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Old 7th October 2006, 03:26   #31
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Originally Posted by maxbhp
Sujay the toughest part about designing Veyron was never the output , there are Skyline tuned to near 1000 bhp like u had said 2 - stage , 3 and even 4 stage can do the job , but whats much more significant is the traction available , the stability of the car at high speeds .... and I personally feel the engineers deserve a great deal of respect from the auto crazy fraternity coz they really did something remarkable , even the journalist all over the world said that . Common.....it is special .
Yeah! you are right, also the Veyron can run with all 4 flats at 80 MPH for enuff distance so that you can reach some place which can fix it, dont remember the coverage Miles.
We cant compare this Bugatti to any car, it may have 4 turbos or 20, but that is the stock spec, so removing the turbos is not the right way of comparing it.
Attaining a speed for few seconds is not the Idea when it comes to Supercars, its how long it can sustain it without much pain caused to the machine.
In that terms, even a 1000 BHP Skyline (Godzilla) will be put to shame, the two cant just be compared.

Giving an insignificant example, a Fully done up 1.6 Zen with T, N etc etc can beat a Skoda RS in 1 Km stretch, but how long can it sustain that speed ?
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Old 7th October 2006, 03:40   #32
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Jay Leno said that McMerc owners were called to the Nurburgring, and Merc test tracks. Inputs were taken BEFORE building the cars. Each prospective owner was given hours of time on a test mule, and engineers listened attentively to their smallest complaints. Ferrari on the other hand, grant you the privilege of owning one.
Merc and Ferrari are two very different companies. Merc makes cars that are Luxury to people, so their focus is obviously what people want, they are not a Sports car manufacturer by focus.
Ferrari is.
If the people at ferrari think they are doing a Favor to people by selling some of their cars, so be it, the cars can live up to that Attitude for sure.

Even Ferruccio Lamborghini did not care if the Countach was a usable car or how people liked it, he did not take inputs, but it was a cult, one of the most unusable cars was one of the most loved.
Now, thats an attitude, a way of doing things.

People have their freedom to look at things their way, so hence given the option you might go for a Merc SLR and I will still take a Ferrari F430. (not a F50 , cos they wont give it, but that way its a statement if one has a F50. Anyone can buy a Merc, but not all can get a F50)
Both cars cannot be compared and I know the Merc is better in many ways, but the feel of driving the Prancing Horse Breed is different feel altogether.

Watch this video below, this is just an Entry level F355, but that Glorious Soundtrack............. Nostalgic.

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Old 7th October 2006, 06:14   #33
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No offence to anyone but those 18 spoke wheels are ghastly, not to say it would be a pain to keep them clean. Give me a solid 5 spoke design anyday.
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Old 7th October 2006, 12:37   #34
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Originally Posted by SuperSyn
No offence to anyone but those 18 spoke wheels are ghastly, not to say it would be a pain to keep them clean. Give me a solid 5 spoke design anyday.
Look anyone who owns a Veyron will probably also have an army of cleaners to clean the car. Believe me he won't do it himself & cleaning the wheels would be the last of his concerns. Also I think the extra spokes could be to make the wheel stronger due to the huge forces on them at high speeds.
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Old 7th October 2006, 12:49   #35
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Originally Posted by iraghava
Look anyone who owns a Veyron will probably also have an army of cleaners to clean the car. Believe me he won't do it himself & cleaning the wheels would be the last of his concerns. Also I think the extra spokes could be to make the wheel stronger due to the huge forces on them at high speeds.
You are right and we are looking at it with a very indian perspective, tht car will not sell here, No one will buy it, I am not saying no one can buy it, but it is extreme injustice to buy that car to drive on our roads, be it any city, and it just cant be driven here with that ground clearence. Its more pain than pleasure to drive those machines here. I have had a very terrible time driving a Carerra in Mumbai, and Bugatti is out of question.

My brother cleans his bike once a month in the US and he has so much chrome. Not saying that all places in US are like that, but most are that clean. The tyres remian Black, they dont become brown like here. So cleaning is no issue. 5 spokes, or 50 spokes.
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Old 7th October 2006, 14:49   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueraven316
You are right and we are looking at it with a very indian perspective, tht car will not sell here, No one will buy it, I am not saying no one can buy it, but it is extreme injustice to buy that car to drive on our roads, be it any city, and it just cant be driven here with that ground clearence. Its more pain than pleasure to drive those machines here. I have had a very terrible time driving a Carerra in Mumbai, and Bugatti is out of question.
I disagree with you over here coz if thats the way you see it , Why do people buy Gallardo , Murcilego , F430 ?
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Old 7th October 2006, 19:57   #37
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the veyron has already been beaten....quite some time ago actually.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/21/b...mph-top-speed/

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/07/...s-fastest-car/

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/articles/barabus_tkr.asp
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Old 8th October 2006, 00:05   #38
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Originally Posted by blueraven316
Even Ferruccio Lamborghini did not care if the Countach was a usable car or how people liked it, he did not take inputs, but it was a cult, one of the most unusable cars was one of the most loved.
Now, thats an attitude, a way of doing things.
Lamborghini began building cars because Enzo treated him badly, IIRC. Just goes to show customer care by the founder himself.

