashed through a guardrail before careening off road and coming to a stop. The crash resulted in extensive damage to the front passenger side that included one wheel being torn from the electric SUV.
Quote:
the Autopilot system was active at the time of the crash between 56 and 60 mph (90-96 km/h) and without warning, veered off road and through the wooden guardrail
Tesla has yet to comment on the incident but is likely to release a statement in the near future. It's probable that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will also launch an investigation into the crash.

Link
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Old 14th July 2016, 19:14   #41
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Consumer Reports urges Tesla disable auto steering

Consumer Reports is a very influential magazine and it has given Tesla more than a slap on the wrist with this.
Will Elon Musk listen? The way he has been getting into petty spats with Fortune magazine, I doubt.
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Old 14th July 2016, 19:23   #42
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

I think there's a continual mismatch between expectation and reality; given the marketing, drivers seem to consider the Tesla Autopilot mode as an alternative to human driving whereas reality is that it is an assistant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Tesla has yet to comment on the incident but is likely to release a statement in the near future.
Here's Tesla's version:

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36783345

Quote:
"The data suggests that the driver's hands were not on the steering wheel, as no force was detected on the steering wheel for over two minutes after autosteer was engaged - even a very small amount of force, such as one hand resting on the wheel, will be detected.

"This is contrary to the terms of use that are agreed to when enabling the feature and the notification presented in the instrument cluster each time it is activated.
Quote:
"As road conditions became increasingly uncertain, the vehicle again alerted the driver to put his hands on the wheel.
"He did not do so, and shortly thereafter the vehicle collided with a post on the edge of the roadway.
Quote:
"Autosteer... is best suited for highways with a centre divider.
"We specifically advise against its use at high speeds on undivided roads."
Quote:
It said the man - who had identified himself only as Pang - had told a police officer the alerts given by the car had been in English but he spoke Mandarin.
I think this man should be charged; his excuses are downright irresponsible and life-threatening.

Last edited by libranof1987 : 14th July 2016 at 19:27.
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Old 14th July 2016, 19:37   #43
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
I think there's a continual mismatch between expectation and reality; given the marketing, drivers seem to consider the Tesla Autopilot mode as an alternative to human driving whereas reality is that it is an assistant.
You are right and that's what Consumer Reports is also suggesting. That is, to stop referring to it as AutoPilot, when it is really isn't one.
Its application in real world is really limited and the common driver is not intelligent enough or alert enough to decide when to use it.
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Old 28th July 2016, 08:40   #44
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Tesla and key Autopilot supplier split up.

Tesla and Mobileye, one of the top suppliers to its Autopilot partial self-driving system, are parting ways in the wake of the May accident that killed an owner of one of its electric Model S sedans.
Quote:
The split follows the accident that killed an Ohio man, Joshua Brown, on a Florida highway. He was reportedly driving his car with the Autopilot self-driving function engaged when a truck turned in front of him. His Tesla Model S electric sedan struck the truck, killing him.

Mobileye issued a statement after the crash saying its system is not designed to detect cross traffic yet, although it may have a system ready by 2018. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and National Transportation Safety Board are both investigating the accident.
Quote:
The Israeli tech company will continue to support and maintain current Tesla products, including upgrades that should help the Autopilot system with crash avoidance and to better allow the car to steer itself
Tesla CEO Elon Musk says,
Quote:
Us parting ways was somewhat inevitable. There’s nothing unexpected here from our standpoint. We’re committed to autonomy. They’ll go their way, and we’ll go ours.
In releasing a new master plan for the company last week, Tesla reaffirms that self-driving capability remains a key goal for Tesla.

Source

Last edited by volkman10 : 28th July 2016 at 08:46.
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Old 30th July 2016, 20:38   #45
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Default Re: Tesla Model S: Fatal crash in 'autopilot' mode

Tesla mulling two theories to explain 'Autopilot' crash.

Tesla Motors Inc told U.S. Senate Commerce Committee staff it is considering two theories that may help explain what led to the May 7 fatal crash that killed a Florida man who was using the car's "Autopilot" system.
Quote:
Tesla is considering whether the radar and camera input for the vehicle’s automatic emergency braking system failed to detect the truck trailer or the automatic braking system’s radar may have detected the trailer but discounted this input as part of a design to "tune out" structures such as bridges to avoid triggering false braking
Joshua Brown was killed when his vehicle drove under the tractor-trailer. It was the first known fatality involving a Model S operating on the Autopilot system that takes control of steering and braking in certain conditions.
Quote:
the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said its preliminary findings showed the Model S was traveling at 74 miles per hour (119 km per hour) in a 65-mph (104 km per hour) zone at the time it struck the semi-truck
Quote:
the NTSB confirmed the Model S driver was using the advanced driver assistance features Traffic-Aware Cruise Control and Autosteer lane-keeping assistance at the time. The NTSB has not yet determined the probable cause of the crash
Source

Last edited by volkman10 : 30th July 2016 at 20:40.
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