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Old 19th May 2007, 20:19   #31
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Mercedes-Benz bosses want to raise quality , in the latest cars you will get less trouble than before.For example the S class has got less electronics than before.Electronics is the main problem sometimes it is hard to understand what is it
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Old 19th May 2007, 20:53   #32
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Jesus, son, don't you get it? We don't care about innovations if they fail all the time! Lexus provides the same comforts that MB does, and their bloody cars don't go down the drain when it rains or when you cross 4000 miles. But since you are a Euro fan, I don't think it is wise to discuss this here. There is a separate thread somewhere, na? Maybe the mods can transplant this stuff there?
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Old 19th May 2007, 21:50   #33
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May I propose Toyota's success with Hybrid cars in US market as an innovation? When everybody else was scoffing at their idea. Now all all trying ot copy them. In fact, this is considered one of the biggest trend setter in the car market after so many years of making guzzlers.

Innovation is not just about inventing something in the labs and taking a patent for it. Its about putting it in practice and make the society benefit from it as well. Now if it also results in a profit to the seller, thats even better. Thats why now we are having/going to have Ford hybrids, GM hybrids etc.

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....For example the S class has got less electronics than before.Electronics is the main problem sometimes it is hard to understand what is it
Its definitely hard when you are not manufacturing it and hence cant control the quality or reliability. The more you use outsourced components which you dont understand, the more you stand to lose. And when it comes to quality of electronics manufacturing, I dont think there is any real competition for the Japanese.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 19th May 2007 at 22:12.
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Old 19th May 2007, 22:25   #34
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2. Aeroplanes have many many more moving parts than cars. They operate in ultra-high stress, zero-tolerance environments. You cannot coast to the side when your engine breaks down. How come they don't fail and crash every week?
Not trying to be a smart *** but the number of planes crashing are very high compared to the total number of planes produced (Fighter jets).
Second, for every 1 hr of flight time the planes (Jets and transport) the plane undergoes atleast 2 hrs of service.
Third, Zero-tolerance alright but every plane has multiple redundancies built in for flight critical parts.

But your point stays, if we are paying through our nose for a technologically advanced automobile we expect them to be reliable too.
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Old 19th May 2007, 23:46   #35
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70 = Suzuki Alto

By the way the Indian Laura is the Skoda Octavia there and Indian Skoda Octavia is discountinued.
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Old 20th May 2007, 00:11   #36
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Jesus, son, don't you get it? We don't care about innovations if they fail all the time! Lexus provides the same comforts that MB does, and their bloody cars don't go down the drain when it rains or when you cross 4000 miles. But since you are a Euro fan, I don't think it is wise to discuss this here. There is a separate thread somewhere, na? Maybe the mods can transplant this stuff there?
obvisouly u dont,because people never give credit to the ones who take the risk,someone has to go first,
If inovation was not there people would still be living in a cave eating grass.the people who inovate suffer the most problems from the inovations,because no one know what the problems will be.

but basically Vasudeva came up with non-sense argument that Mercedes were copying Toyota and i asked him to prove it and he has no justification.

eg:
The De Havilland Comet was the first commercial jet airliner,there was a structural flaw in its design and it crashed sending the fleet into beign grounded,Boeing improved the design removed the flaw and presented its own jet liner that became a success and Boeing started minting money but De Havilland lost out eventhough the Comet II which it developed later was a better jet than any Boeing.

Any company that puts inovations first will have worse reliablity and the ones who see the problem and then improve them are called reliable.

someone came up with Hybrid,the first hybrid was developed by Ferdinand Porsche
Hybrid electric vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia so it is not a new idea but with todays technology it has become a viable option.
Also i love Mercedes cars and i dont think it is wrong to defend them,if problems are blown out of proportion,if i am an Euro car fan then u are a Japnese car fan,doesnt change anything.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 20th May 2007 at 00:18.
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Old 20th May 2007, 12:45   #37
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This week's Fifth Gear had Vicki testing the legendary Mercedes quality by trying to trash a old Mercedes E stationwagon. It was a very interesting segment on the show. I think it was a 1980's model with some 90K miles or something on it. She drove it into 3 feet deep water, the engine and insides were flooded and after the car was taken out, the engine started! Though the engine had stalled for some time, electrics worked perfectly well. Then they hit the car sideways with a monster truck to test structural rigidity and the car held up really well and they actually managed to drive it. Maybe the video can be found on youtube.
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Old 20th May 2007, 17:34   #38
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obvisouly u dont,because people never give credit to the ones who take the risk,someone has to go first,
Boss, I dont buy this logic. I have done things that no one in India MIGHT have done on a baleno. Run close to 12:1 CR. But the car blew twice. And it is annoyingly frustrating to see the car this way. I can only imagine those guys who spends crores and end up with such reliability issues(related to electronics in this case). Also dont these companies do extensive testing to see that all parts are reliable? Failure of some part on a few cars is ok. Not calling back an entire lot to replace stuff. I would be wild. If you owned one I am sure you would be too. And I am talking from personal experience here not some seat of pants experience.
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Old 20th May 2007, 17:49   #39
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This week's Fifth Gear had Vicki testing the legendary Mercedes quality by trying to trash a old Mercedes E stationwagon. It was a very interesting segment on the show. I think it was a 1980's model with some 90K miles or something on it. She drove it into 3 feet deep water, the engine and insides were flooded and after the car was taken out, the engine started! Though the engine had stalled for some time, electrics worked perfectly well. Then they hit the car sideways with a monster truck to test structural rigidity and the car held up really well and they actually managed to drive it. Maybe the video can be found on youtube.
Thats a real old episolde. Anywayz here is the link to it.



