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Old 11th October 2016, 15:28   #16
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Germany does not manufacture commercial aircraft so this is moot.

.

Airbus alone employs more then 17.000 people in Germany.

http://www.airbus.com/company/worldw...us-in-germany/
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Old 11th October 2016, 15:35   #17
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Airbus alone employs more then 17.000 people in Germany.
If Germany has to abstain from hydrocarbon fuel by 2030 should we assume that they made their comment taking into consideration aviation business as well ?

In my previous post i was assuming Germany may not welcome any emission from any vehicle/ air plane what so ever done in German soil.
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Old 11th October 2016, 15:45   #18
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
If Germany has to abstain from hydrocarbon fuel by 2030 should we assume that they made their comment taking into consideration aviation business as well ?

In my previous post i was assuming Germany may not welcome any emission from any vehicle/ air plane what so ever done in German soil.
They are not going to abstain from hydrocarbon fuel from 2030. First of all this is not law yet. Secondly it applies to new cars only. So it will be a little longer before there are no petrol/diesel cars on the roads in Germany.

Although Germany, like many other European countries is taking a very active stand already on car pollution. Most major German cities have these so called Umwelt zones. Only clean (modern) cars are allowed in. I canít take any of my old cars, including my 1982 Mercedes W123 in those towns/zones.

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Old 11th October 2016, 15:48   #19
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
If Germany has to abstain from hydrocarbon fuel by 2030 should we assume that they made their comment taking into consideration aviation business as well ?

In my previous post i was assuming Germany may not welcome any emission from any vehicle/ air plane what so ever done in German soil.
I highly doubt that this is in their sphere of influence. Germany serves as one of the largest transit hubs in Europe, which means Airline carriers from across the globe fly in and out on a daily basis. Some airlines from outside the EU even operate double dailies into Germany. With that as a background, if Germany were to extend this to Air planes as well, this would mean that airlines across the globe would need to change it's fleet configuration, which we know is a long drawn and mighty expensive process.

Yes, Germany could always implement this rule for it's home carrier Lufthansa, but I wonder how they will have other Global Airlines sign up for this.

Last edited by iceman7 : 11th October 2016 at 15:50.
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Old 11th October 2016, 22:58   #20
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

I feel blessed to be in a generation which saw so much change, the magnetic tape, CD and now the memory chip. The film roll cam to a digital cam, VCR to CD player to Hard drive. I remember mourning my cassette taps, and my SLR cam the most. Never thought I will have to mourn the petrol engine in this lifetime. What the time has come to.

Coincidentally I have been thinking since last 3 weeks that this is going to come. I see myself buying a electric car in 10 years as the only choice left, I don't know if I will be happy to do that or sad, on the other hand my wife bought one 5 years back, and I know for sure she has always been ahead of times. I used to have a laugh every now and then on her Reva just to tease her [otherwise I have very high regards for Reva], now I think she will have the last laugh.

So Guys be prepared, there is no point fighting it. The only thing permanent is change.
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Old 11th October 2016, 23:22   #21
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Only zero emission vehicles to be allowed after that. So the country that was the birthplace of the engine has decided to ban it in another 14 years.

http://gizmodo.com/german-lawmakers-...-en-1787574000
They are just shifting pollution to third world countries and china because battery tech like it or not requires lithium which I am not mistaken comes from Bolivia, china and what will happen to those end of life battery? Will they ship to Bangladesh for recycling?
Basically they are creating a blue print for planned obsolescence that's what industry wants. Just see mobiles pioneered by Apple with incremental update of existing tech they have created a nice business for themselves. This what industry wants and politician are hand in glove with them.

After Note 7 incident I would prefer a ICE car than exploding battery car. If German are really serious why not ban aircraft as they also pollute.
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Old 12th October 2016, 08:51   #22
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Airbus alone employs more then 17.000 people in Germany.

http://www.airbus.com/company/worldw...us-in-germany/
But isn't that a French company?

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Originally Posted by FrozeninTime View Post
If German are really serious why not ban aircraft as they also pollute.
But look at the relative amount of pollution caused by one 737 flying from say Chennai to Bangalore versus several cars driving down the GQ packed with the passengers on that aircraft.

Yes people prefer to drive rather than fly due to Bangalore airport being in the middle of nowhere so a cab from there to your home might cost more than your diesel bills for the drive from Chennai, but in my case - I was once ticketed on an air india blr maa plane that got cancelled, and after making us wait for four hours claiming flight delay, they finally loaded all the passengers into about 15 Innovas, drove us to Chennai airport. Started from my bangalore hotel at noon, reached my chennai apartment close to 3 am.
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Old 12th October 2016, 09:04   #23
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
But isn't that a French company?
i
Yes, that is correct, but that was not the point. The statement was
Quote:
Germany does not manufacture commercial aircraft so this is moot
Itís also worthwhile to remember that it was actually the German government as one on the main backers of the European initiative that became Airbus.

We still think of companies being a certain nationality based on where they happen to have their headquarters.

