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Old 20th June 2008, 16:14   #16
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How come no one is talking about the new NSX spy pics going on everywhere on the Net ?
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Old 20th June 2008, 21:02   #17
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How about posting those pictures for us, Srishiva? Honda better up the game...they now have an unexpected contender in the fabulous GTR!
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Old 20th June 2008, 21:05   #18
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Originally Posted by GTO - Touring View Post
How about posting those pictures for us, Srishiva? Honda better up the game...they now have an unexpected contender in the fabulous GTR!
the CEO's order are to beat the 7:29 time of the nissan and the original pull on the ring was 7:37 with traffic and 2 more years before launch, this car will be mad fast, surely expect it to be in the 7:25 range with 120k price tag..
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Old 20th June 2008, 21:22   #19
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I woudn't put my money on the new NSX, Honda has been focussing too much on its family sedans for a long time...
PS: The GTR V spec's timings on the ring are still pending...though it seems to have 7:25 covered:- Nissan GT-R V-Spec lap times stun observers - Autoblog , and i dont see either the NSX or the ZR1 going any lower than 7:30...
Ofcourse, the more competitive it gets, the better for us... the NSX's pricing policy will definately keep the GTR's retail in mind
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Old 21st June 2008, 00:24   #20
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Originally Posted by Amien View Post
I woudn't put my money on the new NSX, Honda has been focussing too much on its family sedans for a long time...
PS: The GTR V spec's timings on the ring are still pending...though it seems to have 7:25 covered:- Nissan GT-R V-Spec lap times stun observers - Autoblog , and i dont see either the NSX or the ZR1 going any lower than 7:30...
Ofcourse, the more competitive it gets, the better for us... the NSX's pricing policy will definately keep the GTR's retail in mind
War Japan!
I dont know about not having faith in Honda. I am not a big fan of NSX, but i believe they will achieve it considering their higher hp and lighter weight plus their SH-AWD is about 150lb lighter than nissan and more efficient. If their first pull almost 2 yr before production has yielded 7:37 in traffic, you can be assured, with specific tires and some good areo and brakes they will get down to mid toi high 20s in that car and then they will come out with an R-type to battle V Spec. Its a good time for jap sports car market. I am sure LF-A is going to be the best of the bunch but with soo much money it is going in a different direction..
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Old 21st June 2008, 00:29   #21
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Car looks good, but IMO it has european features and shares no resemblance to the Previous gen NSX.

I would certainly put my money on a GTR.
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Old 21st June 2008, 20:10   #22
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I dont know about not having faith in Honda. I am not a big fan of NSX, but i believe they will achieve it considering their higher hp and lighter weight plus their SH-AWD is about 150lb lighter than nissan and more efficient. If their first pull almost 2 yr before production has yielded 7:37 in traffic, you can be assured, with specific tires and some good areo and brakes they will get down to mid toi high 20s in that car and then they will come out with an R-type to battle V Spec. Its a good time for jap sports car market. I am sure LF-A is going to be the best of the bunch but with soo much money it is going in a different direction..
Regarding weight/horsepower as the criteria would be a bad move, i mean, look at the corvettes (granted RWD and everything)... Weight apparently seems a non issue for the GTR, Its aerodynimics is what interest me the most... a super low drag coefficient thanks to years of wind tunnel testing. Thing is, According to me, Nissan has always been the better company, Just that their sucesses have been consistent only recently. For the first time they worked without many funding restrictions and the GTR is the result.
Any way, the purpose of the GTR is to destroy everything that falls in the same price range, it does that and more... records are just the icing, and that is the reason i see the NSX with a 100k USD plus tag, though like i said before, Honda will have to really be through with their pricing policy thanks to the good guys at Nissan.

Wow, it really is an awesome time in the Japanese industry, filled with awesome comebacks, cut throat rivalry and intense competition. Due to the GTR's presence, the NSX, the ZR1 and many more to come will be a lot better(and cheaper) than would have been possible otherwise

PS: My only wish is that the final NSX looks nothing like the ones i saw in the spy pics., unbelievable unimpressive design IMO
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Old 24th June 2008, 10:03   #23
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Originally Posted by Amien View Post
Regarding weight/horsepower as the criteria would be a bad move, i mean, look at the corvettes (granted RWD and everything)... Weight apparently seems a non issue for the GTR, Its aerodynimics is what interest me the most... a super low drag coefficient thanks to years of wind tunnel testing. Thing is, According to me, Nissan has always been the better company, Just that their sucesses have been consistent only recently. For the first time they worked without many funding restrictions and the GTR is the result.
Any way, the purpose of the GTR is to destroy everything that falls in the same price range, it does that and more... records are just the icing, and that is the reason i see the NSX with a 100k USD plus tag, though like i said before, Honda will have to really be through with their pricing policy thanks to the good guys at Nissan.

