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Old 13th February 2007, 01:37   #16
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
How many rallies does even Toyota enter into,heck they dont even have a performance division.
Toyota has been a former WRC winning rally team with Carlos Sainz & the Celica during the 90's. How many times has Fiat won the title?

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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
Fiat sells very well in europe,the Grande punto does,its the leading small hatch in the european market and fiat dosent sell a single car in USA,they have small practical cars for europe but none for Big is Better, America.
Correction, Fiat sells well in Italy & only recently has started doing OK in Europe. If you look back 2 years they were nearly bankrrupt & were going to be up for sale before the Italian Government stepped in & also the Grande Punto & the Panda turned out to be hit vehicles (that is one reason why they sold a stake in Ferrari to some Italian banks to raise some quick money). Fiat has been on the brink many times & if you look at neutral, unbiased markets like the UK you can see that Fiat there shares the same problems like it does in India like poor service & bad availablilty of spares, not to mention dodgy reliability.

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fiat dosent sell a single car in USA,they have small practical cars for europe but none for Big is Better, America.
That has more to do with Fiat's inability to produce big cars which can be successful in the US market rather than a policy decision not to tap the US market. Companies like Honda, Toyota, Suzuki, Ford sell their small & big cars in the US market & are quite successful at that. For eg. Jazz, Corolla, Aveo, Camry, Accord, Civic, CR-V, RAV4 etc.

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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
My 1.6 gives me 8-10kpl in city wich is good enough for a 100bhp car and on the highy it sure does close to 16kpl if driven lightly,but push it and it drops to 11-12kpl.anyway 2-3kpl wont save u a million ruppes.
Well my car weighs a similar amount & has more power but still is more fuel efficient than the 1.6 since it never falls below 10kmpl in the city & does give upto 16kmpl on the highway. How about that?

Last edited by iraghava : 13th February 2007 at 01:48.
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Old 13th February 2007, 02:41   #17
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Now when did I ever say that? Fifty big ones for the first guy that finds me saying that.
Roll over to post no.11 bud where you mentioned why the palio/ sienna are not brilliant enough in the indian context.

We really dont need to get into foreign land here.That could lead to a long,unwanted and fruitless discussion.Lets limit ourselves as to whether the cars are good for india or not.

But yeah. I do agree that you have a negative impression about fiat's products because you may have experienced them first hand.Thats perfectly justified if you talk through your experiences.Fools are the ones who talk about a car or malign a car based on hearsay rather than experience.I have experienced and owned two fiats in the past 4 years,and I have had mostly good things to say about the cars.In the same breath,I can say the a.s.s has been less than satifactory but is much better now.

And for the record, I did manage an 18kmpl highway run on my S10 a couple of months back on a trip to Surat.And I dont manage more than 8-9 kmpl in city.And where in mumbai would a baleno give 15kmpl.Its next to impossible.Yes 11kmpl is more like it.
I did compare the 1.2 nv with the swift and getz,but you're right there.My bad.The other two are more powerful and maybe a bit more fe,so the 1.2 does lose out there.But the difference in fe is marginal and certainly not big enough to really warrant a complete ignorance for the palio.

I stand by my point.The cars are good enough for the india and should do well in the future with some fantastic line up of cars,provided all else falls in place.

Last edited by roms : 13th February 2007 at 02:44.
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Old 13th February 2007, 03:50   #18
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Wow!! Another FIAT bashing thread here.

Why does it always happen with Fiat only? Are their cars so bad? :

I used to worship Fiat and still like them. But would never want to own them in near future.
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Old 13th February 2007, 04:53   #19
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
How many rallies does even Toyota enter into,heck they dont even have a performance division.
No, they only have an F1 team. And oh yeah, that Celica GT4 that used to wipe the rally floor clean with the other cars. Who was it, Sainz? And for the regular consumer, they have something called TRD.

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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
Fiat sells very well in europe,the Grande punto does,its the leading small hatch in the european market and fiat dosent sell a single car in USA,they have small practical cars for europe but none for Big is Better, America.
Surprisingly, Hyundai manages to sell the Accent in the US, and the Elantra, and the Sonata. Suzuki manages the Baleno, and used to do the Esteem. And some of these are the same size as the Palio, in terms of engine, weight, and interior space.

