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Old 26th July 2017, 07:26   #1
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Exclamation Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

As part of a government strategy to improve air quality, Britain is to ban all new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2040 amid fears that rising levels of nitrogen oxide pose a major risk to public health. Plans follow French commitment to take polluting vehicles off the road owing to effect of poor air quality on people’s health.

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Originally Posted by Guardian
The government warned that the move, which will also take in hybrid vehicles, was needed because of the unnecessary and avoidable impact that poor air quality was having on people’s health.

Ministers have been urged to introduce charges for vehicles to enter a series of “clean air zones” (CAZ). However, the government only wants taxes to be considered as a final resort amid a backlash against any move that punishes motorists.

The French president took the steps to help his country meet its targets under the Paris climate accord, in an announcement that came a day after Volvo said it would only make fully electric or hybrid cars from 2019 onwards.
The general consensus among public is that the target is too far away and that Britain really shouldn't wait till 2040 for this.

Guess no other manufacturer has helped planet Earth in the recent past as much as VW with its diesel-gate. The backlash against internal combustion engines has never been this bad.

Personally, I am sad at this development. But I guess we have no other go but take drastic steps to save our planet.

source, source
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Old 26th July 2017, 14:57   #2
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/b...-article-click

Looks like diesels might see their end much faster. We all argued when there was some ban on diesel cars in India. Everywhere else, the same is being contemplated
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Old 26th July 2017, 15:34   #3
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

Apart from announcing this ban, they have also hastened the process for a new 3 billion GBP fund to the various local councils to clean up the dirty atmosphere around their local area. Other measures include new low-emission buses, cycle tracks, improving the charging infrastructure, and an additional grant for plug-in schemes. This drastic step is further supported by a report that claims that UK's high pollution is responsible for over 40,000 premature deaths a year.

Link to Team-BHP News.

Last edited by blackwasp : 26th July 2017 at 15:40.
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Old 27th July 2017, 07:12   #4
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

Hybrids exempt from Britain's petrol and diesel car ban.

The ban won't affect cars with hybrid and plug-in hybrid drivetrains, but rather "conventional petrol and diesel cars".

Government unveils £2.7bn plan to tackle air pollution; older vehicles may eventually be allowed.

The paper also mentions further possible exemptions for combustion engine cars, once air quality levels improve to a satisfactory point.

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Old 27th July 2017, 09:40   #5
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

In Clarkson's usual sarcasm, this is environMENTALism to the nth degree. What's that guarantee that banning IC engined cars by 2040 gonna save the planet? Is a committee responsible or answerable? The IC engine has survived almost 2 centuries now and I still believe it'd continue to survive keeping the Middle East rich and famous. Anyway, 2040 is a long way off and a million things could change by then; definitely hoping one of them is not the lovely IC engined car. I'll give up on cars if it did. No offence meant, but no hybrid/electric nonsense for me.
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Old 27th July 2017, 16:18   #6
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
...Looks like diesels might see their end much faster. We all argued when there was some ban on diesel cars in India. Everywhere else, the same is being contemplated
The mob is not always right. The world has progressed because of people who went against the tide, challenged mob thinking, were ridiculed because of it, and then won.
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Old 27th July 2017, 16:25   #7
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

This was the same govt that kept pushing everybody to buy diesels in the 90's over petrol cars because it put out less co2 and was hence nicer for the planet. Now they have concluded that diesels are the work of the devil and everyone should get rid of them after having forced everybody to buy them in the first place.
Whats to say that this new bright idea is actually full of hot air as the last one?
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Old 28th July 2017, 07:16   #8
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

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Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
I'll give up on cars if it did. No offence meant, but no hybrid/electric nonsense for me.
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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Whats to say that this new bright idea is actually full of hot air as the last one?
Can't comment on whether electric will indeed end up being better than fuel-based engines (mostly because batteries require mining of 100x more toxic elements), but I do agree that a singular obsession to ban any and all fuels will lead to more problems than ever before. The wheels of the propaganda are turning faster than ever, why? Here's why :

Quote:
It's not every day that you hear a a titan of industry say, "Next time, I'm buying Brand X." But as the automotive industry hurdles toward an electric future, the man who runs Royal Dutch Shell - aka Shell Oil - says the next car he buys will have electric power.

