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Old 28th June 2017, 08:44   #31
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

It can go either way depending on the individual but I feel one car of any size, will teach the owner, specially if he/she is in their late teens, responsibility. Yes I also know that this is the era of downsizing and with all the noise about pollution, clogged roads, Uber being cool etc that car ownership has substantially reduced but I still can see a logic in the above statement.

No, it can't be bikes, only cars. Its something to do with the size, and having to learn the skills to clean, maintain and drive it that feels so classy in a time like today. I'm glad that I've been driving ever since I reached the legal age.. one tends to pick up the finer mechanical and maintenance do's and don't's much quicker at a young age. In comparison people who start driving in late 20's or early 30's do not pick up the finer aspects of driving as quick.. of course purely my observations, not necessarily a thumb rule.

It is easy and takes no skill to just swipe and type for a cab, just open the door with reckless abandon and seat yourself in, its tougher to take the keys, gently open the door without touching any walls at the side and self-drive your way to the destination.. I feel this teaches tremendous responsibility and patience, not to mention as I said before, it lays the earliest foundation of maturity and settling down. Again my observations/experiences only.

Also as Anand has correctly mentioned above, "millennials" (I don't care for that term at all, its another one of those useless classifications like teens/tweens etc) in India should be split into the 80's lot and the 90's lot. One still believes in shaving every morning, wearing crisply ironed clothes with tie/suit and wearing a watch, driving to work and the other grabs and puts on whatever is available, wears an Apple watch if no watch at all and orders an UBER to work. I'm not saying this is stereotyped nor am I criticizing the other way of life at all, I'm only impressed by their free-spiritedness which isn't as much for a mid-80's guy like myself.
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Old 28th June 2017, 08:50   #32
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

Cheap? Haha, no. The millennials spend far more, and save a lot less, if at all, compared to generations that have come before them.

I've always felt that car companies have ridden a coup for almost a century. It is the only big money item that loses value, has been essential because moving about has been essential, and the ownership experience is shoddy.

For most people driving has been a chore. A mundane part of "work" that needed to be done, and if they could afford it, they'd pay someone else to do it.

All of it has become worse, quite a bit, the ownership experience, the driving experience, the safety of being on the road, and the cost, and at the same time, it is becoming non-essential.

Let self driving cars become mainstream, and see if these same guys don't line up to buy 'em, like they do for their iPhones.
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Old 28th June 2017, 11:06   #33
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

Interesting topic. And having interacted a lot with millennials, I can share some thoughts or lets see observations.

Desire for car ownership continues unabated among millennials who are from small-mid towns, from typical Indian families, average level students, average level world awareness, average level professional ambitions (do not confuse with financial ambitions).

However, such desire is almost missing amongst youngsters who want to work for Google or Tesla or design chips or build a drone etc. Such kids are smart, very well read, super ambitious. They don't have time or energy to waste on maintaining a car - they'd rather work, gym, play sports, or study or play games on their PS.

A related point - hi tech companies are really struggling to figure these chaps out, how to retain them and keep them motivated. The usual baits - money, promotions, foreign travel - don't work for them.

In my workplace we have both above types of millennials - and the difference between the groups is stark.

Simply put, car ownership isn't that hot anymore amongst the cool folks.

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Old 28th June 2017, 14:36   #34
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

3. Marriage prospects improve. Fact. Just ask the guy who's family has never owned a car.


As someone who was "on the market" for a long time, I found this quite amusing. When I look back now, I always conclude that the things that were holding me back from experiencing blissful companionship could directly be attributed to my complicated thinking and all sorts of nonsensical notions about life. I was definitely getting in my own way.

It never occurred to me that a lack of four wheels could also have been the reason. But, GTO could very well be right.