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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
The main reason that hurts Fiat is the notion thats its cars are fuel guzlers,which they are not.the palio weighs 1 ton and people compare it to a 760kg zen or WagonR and sure it will return poor fuel effeciency.
No, I'm comparing it to my 1.6 Baleno which is pretty close to 100 bhp and weighs close to a tonne. So does the Vtec, and so does the OHC 1.5. I've had the pleasure of being intimately acquainted with all three, and let me tell you, there's something seriously wrong with an example of any one that wouldn't give me 12 kmpl.

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Originally Posted by roms View Post
Roll over to post no.11 bud where you mentioned why the palio/ sienna are not brilliant enough in the indian context.
Nope, sonny. I said they're not BRILLIANT cars in the Indian context. I never said they're not MEANT for India. This is a free country. You can sell what you want, if it clears the Automotive Ridicule Association of India or whatever they call themselves. Heaven knows, enough crap has been dished to the Indian consumer. And before you start off, I wouldn't include Fiat in that category.
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Old 13th February 2007, 09:10   #20
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Well even my 1.5 VTEC when driven with a light throttle cannot do more than 16-odd kmpl so I would seriously doubt a Palio 1.6 giving out 18kmpl unless you were driving on a track under ideal driving conditions conducive to producing very high FE numbers.

The product from Fiat is undoubtedly good but the company & its policies are absolutely horrible. Not to mention anything about the dealers, service centres & spares parts availability.
I dispute the highway mileage of Palio 1.6. My self got an average of more than 17. Please go through the link (post # 6).

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...e-charges.html

Even maintaining at 110-120 KMPH speed, I got 15.5 kmpl. Is it that bad considering it is an 1.6 lts engine..

There are other owners of palio, who claimed giving the mileages upwards of 15 kmpl in palio users group.

Trafic under city always varies and one should not compare the mileage got under different conditions. I don't compare my Palio 1.6s mileage in city with others, as it depends upon lot of factors as all team-bhpians know.

As for service is concerned, I'm a happy man. My palio didn't give any troubles and exception being the speedometer going bust.

I was mistaken the AC water to oil leak in that post.
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Old 13th February 2007, 11:59   #21
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One of the reasons FIAT doesn't want to go to U.S is because of reliability issues. Now that Honda Fit, Nissan Versa are creating a market for small cars, FIAT can tap into this segment.
Hyundai had similar problems in the U.S. Look at what they have achieved. They have more respect in the U.S than in India I guess. But why U.S. I think it is a market that caters to wide range of cars and tastes. You cannot assume that a segment does not exists unless you are not confident.
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Old 13th February 2007, 12:32   #22
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
A broken axle could also be the result of going really fast into a bad ditch or something similar. I couldn't say the same for the hose.

FYI, this happened around atleast 3 Esteems, a couple of Vtecs, two Balenos etc. This was the only car to have an issue of any kind. And I've seen Palios hit the limiter once and go into limp-home mode. What sort of driver's car is that?!
I jumped over many speed bumps at over 100 KMPH in my Petra, no problems. Reasoning similar to the one applied for esteems and other vehicles could be applied to this particular palio. One observation does not tell you a whole lot about the product.

Drive a 1.6 Palio, 1.6 Petra or adventure to appreciate what kind of driver's cars they are. We can be more objective in the discussion. Spares and service definitely is not up to the mark. But the build quality and performance are superior to many other cars in the segment. I do not see any reliability issues too.

I also saw a few NHCs and accents folding like news paper upon impact, our limited observations can not be generalized.
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Old 13th February 2007, 12:37   #23
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Yummy. Yet another Fiat bashing thread I would love to contribute but it will just end up in even more heated discussion.
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Old 13th February 2007, 12:57   #24
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I also saw a few NHCs and accents folding like news paper upon impact, our limited observations can not be generalized.
Regarding the Accents, yeah maybe they're bad in crashes. But NHCs!! eventhough they get damaged very badly, their crush zones work well and the passengers remain safe in bad crashes most of the time.