Everyone builds cars to make money. No one is doing you a favour by giving you a car, more so when it's for a few hundred thou USD. One day, someone will teach Ferrari a lesson like one of those Indian princes taught Rolls-Royce.

Ameya, is the Barabus a production car?
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Old 8th October 2006, 00:29   #39
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Originally Posted by maxbhp
Sujay the toughest part about designing Veyron was never the output , there are Skyline tuned to near 1000 bhp like u had said 2 - stage , 3 and even 4 stage can do the job , but whats much more significant is the traction available , the stability of the car at high speeds .... and I personally feel the engineers deserve a great deal of respect from the auto crazy fraternity coz they really did something remarkable , even the journalist all over the world said that . Common.....it is special .
The Veyron can put 1001 HP to the ground because it was designed from day 1 to do so. Whereas cars like the Skyline or even the Corvette were designed to put 505 HP on the ground and but they had a lot of potential.
Many factors come into account like tyres, differential, drivetrain etc. etc.
e.g. the Veyron has an AWD with only 2% of the power going to the front wheels and 98% to the rear wheels. This was done to prevent excessive wheelspin and loss of traction. Whereas skyline has a dedicated AWD and the Corvette a traditional RWD layout.
Also do keep in mind that both of them cost approx. 1/5th of the Veyron.

Regarding the stock output of the Veyron, no other car in the world has 4 turbos with intercoolers. That's an achievement alright, but I read somewhere that without that it's output was like any average supercar which are naturally aspirated.

Acc. to me the Veyron would have been a great car had they made it lighter, slightly smaller and with the same acceleration timings even if they had something like 800 HP in it. 1001 HP is no big deal in North America. Many dragsters, monster trucks can have that. What's important is that it should be nimble, have confidence in handling and be good on the track.
Do you think you can take your Veyron for a drift? Lugging that huge mass of a car the wrong way and correcting it? Compare that to say a 911.
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Old 8th October 2006, 00:36   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri
1001 HP is no big deal in North America. Many dragsters, monster trucks can have that..
None of them are production cars, backed up by a service warranty from a global automobile major.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri
What's important is that it should be nimble, have confidence in handling and be good on the track.
Well, not that I've driven a Veyron, or an Elise, but I'm given to believe the Veyron handles like something less than half its size. Astounding, unbelievable, stupendous were some of the words I seem to recollect, and they had nothing to do with 1001 hp or 0-100 timings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri
Do you think you can take your Veyron for a drift? Lugging that huge mass of a car the wrong way and correcting it? Compare that to say a 911.
Is the drift the best way to judge the handling of a car? The Contessa is pretty huge, (but) it can be drifted pretty easy, but I don't think anyone here would say it handles better than a Getz. And obviously, you're not too familiar with the razor-sharp 911s of yore (not that I am).
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Old 8th October 2006, 04:56   #41
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Originally Posted by v1p3r

Is the drift the best way to judge the handling of a car? The Contessa is pretty huge, (but) it can be drifted pretty easy, but I don't think anyone here would say it handles better than a Getz. And obviously, you're not too familiar with the razor-sharp 911s of yore (not that I am).
The reason why I mentioned drifting is because some of the best drift capable cars in the world are also some of the best handling cars in the world.
Nissan 240 SX, Miata, Mazda RX-7, Evolution series etc etc...

Check out the videos of the drifting competitions worldwide and you'll see it for yourself.
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Old 8th October 2006, 09:31   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri
The Veyron can put 1001 HP to the ground because it was designed from day 1 to do so. Whereas cars like the Skyline or even the Corvette were designed to put 505 HP on the ground and but they had a lot of potential.
Many factors come into account like tyres, differential, drivetrain etc. etc.
e.g. the Veyron has an AWD with only 2% of the power going to the front wheels and 98% to the rear wheels. This was done to prevent excessive wheelspin and loss of traction. Whereas skyline has a dedicated AWD and the Corvette a traditional RWD layout.
Also do keep in mind that both of them cost approx. 1/5th of the Veyron.

Regarding the stock output of the Veyron, no other car in the world has 4 turbos with intercoolers. That's an achievement alright, but I read somewhere that without that it's output was like any average supercar which are naturally aspirated.

Acc. to me the Veyron would have been a great car had they made it lighter, slightly smaller and with the same acceleration timings even if they had something like 800 HP in it. 1001 HP is no big deal in North America. Many dragsters, monster trucks can have that. What's important is that it should be nimble, have confidence in handling and be good on the track.
Do you think you can take your Veyron for a drift? Lugging that huge mass of a car the wrong way and correcting it? Compare that to say a 911.
Hello Sujay , no offense meant but do you mean to compare Veyron with a Corvette ? or a Skyline ? its pointless . Bugatti is an exquisitely detailed sports car , designed to blend luxury and perfomance to perfection . The design the detail of the car is astounding , these arent my words , these are the same said by many Journs from around the world . Ii can do a ton in 2.5 secs , a 200 in around 7.3 secs , 300 in around 16 secs , top whack of around 253 mph (again a debatable figure.) in under a minute . The focus is on how it achieves it . How stable it feels at such accelerations , such enormous transfer of power , and how the driver is cocconed from all this . Thats where it stands above the rest . So sujay u mean to say even an Mc F1 is waste not to mention Pagani Zonda ..Ascari , Koenigg CCR . I get what your point is that you prefer a more economical power like an M6 . Unlike an M6, these machines are not more many . These are built to demand respect and to make us know where we have reached or where we can reach in terms of Automotive excellence and how these technologies can be adopted in near future to a mere mortal's car !