Chief Executive Officer Ben Van Beurden is switching from a diesel car to a plug-in hybrid Mercedes-Benz S500e in September, a Shell spokesman said.

Now, it's not like he's buying a Nissan Leaf. The S500e gets 24 mpg city, 30 highway - a 2.5-ton, 436-combined-horsepower Benz that can do 0-to-60 in 5.2 seconds. However, a Shell spokesman says Chief Financial Officer Jessica Uhl already drives a BMW i3.
And I've nothing more to add to this. Now its CLEAR which direction automotion is headed towards, whether anyone approves or not.

Source :http://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/27/s...lug-in-hybrid/
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Old 28th July 2017, 09:44   #9
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I agree, hybrid and electric cars are the future of automobile industry. While I am not aware of the environmental implications of manufacturing batteries and other components specific to electric car production, if most of the European countries (including the Nordic ones) are moving in this direction, then there must have been some due diligence and thorough research done by these countries.
In London, I can already see the positive side of a road with bumper to bumper traffic and with around 40% cars either hybrid or electric. The immediate, obvious benefit seems to be less exhaust fumes to inhale, not to mention reduced Noise pollution (even as per London's standard).
No wonder then that Hybrid and electric cars are on a rise in UK with support from government initiatives such as reduced taxes, no congestion charges, etc. Year 2040 then seems to be a very easy target to achieve for UK.
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Old 28th July 2017, 10:15   #10
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

The more I read about IC cars slated to go defunct due to environmental concerns, the more I recall George Carlin's jibes at environmentalists.

Whilst I understand the need for renewable energy and waste management, I don't understand the hue and cry over saving the planet. I especially do not understand the arm-chair environmentalists and their 'real' primary concern being the cleanliness of the environment, limited to their vicinity.

And have we sufficiently explored the option of ethanol-compatible IC cars?
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Old 28th July 2017, 11:58   #11
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Thumbs up Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
----snip----Whilst I understand the need for renewable energy and waste management, I don't understand the hue and cry over saving the planet. I especially do not understand the arm-chair environmentalists and their 'real' primary concern being the cleanliness of the environment, limited to their vicinity.---snip----
I reckon this is not so simple. Climate change is a very real and looming threat on our horizon, and irreversible damage is perhaps closer than what we surmise. Maybe we ought to read the article below to come face to face with the ugly truth.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...or-humans.html

Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040-too-hot.png

Cheers !

(Pic and article Courtesy : nymag.com)
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Old 28th July 2017, 15:51   #12
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

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Originally Posted by Ironhide View Post
I reckon this is not so simple. Climate change is a very real and looming threat on our horizon, and irreversible damage is perhaps closer than what we surmise. Maybe we ought to read the article below to come face to face with the ugly truth.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...or-humans.html

Attachment 1661688

Cheers !

(Pic and article Courtesy : nymag.com)
I understand your concern. But I believe we are caught up in the whole "save the planet" narrative without addressing the real problem. We need to save ourselves, because the real threat here is not the planet's existence, but the human race's.

The planet is massive. 90% of our oceans and water bodies are virtually uncharted. There are acres and acres of land on the planet that haven't been explored. The radius of the Earth is about 6500 km and the average thickness of the Earth's continental crust is about 35 km. If my memory serves me right, the human race, up until recently, has been able to penetrate the surface only up to 10 kilometers. That's about 0.5% of the Earth's radius.

The Earth itself has been in existence for about 4 billion years. The human race has been around for maybe 100,000 years, of which we have been engaged in heavy industry for only about 150 years. Several species of flora and fauna have ceased to exist prior to human intervention. On the other hand, several species of flora and fauna have appeared, and we had nothing to do with that either.

The Earth has been through a whole lot worse during it's existence. Earthquakes, volcanoes, tectonic shifts in plates, tidal waves, meteors and what have you! And we think the auto industry is a threat to our planet and it's environment? Ha!