Yes, the Palio, Petra lot of cars are good to have a crash in.
I beg to differ in driving excitement part.
And every time you plonk the accelerator, the fuel tank seems to be shrinking!!!
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Old 13th February 2007, 12:57   #25
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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
One of the reasons FIAT doesn't want to go to U.S is because of reliability issues. Now that Honda Fit, Nissan Versa are creating a market for small cars, FIAT can tap into this segment.
I read in www.italiasapeed.com that Fiat is planning on a roadmap to return to USA. They already have Ferrari and Maserrati dealerships in US. They plan to bring in Alfa thro' the Maserrati dealerships and they are targetting a 2009 timeframe for that. I have no idea about the plans of Fiat itself.

Last edited by deepakhon : 13th February 2007 at 12:58.
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Old 13th February 2007, 17:54   #26
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Regarding the Accents, yeah maybe they're bad in crashes. But NHCs!! eventhough they get damaged very badly, their crush zones work well and the passengers remain safe in bad crashes most of the time.

Yes, the Palio, Petra lot of cars are good to have a crash in.
I beg to differ in driving excitement part.
And every time you plonk the accelerator, the fuel tank seems to be shrinking!!!
Yup buddy, you talk about FE. We can discuss it separately. My point was w.r.t reliability. BTW if you want performance and spirited driving, you should be ready to watch your fuel tank shrinking or fuel evaporating.. A little sacrifice in FE gives me better build, I'll go for it.
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Old 13th February 2007, 19:23   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Toyota has been a former WRC winning rally team with Carlos Sainz & the Celica during the 90's. How many times has Fiat won the title?
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
No, they only have an F1 team. And oh yeah, that Celica GT4 that used to wipe the rally floor clean with the other cars. Who was it, Sainz? And for the regular consumer, they have something called TRD.
see i replied to this
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
Hell, even at the VCCI rally, the Ferrari refused to start.

The Vtec weighed 960 or 980 kgs the 1.6 weighs 1080 kgs,so ofcourse 100kg is going to affect the comsumption by 2 kmpl.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 13th February 2007 at 19:31.
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Old 13th February 2007, 19:33   #28
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Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
I beg to differ in driving excitement part.
And every time you plonk the accelerator, the fuel tank seems to be shrinking!!!
going by that logic a Alto should be more fun to drive than a Ferrari.
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Old 13th February 2007, 23:42   #29
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Okie dokie, lets get back to the topic after that rather useless talk that can go on and on like a broken record.
Amit, that GP does look very audi-ish, the Audi rs4 to be specific.But what the hell, it only makes the punto look sexier than it already is.

Sadly, I have an eye opener for everyone here.Sort of a preview of what we could expect from the GP. If the owner reports in UK are anything to go by, we should be very scared,atleast the fiat fans should be.

There is this thread where the fiat guys are advising someone to rather consider the suzuki swift or hyundai getz -

Should I Buy A Punto? Honestly Please!!!!! - The FIAT Forum

Wow, now that thread could very well feature on our forum probably a year down the line.I am quite in a state of shock really.

Then there were these -
sorry but more probs/issues.. - The FIAT Forum
Known faults/problems. - The FIAT Forum

Frankly, there are a lot lot more threads, just visit that forum and you will know.


This is probably the ONLY good thread about the grande punto on that forum.And you can pretty much decipher the reason for starting off that thread-people were sick of listening to complaints floating all around --
Sick of complaints? Praise your GP here!!! - The FIAT Forum

Oh boy, so much for the most awaited fiat eh.
The consolation at this point of time is that the car looks like a million dollars --






But we will give them the benefit of the doubt,we'll wait for Indian version and hope and pray hard that they are better.

Last edited by roms : 13th February 2007 at 23:44.
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Old 7th March 2007, 14:58   #30
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Source: 77th International Motor Show, Palexpo-Geneva, 8th to 18th March 2007 - News - Fiat Abarth Returns at Geneva


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