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Old 8th October 2006, 10:05   #43
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nice discussion going on here !!

But maxbhp, while I agree with most points of yours, I somehow dont think the Ascari KZ1 deserves to be in the same sentence as the Pagani Zonda, the Koenigsegg and the McLaren F1 !!

It is no where as good....not in the handling and not in the straight line figures.

In the latest Autocar India (Sept issue.. not the october one ), they have done a 0-100mph - 0 drag of 25 + different cars including the A1 GP Car, a Suzuki GSX R 1000 and a Veyron.

And the Ascari KZ1 doesnt came anywhere near the top...... it is beaten by the likes of the Caterham and so on......

Anyway this is going totally OT I hope the mods dont disapprove this post.....

Anyway on topic, on the on-going discussion, you cant actually compare the cars like Nissan Skyline, Corvette with the supercars like Veyron, etc....

The former were meant for cheap thrills. For people who couldnt afford expesnive super cars. They do an excellent job but they are still not syupercars.

While, I am not such a big fan of the Veyron (I prefer the McLaren F1 or the F40 ), I do think it is simply a magnificient piece of engineering....
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Old 8th October 2006, 11:29   #44
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nice discussion going on here !!

But maxbhp, while I agree with most points of yours, I somehow dont think the Ascari KZ1 deserves to be in the same sentence as the Pagani Zonda, the Koenigsegg and the McLaren F1 !!
It is no where as good....not in the handling and not in the straight line figures.
In the latest Autocar India (Sept issue.. not the october one ), they have done a 0-100mph - 0 drag of 25 + different cars including the A1 GP Car, a Suzuki GSX R 1000 and a Veyron.

And the Ascari KZ1 doesnt came anywhere near the top...... it is beaten by the likes of the Caterham and so on......
I meant the KZ1 - R , but still a personal preferenace ...What I basically mean is these are the kind of cars that are made to perform to its limits .

Quote:
While, I am not such a big fan of the Veyron (I prefer the McLaren F1 or the F40 ), I do think it is simply a magnificient piece of engineering....
F40 a grear car Indeed , to be frank I hated the first time I saw Veyron in a a mag , if I remember correctly with the exquisite tool kit displayed in the boot . It never looked classy especially the first one's that came in a single tone unlike the 2 tone version which looks really great . In 2002 ,they tried showing off in front of prospectable customers and they even flopped in it . What really got me ,was this years reviews on Veyorn , the effort that has gone into making one of the fastest production missile cars, I mean just look at the acceleration figures ...now am sure there are many others which can beat it .....may be not many but few dragsters , and pumped up cars may ....but this car is stock tuned ...means its safe enough and tested to do it cooly ...without swearing...... just imagine this...1.............2.............3.............. 4.............5............6.............7....7.3( I have no idea how one can count that way... ) ...and now its 200 on the speedo.
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Old 8th October 2006, 13:06   #45
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Hello Sujay , no offense meant but do you mean to compare Veyron with a Corvette ? or a Skyline ? its pointless . Bugatti is an exquisitely detailed sports car , designed to blend luxury and perfomance to perfection . The design the detail of the car is astounding , these arent my words , these are the same said by many Journs from around the world . Ii can do a ton in 2.5 secs , a 200 in around 7.3 secs , 300 in around 16 secs , top whack of around 253 mph (again a debatable figure.) in under a minute . The focus is on how it achieves it . How stable it feels at such accelerations , such enormous transfer of power , and how the driver is cocconed from all this . Thats where it stands above the rest . So sujay u mean to say even an Mc F1 is waste not to mention Pagani Zonda ..Ascari , Koenigg CCR . I get what your point is that you prefer a more economical power like an M6 . Unlike an M6, these machines are not more many . These are built to demand respect and to make us know where we have reached or where we can reach in terms of Automotive excellence and how these technologies can be adopted in near future to a mere mortal's car !
I never said that cars like the CCX, Mclaren F1 are a waste. The McLaren F1 GTR is still my all time favourite supercar. In fact coming back to the topic of the thread, IMO the Carrera GT 9ff is a better supercar than the Veyron. Again different people have different ways of looking at supercars. WHile you may prefer the above mentioned features, for me it's pure performance. I don't care about safety, luxury etc. If it's fast and handles and brakes well, it's my favourite car. I will never give up driving experience for "other" things.
Btw, the M6 is a sports coupe and is in a different category. What I meant before was cars like the CCX, Zonda F, Carrera GT etc. Also from my signature you must have noticed that I'm a Corvette fan too.
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