We are not a threat to our planet. We are a threat to our own existence!

As Carlin had so eloquently stated: "We are nothing but a surface nuisance!" The planet will shrug us off like "we are a bad case of fleas". We are nothing but a minor allergy on the planet's skin. A rash, if you will! We will be long gone, whilst the Earth will proceed to cleanse itself and continue to exist for another billion years.

We as a human race are not 'really' concerned about the planet. What we are really concerned about is our immediate environment and it's cleanliness. As long as what's in our immediate vicinity is devoid of litter, we will create the illusion for ourselves that the environment is clean.

The Auto Industry is small fry when compared to the damage caused to the environment by animal farming and animal husbandry. 80% of the methane in the atmosphere comes from cows' arses (pardon my French). The sheer number of cesspools created are a direct result of animal farming.

What they are effectively doing by suspending the production of IC engines - with the intention to "save the planet" - is attempting to cure a mental illness by administering medication for diarrhea!

So, really.. what purpose are we serving by suspending the production of IC engines? We are pandering to a certain class of self-righteous and directionless environmental-elite who are seemingly concerned about the environment, and in order to portray this image, they buy electric / hybrid cars for their benefit, whilst believing that they are somehow superior to all other people by driving hybrids and electric cars, in their hopeless attempt at redemption. This, after their governments and industries had plundered the environment for the best part of 100 years in the name of development.

Sure, electric cars are good. And they will certainly reduce toxic gasses at the street level. But the human race will continue to utilize our planet for as long as we are around, for the better or for the worse.

Staying the production and use of IC cars will serve a small purpose as far as the environment is concerned. It's merely a small step in the grand scheme of things. What we need as a race is self awareness. We need to address the actual problem, lest we perish like the numerous other species that have perished in the past.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 28th July 2017 at 16:32.
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Old 28th July 2017, 16:46   #13
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

I think the biggest issue was with diesel fuel. Car makers promised that with the new technology (common-rail) they were giving us clean cars. Real world figures are laying bare their contention. This is having a detrimental impact on the whole IC engine range. for ex just to make sure the consumer doesnt have to top up urea in exhaust cleanup and keep the tanks small, they used it measly in their process.

Air pollution, global warming is something where the effect will be seen across the globe uniformly. It doesnt matter if we study it only at few places and think remaining part of earth is healthy.

Last edited by srishiva : 28th July 2017 at 16:48.
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Old 28th July 2017, 19:46   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I understand your concern. But I believe we are caught up in the whole "save the planet" narrative without addressing the real problem. We need to save ourselves, because the real threat here is not the planet's existence, but the human race's.
I Agree. It's all about saving ourselves. After all that is embedded in our DNA. But what about saving the planet - to leave it the way we inherited it for our children. Unsurpassed greed is fast wiping out rainforests, glaciers, leading to increase in temperatures and sea levels. It's our greed tht's causing rapid depletion of the available fish in the vast oceans, with some species tottering on the brink of extinction owing to over harvesting. Ditto for forest - unchecked logging and deforestation to bring land under cultivation is slowly eating away the planet's lungs.

Quote:
The planet is massive. 90% of our oceans and water bodies are virtually uncharted.There are acres and acres of land on the planet that haven't been explored.
Doubtful, but for now let's agree. But we're already overexploiting what's charted, and as I said, causing irreversible damage to the planet/ ocean's ecology.

Quote:
The radius of the Earth is about 6500 km and the average thickness of the Earth's continental crust is about 35 km. If my memory serves me right, the human race, up until recently, has been able to penetrate the surface only up to 10 kilometers. That's about 0.5% of the Earth's radius.
What's damaged is the atmosphere, that we breathe in. And as a result it renders water, and some portion of the surface unfit for habitation.

