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Old 17th April 2007, 03:11   #16
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Boss all said & done this is nothing but speculation. Until Chevy does come out with the Blue Devil or a version with the pre-requsities there is no surety of what time the Corvette will do with the Competition spec tyres.

Whereas, the Porsche's have been doing this for years. They are independently authenticated figures on stock cars and like it or not they are the leaders in Engineering in today's car makers. Look at the advancements they make every time they launch a new generation of cars & the motorsport laurels they have won over the years for proof. IIRC they are the manufacturer to have won the Le Mans maximum number of times.

Look at some of their recent techincal achievements:

1. Silica/Carbide clutch in the CGT with astonishingly low-weight & benefits.
2. Carbon/Ceramic brakes on Production cars.
3. VGT Turbos on Petrol Engines.

Some of these might have faced intial issues but note that they are the company to introduce all these features for the first time on their production cars.

To be fair for the money that the Corvette is sold for it's unbeatable VFM but for a lot of people VFM is not the only thing. Some might actually prepare the refinement, advanced development & technologies of the Porsche's over the Corvette. I know I do even if I can't afford either right now.
I did read your post and i do know that porsche is a great engineering house but sometimes you dont need over the top engineering to be on the top and thats what corvette team has shown. Some tech that goes into ferrari 599 was developed in a corvette..

also the point that i mentioned about tires was for the Z06 and is no speculation, i laid down the proof for you. As for the SS, if we are to believe the man who is responsible for the machines you will clearly see without a shadow of doubt that the SS will anhilate the CGT on a track, like i said I have been involved with people who can afford all these mad machines from GT3 RS to 997 Turbo to Z06 to F430 and CGT and SLRs and they all say there is hardly any diff if any between the Z06 and the higher priced cars. the only diff i already pointed out, the fit and finish which you can change for a mere 20-30k(maybach quality, hand stiched and everything) and road feel, which could be had with change in suspension for something like 4-5k which still leaves you with a ton of money in your pocket. But i know its not always about how fast you are when you are buying the high $$ cars, so i never say that i compare them that way but in pure performance, sorry it is extreemly tough beating a corvette..

BTW it actually shows poor on porsche that after such high $$ and high quality mods (1,2,3) they still are only an inch away from a vette..so your pointing out the advantages really didnt do any good for porsche, if it would have made it miles ahead of the corvette, it would have made a ton of sense..even these high $$ mods go in their super expensive CGT, so it is awesome that they gave us these technologies but the vette team showed us that you could still be about there without one of those high tech machinery..

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Old 17th April 2007, 03:44   #17
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To be fair for the money that the Corvette is sold for it's unbeatable VFM but for a lot of people VFM is not the only thing. Some might actually prepare the refinement, advanced development & technologies of the Porsche's over the Corvette. I know I do even if I can't afford either right now.
Also on this, i am not surprised that you prefer a porsche over a corvette, i mean come on, how would one be called a sports car nut without doing what you are..

but when you make an educated decision, you will see that is really not true, corvette is no longer a cheaper solution, but its the solution with the other premium brands, because they are equally and most likely more capable with minor drawbacks which could be overlooked..

but then again, havent we all grown up to love and admire porsches and ferraris and lambos just cuz what they are and their unattainable image..
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Old 17th April 2007, 03:55   #18
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BTW it actually shows poor on porsche that after such high $$ and high quality mods (1,2,3) they still are only an inch away from a vette..so your pointing out the advantages really didnt do any good for porsche, if it would have made it miles ahead of the corvette, it would have made a ton of sense..even these high $$ mods go in their super expensive CGT, so it is awesome that they gave us these technologies but the vette team showed us that you could still be about there without one of those high tech machinery..
Well it goes better in my book if you consider that to produce 400-odd bhp Porsche needs a 3.6 litre engine whereas the Corvette needs a 6.0 litre engine.

As for the CGT, their 5.7 litre engine produces 612 bhp whereas the Z06's 7 litre engine puts out 500bhp. I know the price difference but for me, in the se small details is where the difference is.

But I guess it's each to his own.
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Old 17th April 2007, 05:13   #19
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Oh no, not the displacement to power wars again. Take into account the turbos, the Z06 is naturally aspirated whereas the Porsches are forcefully inducted.
Also the 7.0L V8 enables the Z06 to get the torque at a broader RPM range making it more of an everyday driveable car in traffic as well as on the track.
Think about it, 0-160 mph in 4th gear (Jeremy Clarkson in TG). They've tried to make it look like a roadcar with racing capabilities. I'm almost certain that the Porches are incapable of such feats because of the power and torque delivery on their engines. They are designed more for track use than road use.
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Old 17th April 2007, 05:39   #20
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I have been involved with people who can afford all these mad machines from GT3 RS to 997 Turbo to Z06 to F430 and CGT and SLRs and they all say there is hardly any diff if any between the Z06 and the higher priced cars.
I dont want to argue about Corvette vs. anything else, but I beg to differ on this. Just being rich enough to buy all the cars you said these people bought doesnt qualify them enough to judge them.
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Old 17th April 2007, 06:03   #21
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Take into account the turbos, the Z06 is naturally aspirated whereas the Porsches are forcefully inducted.
Also the 7.0L V8 enables the Z06 to get the torque at a broader RPM range making it more of an everyday driveable car in traffic as well as on the track.
Think about it, 0-160 mph in 4th gear (Jeremy Clarkson in TG). They've tried to make it look like a roadcar with racing capabilities. I'm almost certain that the Porches are incapable of such feats because of the power and torque delivery on their engines. They are designed more for track use than road use.
The Carrera GT is normally aspirated, my friend. And Jeremy Clarkson is well known for stunts like the one you mentioned. Has anyone done a similar test (however lame it may be) for any Porsche? I think not.
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Old 17th April 2007, 07:22   #22
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I dont want to argue about Corvette vs. anything else, but I beg to differ on this. Just being rich enough to buy all the cars you said these people bought doesnt qualify them enough to judge them.
Well the people i am taking about are not possers, but true enthusiasts with years of track experience, F and L cars hardly see the track, the showy owners hardly know how to drive them, so thats not the point, when i say i know the right people, i mean the right people, infact one of them just bought himself a brand spanking new vette just to tear it down to pieces by katech(who support racing programs) to build a track only car to go along his collection, the car is striped and made like a GT3 racer with a Z06 engine rebuild with all the race safety built right into the car, so i am talking about people who have 1000 + laps on the ring, not some lawyer or doctor who bought the car because he didnt know what better to do with his money.