Enjoy
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Old 20th May 2007, 22:05   #40
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Boss, I dont buy this logic. I have done things that no one in India MIGHT have done on a baleno. Run close to 12:1 CR. But the car blew twice. And it is annoyingly frustrating to see the car this way. I can only imagine those guys who spends crores and end up with such reliability issues(related to electronics in this case). Also dont these companies do extensive testing to see that all parts are reliable? Failure of some part on a few cars is ok. Not calling back an entire lot to replace stuff. I would be wild. If you owned one I am sure you would be too. And I am talking from personal experience here not some seat of pants experience.
so what is your point?
also i dont thing u have inovated anything here,u have just modified something so idont understand how it matters. everyone does testing but remember testing is not foolproof otherwise all things on Earth would never fail.

Let me also tell you that Toyota has had more recalls than Mercedes.Just search.And recalls don't affect their standing in reliability or CSI.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 20th May 2007 at 22:08.
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Old 20th May 2007, 22:59   #41
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Since you keep on emphasizing innovation, let me tell you that Mercedez didn't invent the car or lucury coaches. They only invented the IC engine. So by your logic the pre-IC luxury steam engine cars are more innovative than Mercedez (they started the concept of mechanical coach) hence better even if the steam engine blew up in every other car?
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Old 20th May 2007, 23:14   #42
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Just checked at Home - What Car? Helping you buy better the resale value of many cars. Toyota dooesnt have much better resale value as projected. But fiat has got poor resale value. Honda is better placed, it depends on models though.
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Old 20th May 2007, 23:29   #43
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the car was invented in 1885 so over 100 years what are the inovations of toyota.
The innova ??? LOL

One thing i know for certain is that Japanese products are made for life, they will fail when they reach their last. That is from personal experience. I dont know much about the germans, except for the Grundig Tv that we had.
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Old 20th May 2007, 23:37   #44
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so what is your point?
also i dont thing u have inovated anything here,u have just modified something so i dont understand how it matters. everyone does testing but remember testing is not foolproof otherwise all things on Earth would never fail.

Let me also tell you that Toyota has had more recalls than Mercedes.Just search.And recalls don't affect their standing in reliability or CSI.
Doing something first could mean a complete new innovation or a mod (which in itself is some new innovation from the ordinary norm) . Its good to take risks, but you cant have parts blow up repeatedly over a period of time to satisfy your whims of being the first provider of never seen before gadgetry. And if MB or any other company cant solve these niggles over a period of time maybe its time the buck stops. Or maybe they can take a cue from porsche who seem to be doing pretty well relatively with lesser troubles while trying to compete equally on tech basis.

I dont know where you get the idea from. From what I know, if a company recalls your car for an ECU replacement(like incase of swift diesel) your reputation wrt reliability is affected. If my car would have got a recall from the company every 3 months I would be really frustrated. Anyone who spent their money would. Moresoever if these gadgets fail at the most critical of times.
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Old 21st May 2007, 00:01   #45
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I dont know where you get the idea from. From what I know, if a company recalls your car for an ECU replacement(like incase of swift diesel) your reputation wrt reliability is affected. If my car would have got a recall from the company every 3 months I would be really frustrated. Anyone who spent their money would. Moresoever if these gadgets fail at the most critical of times.
see Toyota and Lexus both have had more recalls than Mercedes yet their standings in CSI or Reliability index are unaffected.That is what i meant and that is not an idea.

also Mercedes had the most numbers of issues in last gen M class and the previous c-class before the facelift,which are not true today but still they are shown as poor in reliability by CR.So it is not that they havent improved,to prove this i put up the JD power study but people say UK study is not relevant in US wrt to reliability even when most US cars are imported from german plants.That is all.

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