For my part, the only thing I would say to all the single guys (and girls) out there is that being single is totally overrated. Don't overthink it. Go out and get hitched. It's the best thing that you can do for yourself. And if you have to buy a spanky new ride to help make a case for yourself, by all means, go right ahead. Plonk down the cash, grab those keys and do not look back. Instead, look forward to the start of all sorts of new journeys.
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Old 28th June 2017, 15:30   #35
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

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I have an opposite view. I don't think this is a big issue in India. Assuming the definitions of Millennials to be those born in the early eighties to early nineties period (~23-33 years today), I think that it is this generation that is really driving the sales of the entry premium/premium hatch/Pseudo SUV Segment- The likes of the Grand i10, Tiago, Baleno, i20, Brezza and even the Creta. 4-5 models that contribute 40-50% of sales in India.
I can personally relate with this. We have a really low running and had a fully functional i10 as our workhorse. But since property market was down and confused after demonetization, we casually explored new cars and eventually ended up buying top end Creta, mainly for the aspirational value of a big car. Rather the younger gen around me more enthusiastic about new cars than 40+ who prioritize family needs over everything else.
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Old 29th June 2017, 09:19   #36
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

I don't "get" the fascination or convenience factor of Ola/Uber as against car ownership. Here is the process one needs to follow to get to a destination using cab -
  • The first stressful part of booking a cab is timing. Since it takes anywhere between 5 and 15 mins for the cab to arrive outside the gates, one needs to time the cab booking perfectly. Make an error here and you arrive at your destination either too early or too late.
  • The next step is relatively easy - open the app and confirm booking.
  • The third step is to wait for the cab to arrive. According to me, the biggest irritant of hailing a cab is giving directions to the driver. Most cab drivers need multiple driving direction inputs via phone call.
  • What makes the wait worse is the uncertainty. Will he come in 15 mins? or 5 mins? Will he arrive at all? Approximately 1 in 10 cases have resulted in no show. Because the cab driver couldn't follow the directions or because cab driver didn't want to go to the destination - they usually call up and ask "ellige saar?"
  • Things pick up a lot after the car arrives. But then again, in 1 out of 10 cases, there are issues like no seatbelts, no AC or dirty cab.

Driving own car offers a very stable experience - battery giving up and car not starting is the only uncertainty factor involved. For those who find 'ola/uber' convenient, I have the following tips -

1) Get an AT car
2) Upgrade your music system
3) Make sure you have 4G internet on your mobile (use your mobile while waiting at traffic signals)
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Old 29th June 2017, 09:28   #37
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I don't "get" the fascination or convenience factor of Ola/Uber as against car ownership. Here is the process one needs to follow to get to a destination using cab -
I completely understand and agree with your points.

But. There are certain reasons why people overlook the points you have mentioned. I myself held off buying a car for a year until it was very necessary, used Uber in the meantime despite experiencing the points you have mentioned (surge pricing included):

1) Parking: I have a dedicated covered car park but I know several who park their cars on the road, vulnerable to dings, theft and sabotage
2) Need for a cab on a fun night out: on that fun friday/sat night when you are going to town, you won't be driving back anyway and need a cab
3) Uncertainty of domicile at one place: you'll be surprised how many people don't buy a vehicle for this reason:

a) the IT folks have a foot out of the city or country at any point of time, owning a car is a liability, esp since most live away from family, who could have otherwise looked after the car
b) likelihood of moving cities and then dealing with the "'out-of-state" mess

4) Uber/Ola is decently cheap, not exorbitant that'd burn a hole in the pocket (except if you only during peak office hours when there's surge pricing)
5) Traffic: taxis allow you the peace of mind of not being the driver in a two hour bumper-bumper traffic
6) Popularity of self-drive rentals: Uber/Ola with self-drive rentals effectively have your transport needs covered

Quote:
For those who find 'ola/uber' convenient, I have the following tips -

1) Get an AT car
2) Upgrade your music system
3) Make sure you have 4G internet on your mobile (use your mobile while waiting at traffic signals)
No offense, but these points (esp the third) are very frivolous given the context of this discussion

Last edited by libranof1987 : 29th June 2017 at 09:30.
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Old 29th June 2017, 10:20   #38
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
it dawned on me that I was part of the problem - In my case, if i cant catch an uber, I am screwed. If she can't catch an uber, she usually calls me or my parents up and whines until I am forced to drop/pick her up
Don't mean to generalise, but I have seen many cases where the wife/sister/female member of the house does not care to learn to drive, or even if they do learn, they don't want to. I have often seen my aunts/cousins not willing to drive and their spouses/family members are forced to act as chauffeurs.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:02   #39
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

There are many such articles going around. It all comes down to minimalism. There is a movie on Netflix with the same name by the minimalists.