Quote:
The Earth itself has been in existence for about 4 billion years. The human race has been around for maybe 100,000 years, of which we have been engaged in heavy industry for only about 150 years. Several species of flora and fauna have ceased to exist prior to human intervention. On the other hand, several species of flora and fauna have appeared, and we had nothing to do with that either.
Quoting from a NASA document
Quote:
The role of human activity
In its Fifth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 95 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet.

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million in the last 150 years. The panel also concluded there's a better than 95 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307
The Earth has been through a whole lot worse during it's existence. Earthquakes, volcanoes, tectonic shifts in plates, tidal waves, meteors and what have you! And we think the auto industry is a threat to our planet and it's environment? Ha!

We are not a threat to our planet. We are a threat to our own existence!
I agree .
It is us, and our unchecked greed .

Quote:
As Carlin had so eloquently stated: "We are nothing but a surface nuisance!" The planet will shrug us off like "we are a bad case of fleas". We are nothing but a minor allergy on the planet's skin. A rash, if you will! We will be long gone, whilst the Earth will proceed to cleanse itself and continue to exist for another billion years.
Agree. But then shrugging us as a "bad case of fleas" will mean extinction of the species , if I read it correctly,. Right?

Quote:
We as a human race are not 'really' concerned about the planet. What we are really concerned about is our immediate environment and it's cleanliness. As long as what's in our immediate vicinity is devoid of litter, we will create the illusion for ourselves that the environment is clean.
Quote:
The Auto Industry is small fry when compared to the damage caused to the environment by animal farming and animal husbandry. 80% of the methane in the atmosphere comes from cows' arses (pardon my French). The sheer number of cesspools created are a direct result of animal farming.
I agree. But animal husbandry came about because of humans . Now it rests on us to find a way to limit and possibly reverse the damages that the approx 1.5 billion strong bovine population of the world does to the environment.

Name:  cow fart.png
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Quote:
What they are effectively doing by suspending the production of IC engines - with the intention to "save the planet" - is attempting to cure a mental illness by administering medication for diarrhea!

So, really.. what purpose are we serving by suspending the production of IC engines? We are pandering to a certain class of self-righteous and directionless environmental-elite who are seemingly concerned about the environment, and in order to portray this image, they buy electric / hybrid cars for their benefit, whilst believing that they are somehow superior to all other people by driving hybrids and electric cars, in their hopeless attempt at redemption. This, after their governments and industries had plundered the environment for the best part of 100 years in the name of development.
Quote:
Sure, electric cars are good. And they will certainly reduce toxic gasses at the street level. But the human race will continue to utilize our planet for as long as we are around, for the better or for the worse.

Staying the production and use of IC cars will serve a small purpose as far as the environment is concerned. It's merely a small step in the grand scheme of things. What we need as a race is self awareness. We need to address the actual problem, lest we perish like the numerous other species that have perished in the past.

Going by that analogy, we shouldn't do anything to combat this catastrophe that has been staring us in the face for a very long time, should we? If the developed nations are incorporating certain steps in limiting (not reversing - though that too needs to start somewhere) climate change, it must be after due diligence having been brought about by studying the causes and effects, I presume. Nations are cutting down dependence on fossil fuels massively, starting from switching to non renewable sources of energy to as this article suggests opting for greener modes of transport.

Climate change is real. It is causing untold damage to our environment, the one we live in, and need in order to survive. If the nations (including ours) are taking some steps to combat it, like what Britain is doing , after what I presume is thorough research, we ought to be thankful that there is indeed hope that our future generations will see a pristine sunset through a clear atmosphere, fit for breathing in, and not a smog covered dying of lights on a burnt out, dry and dead landscape.

Cheers !

(Image Courtesy : The internet)

Last edited by Ironhide : 28th July 2017 at 19:47.
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Old 28th July 2017, 22:07   #15
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Default Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars from 2040

A sad news for every petrolhead out there!

Never really understood the over the top haste in slashing the petrol/diesel cars out of the picture completely!
As an enthusiast I can never see myself driving any of those electric/hybrid tin boxes. I am old school that way and would still drive my old car running on good old internal combustion. And if laws get too harsh I might as well give up driving all together rather that drive an electric/hybrid.
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