Also sports are deemed to be compared for performance and thats what I am doing, not an over all "one is better than the other", but one is faster than the other in straight line or on a track and with supporting proof..

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Old 17th April 2007, 07:24   #23
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The Carrera GT is normally aspirated, my friend. And Jeremy Clarkson is well known for stunts like the one you mentioned. Has anyone done a similar test (however lame it may be) for any Porsche? I think not.
I agree that was a lame test, but the point is that the whole displacement argument is too old and ricy, and fail to understand how people dont get that!!

even the F599 GTB is a 5.9L engine, the point of making a big engine vs small is entirely based on company's philosophy.

The F599's engine alone costs as much as the Z06 whereas that 7.0L 505hp engine is about 12k, so there is a diff and i can tell u that F599 engine is not half as reliable as the z06...

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Old 17th April 2007, 07:49   #24
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1000 laps on the ring. Wow. Even Sabine Schmidt pales in comparison. So do these people race against other people who own similar cars or is it just by themselves? SCCA? Autocross?
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Old 17th April 2007, 07:54   #25
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but the point is that the whole displacement argument is too old and ricy, and fail to understand how people dont get that!!
Ricey? Honestly your bias is beginning to show through.


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i can tell u that F599 engine is not half as reliable as the z06...

Tut, tut. Informed people do not make such cocky statements. Do you have reliability data to prove this "fact"? Race finishes? Anything at all to back this up?
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Old 17th April 2007, 08:05   #26
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1000 laps on the ring. Wow. Even Sabine Schmidt pales in comparison. So do these people race against other people who own similar cars or is it just by themselves? SCCA? Autocross?
You have to be kidding me, she must be doing that many in a year or something

but the guy who had 1000+ ring laps was a US army guy posted in germany and had a C5Z06 and a GT3 which he use to track with.

The other guys usually do track days in their local tracks like Autobahn in joliet, some of the guys are from las vegas, so they go to their local tracks their and most of them have had multiple sessions in spring mountain driving course along with PIR and more tracks, all they do is track as many weekend as they can, I have asked one of the guys to take me along this summer, its an expensive habit with new brake pads and tires every so often, so i have kept away from that..but would likely be joining them starting this summer, or atleast i hope so..that is if my wife decides my shoes are more important than hers

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Old 17th April 2007, 08:41   #27
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Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Ricey? Honestly your bias is beginning to show through.

Tut, tut. Informed people do not make such cocky statements. Do you have reliability data to prove this "fact"? Race finishes? Anything at all to back this up?
Sure my bias is a reflection of the bias and statements made by before mentioned community participants..

anyhow i think that the whole displacement game is a little overrated with people who read about the stuff rather than see it for real, its like mac vs pc, 2 different philosophies for 2 different manufacturers..

Also as for the comment about F599's engine, well i was only going by bad rep's ferraris have with their up keeps, its nothing new..i am sure ferrari has made great strides but if you really think that the italians are making reliable machines then you need to do a little more research on the net by actual owners, you will be suprised, they have quite a lot of issues..so based on the percentage i made my statement..

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Old 17th April 2007, 09:35   #28
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The Carrera GT is normally aspirated, my friend. And Jeremy Clarkson is well known for stunts like the one you mentioned. Has anyone done a similar test (however lame it may be) for any Porsche? I think not.
My bad. I meant the 911 Turbo. But look at the power and torque figures for the Carrera GT. 600 HP but only 440 ft lbs of torque. Whereas the Z06 has 500 HP and 470 ft lbs of torque. What does that tell you?
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Old 17th April 2007, 10:19   #29
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Well it goes better in my book if you consider that to produce 400-odd bhp Porsche needs a 3.6 litre engine whereas the Corvette needs a 6.0 litre engine.
those engines have a long way to go really long way to take for example most of the 6,7,8 sec cars are mostly american because of their displacement.
but they cant give away 1000 bhp cars since it would be difficult to drive them to the office and back hence removing the daily use sports car tag.
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Old 17th April 2007, 18:32   #30
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What does that tell you?

It tells me that a 7 liter engine makes only 30 lb-ft more than a 5.7 liter engine.

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those engines have a long way to go really long way to take for example most of the 6,7,8 sec cars are mostly american because of their displacement.
but they cant give away 1000 bhp cars since it would be difficult to drive them to the office and back hence removing the daily use sports car tag.

There are Honda Civics that do 8 seconds. Your claim that american cars do 6,7 or 8 seconds from displacement alone therefore proves NOTHING.

I agree the Corvette has innovated new manufacturing methods and new materials for mass-production like balsa wood etc, but as a technological powerhouse, it fails. As a show of engine technology, it fails. I doubt anything can change that. Maybe it is a better everyday sportscar, but dont anyone EVER try to tell me that you use even 10% of its capabilities on the street. I wont take that bull-crap. Sportscars' capabilities are measured on the track. Not on the street. And on the track, the present-day Carrera GT is faster than ANY present day Corvette. What happens in the future is different.
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