I am currently debt free, no house and no car/bike. Sold my last car in November and bike in 2015

It is simply stress free life. I don't have to worry about things like driver, petrol, cleaning, tyres, parking and service.

There is Uber, train for transportation and Myles, zoomcar for when I feel like driving in cases my friends don't lend me their car.

Today I unsubscribed from Netflix as well as a new experiment.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:25   #40
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

Since i fit into the definition of "millennial", here's my perspective:
  • The first thing I did after starting to work was I saved for a year and bought a car with minimalistic loan. That was in 2011. (The next thing I did was I joined TeamBHP). This car is still with me and i don't even give a thought of buying another as driving a car and specially parking it has become more and more difficult in the cities. I hardly take the car out and use my scooter for any runabouts. Cheap and convenient.
  • Hardly anyone stays in one city for the entire career nowadays, infact most change places in 5-6 years. So buying a house and locking money doesn't make sense. The maintenance is inconvenient as well.
    For cars I guess this factor would not influence buying decision if a central tax paying/registration system is in place.
    It's better to save the money or travel.
  • Lastly if such ugly cars like Ignis are brought in market saying "car for the millennials", we are bound to lose interest in buying cars.

Last edited by saion666 : 29th June 2017 at 11:26.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:50   #41
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

I think it's largely down to three factors - careers today, parking/expense and emergence of alternatives.

Careers Today: Irrespective of what field you work in today, constant travel out of town is almost guaranteed. It's no longer just top execs who leave the office for meetings/events. This means your car lands up unused very often. It's one thing to buy a depreciating asset and another to not even justify the expense.

Parking/Expense: In major metros (where a large share of the car buying population resides), it's nearly impossible to get a parking spot. In Mumbai, your residential parking spot can cost more than your car itself. In my case, my car is unused throughout the week. The sheer amount of traffic and lack of enough car parking at the office means it's just silly to bother taking my car out, even with the comfort it'd offer me in the monsoons.

In the rains, my 15km commute takes 1.5 hours by bike. You can imagine the nightmare it'd be in a car.

Alternatives: Biggest factor IMO. Ride sharing is becoming a big part of every automaker's agenda. The fact is, when you factor in the car price, fuel expense, parking charges, insurance, maintenance and the mental stress of driving in India, app based cab services turn out to be a lot cheaper even at peak rates. Especially when you factor in the chauffeur service you get.

Also, public transport is so much cheaper and hassle free once you get used to it. Importantly, you can use your travel time to get work done or learn something. Case in point: The Mumbai metro is now extending through the western suburbs and South Bombay. It has absolutely crushed mobility in its construction phase and brought Mumbai to its knees but once operational, I can see a lot of people dropping their cars/bikes in favour of the metro. Soon, we'll have public transport for point-to-point connectivity and the Ubers/Olas of the world for last mile connectivity. For weekends, people can get a self driven rental car. Crumbling car sales are a given, which is why in India the semi-urban regions will be of great importance to car makers.

Last edited by moralfibre : 29th June 2017 at 11:56. Reason: Typo
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Old 29th June 2017, 14:31   #42
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

I am not sure if I fall under the 'millennial' category (I am 32). For me owning my first car (which I still do) 7 years ago, was the most magical moment in life. Just one look at my white beauty at the time of delivery and my knees went week. I don't even remember how the first 10000kms flew-by. Such was my love for my car. Today 7 years later, she is at 54000kms young. Since my wife is not on T-BHP, I can go on to confess that even my marriage, after a courtship of 4 years wasn't as exciting

Nowadays driving has become a pain in the backside. My left leg curses me atleast twice a day everyday. My neck muscles pain from all the craning out I need to do on the lookout for moronic 3-wheelers. I dread going out on weekends and come up with idiotic excuses to avoid it. So much so that I have bought another car for my wife (which btw is an automatic, since she refuses to touch my car with a barge pole because it is too wide and too big for her tastes), so I can get retirement from my driving duties.