I work for Ericsson, a Swedish Company in the sense it has itís headquarter in Stockholm, Sweden. But the country with the largest Ericsson employee base is actually India!

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Old 12th October 2016, 10:09   #24
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

The area where i live (Aachen - close to Netherlends/Belgium border) we have massive coal mines and equally massive powerplants operating on coal. I was too surprised to see them puffing out tons of white smoke to the area and the local Germans told me that they are going to be there untilll 2030! So it looks like 2030 is kind of magic year that German government is planning to pull off their best trick!
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Old 13th October 2016, 20:44   #25
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

Electricity generation in major countries still largely depends on coal. I think governments are making another mistake as they did through promoting Diesel engines. Governments must focus on clean energy first and meanwhile, they can continue implementing stricter emission regulations. They can promote electric vehicles only when dependency on coal, nuclear and fossil fuels for power generation is reduced, to a cumulative contribution below 50%.
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Old 13th October 2016, 23:51   #26
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Originally Posted by Mohd Faiz View Post
Electricity generation in major countries still largely depends on coal. I think governments are making another mistake as they did through promoting Diesel engines. Governments must focus on clean energy first and meanwhile, they can continue implementing stricter emission regulations. They can promote electric vehicles only when dependency on coal, nuclear and fossil fuels for power generation is reduced, to a cumulative contribution below 50%.
California's in state production from Coal is 0.3%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California I live in Southern California, every other house is going solar. I went Solar this year, and I generate much more power than our annual usage. My electricity meter literally spins reverse during the day time. The utility companies do not want excess generation from private homes, so they limit the capacity of installation to the average usage in the previous year. Else, I would have installed a much bigger system. For locations that get 12 hours of sunlight, it makes complete sense to go solar. I mention California, because we take the lead interms of environmental causes. Rest of the US follows - eventually.

I ride my bicycle to work in the summer. If I get a Tesla model 3, I will be able to curb all emissions in the winter months as well.

Private citizens will not decide to make all this investment without clear direction in policies and incentives. I can only wish the leaders of the US learn from the moves made by Germans. Go Green!!!

Last edited by prasadee : 14th October 2016 at 00:00.
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Old 14th October 2016, 01:13   #27
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Originally Posted by Mohd Faiz View Post
Electricity generation in major countries still largely depends on coal.
Not so sure about that. Many western countries have moved away from coal decades ago. All coal mines were shut down in the Netherlands in the early 60ís. Since all household have been run on gas. Now, by law, by 2020 all new houses being build need to be emission neutral. So all new houses come equipped with solar panels, hybrid heating systems (no gas, or very little)


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Originally Posted by Mohd Faiz View Post
They can promote electric vehicles only when dependency on coal, nuclear and fossil fuels for power generation is reduced, to a cumulative contribution below 50%.
Are you sure? I thought it was 51.73%

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Old 14th October 2016, 06:13   #28
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

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Many western countries have moved away from coal decades ago.
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Originally Posted by prasadee View Post
California's in state production from Coal is 0.3%.
In US, the contribution of fossil fuels in enrgy production for the year 2014 was 66% (38% from coal) and nuclear contributed for 19%. In UK, the contribution for the same year was 60% from fossil fuels and 20% from nuclear. China is getting 70% of total energy only from coal fired power stations!. Even Germany is depending on coal for more than 40% of electricity generation. (Source: Wikipedia, refer pages of energy generation for each countries).
There is no doubt about the future of solar energy in sustainable energy generation. My opinion is goverment must focus on energy sector first and then the automotive secotors.
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Old 24th October 2016, 00:41   #29
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

Has Germany has made it official ? Are they banning all fossil fuel vehicles by 2030 ?

Came across this video being shared on FB :
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Old 24th October 2016, 06:50   #30
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Default Re: Germany votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030

To be honest, much as I would have liked to believe this, I don't think the announcement would come anywhere close to becoming a law. Maybe they will enforce tighter emission standards but they cannot make a law to ban the IC engine.
Why do I say this:
1. What about companies that don't have EV technologies and cannot afford the same ? Will they be forced to shut shop?
2. On what basis will they implement this? Pollution? An airplane causes just 10% less pollution per passenger per mile than a car with a solo driver. This is going to improve in the future as cars become more efficient.
3. Where is the Lithium used in batteries going to come from? At the current rate of extraction, less than 50% of Li reserves will remain by 2060. What after that? What if recycling does not become as widespread as we expect it to be?
4. Employment: Much has been said of the number of people employed by the oil and gas companies. What happens to them?
5. Green energy: Yes, it is true that Germany is not using nuclear power. Instead, it is burning wood waste and biomass in its power plants. This is understandable since PV and wind won't give a baseline load. They depend on biomass and natural gas for that.

These announcements make good headlines (like the Autonomous Car for example) but the sweeping statements mask the enormous engineering challenges that underlie this step. Maybe this will happen, but it cannot happen in the next 14 years. Current technology won't permit it.
If people manage to make graphene work in the industry and provide an alternative to Lithium that is cheap and reliable, things will move in this direction.
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