I plan to keep my car as long as eBay runs out of spare parts for my car. For me, car ownership is no longer exciting, is a financial disaster and is no longer the only mobility solution available, compared to some years ago.

OTOH, my dad owned his first car at the age of 46. Today, 14 years later, he is on his 4th car. That's less than 4 years of average ownership per car. Thankfully, he says he has had enough of cars and agrees with most of my views.

I think the way forward, keeping the environment and finances in consideration, will be reliance on public transport. I know our country is not bestowed with the best public transport facilities, but we will surely get there.

I dream of a day when I can take a cycle to the nearest metro station and walk from the destination metro station to my office.

Last edited by racer_ash : 29th June 2017 at 14:32. Reason: punctuations
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Old 29th June 2017, 15:18   #43
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

Its not only the millennials. At diwali last year, my 78 year old father wanted to buy an innova but i convinced him with his use age that does not make financial sense.. So we bought an ertiga and he has been very happy with the purchase and saving close to 7 lakhs in the process. Shortly after my parent's driver left for good to his village and after trying some really disappointing "drivers", they started using DriveU which was excellent initially.. now with DriveU scaling up, the quality of drivers has come down (in our experience).

With the bad quality of private drivers or our inability to get a good one, tired of dinks in their new car and dismal fuel economy my parents have been using uber for the last month. They order Uber XL for comfort and they are super happy on their day-trips. With just the money they saved by not buying the Innova, we calculated they can use uber for almost 15 years (including 15% appreciation)! They don't move around too much.. the last 5 year old car they sold had done 22000km...

The car parked in their house is more psychological than for utility. I occasionally use their car just to ensure that its being moved. Important to note that for emergencies, my wife and i are usually available at a moments notice as we both work from home. Till recently my parents lived elsewhere and they had a 24/7 driver for emergencies alone.

I'm 39 and my wife and I have a car each but I will be selling my car shortly as its rarely used. Important to note, we love love roadtrips and I don't see us without a car ever.

Last edited by akshay : 29th June 2017 at 15:19.
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Old 29th June 2017, 16:36   #44
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

here in Japan, the youngsters are totally against owning a Car. This is because of high parking charges, high insurance cost and very high maintenance cost. But almost every one owns a Bicycle. The Bicycles are fitted with carriers and these are enough for the kind of shopping Japs like.

But it's a tough call not having a car for we Indians. Right from walking a few hundred meters to the nearest station to hauling the shopping bags. Cycling is anyways out of bounds for our kind of life style (call it unhealthy).

In India I am sure one cannot lead a comfortable life without a car. Even with Uber and Ola, the chance of getting a dingy cab is very high. Forget the Buses. They are outright smelly and full of uncultured people in most cases. Some educated looking morons don't mind wiping their shoes against your crisp cotton trouser!
Imagine hauling the shopping bags in a public transport bus, its close to impossible.

if one has the moolah, there is no reason for not owning a car in India!
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Old 29th June 2017, 17:02   #45
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Default Re: The Cheapest Generation - Why Millennials arenít buying cars or houses

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
3) Uncertainty of domicile at one place: you'll be surprised how many people don't buy a vehicle for this reason:

a) the IT folks have a foot out of the city or country at any point of time, owning a car is a liability, esp since most live away from family, who could have otherwise looked after the car
b) likelihood of moving cities and then dealing with the "'out-of-state" mess
This is actually true. These days, jobs expect an unrealistically high degree of mobility that it makes getting a car or a house impossible.
In the past 10 years, my work has taken me across three countries, 4 states within india, and 3 offices all over chennai (well over an hours travel apart)

Keeping a car in between all this is pretty challenging (and is one of the reasons I'm sticking to my old car - while its service costs are high, i have to service it only if i use it, unlike a new car for which i would have to pay emi regardless). I cannot even imagine the logistics issues if I was constrained by an own house here
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