Wow, it really is an awesome time in the Japanese industry, filled with awesome comebacks, cut throat rivalry and intense competition. Due to the GTR's presence, the NSX, the ZR1 and many more to come will be a lot better(and cheaper) than would have been possible otherwise

PS: My only wish is that the final NSX looks nothing like the ones i saw in the spy pics., unbelievable unimpressive design IMO

Amien, I have gone through the whole GT-R vs Corvette plenty of times and I can pretty much give you an unbiased opinion.

Nissan did a fantastic job at creating a pig that can fly, literaly, its fat and it flies through cornors like nobodies business, but people forget that its not because of the aero or awd(may be bcz of the sophisticated awd), its because of the perfect computer sitting between that great powerplant and that awesome all wheel drivetrain. 90% of what GT-R can do is not you or the car, but the computer calculating and putting the power into the right wheels at perfect time.

If you think low drag co-efficiency means anything, then you need to check on your physics, like i had to, its co-effeciency of drag times the frontal area that tell you the aero story and in the case of GT-R that would be a large number.

Nissan especially designed awesome tires to go with this beast, they threw in 7 yrs of development into the program and had the car run the nurburgring a godzillian times tweaking every little thing, thats how they ended up with a car that is so easy to drive on a track that a fool could do it.

Now take for instance the time on the ring 7:38 to 7:29, this drastic drop was due to multitude of reasons, Ring was re-surfaced(which probably accounts for 3-5 secs), they used better all summer tires(non-runflats, accounting for atleast 3 sec), dry patch(1-1.5sec) and tweaked suspension(1-1.5 sec).

Now that i have said this, and since you mentioned the corvette(one of my all time favs), i will tell you this little fact.

GM didnt spend 7 yrs tuning the car on the ring, they didnt make godzillian runs on the ring, they didnt find a perfect day to run the car, they ran them on the worst available tires possible for a sports car of its caliber, they never went back to retry with revised suspension, they gave the car into the hands of a pro who was going to drive the car for the first time on a track he had never known(4 laps), jonny boy(the other C6R driver said, he could do it faster) plus the car doesnt get assisted by much of the computer(as it doesnt have a sophisticated ECU in the heart of the powerplant), given all these factors, the difference that you really point out is meaningless against the vette.

Just look at the plain physics when computers can't do squot, straighline acceleration times and speed, you will be amazed how left behind the poor GT-R will feel in a 0-100 or a 0-150 run, it will be left in the dry. Not that either cars are straightline only cars, but by pure dynamics GT-R is great due to 3 things, AWD, Computer & tires.

Now going back to the NSX, i feel it will stomp on the GT-R and will be a far rewarding car to drive, I know what i will get into as soon as I am bored of my GT-R.

As for the pricing, well it will be due to the limited quantieis of the NSX that it will be expensive, else it would have also been made in the 70-80k range. Also just wait and see, the GT-R's price is an introductory price, it will shoot in price over its lifespan twice as fast as a regular car just like the Z06 did, fully loaded Z06 in 06 was 70k, now its 82.5 in 08
Its good to be a fan of a particular car, but its better to be an informed fan

BTW i agree that the NSX should look different than the prototype they had shown, it should be exotic looking much like the LF-A(wow!!). Lets see how it turns out, i doubt i will be disappointed..

Last edited by 1Day : 24th June 2008 at 10:12.
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Old 24th June 2008, 17:25   #24
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That was a long an interesting read, and like before i do agree with some of what you typed, I feel i made a mistake in how i got my point across. So, Lets Recap:-
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Day View Post
Amien, I have gone through the whole GT-R vs Corvette plenty of times and I can pretty much give you an unbiased opinion.

Nissan did a fantastic job at creating a pig that can fly, literaly, its fat and it flies through cornors like nobodies business, but people forget that its not because of the aero or awd(may be bcz of the sophisticated awd), its because of the perfect computer sitting between that great powerplant and that awesome all wheel drivetrain. 90% of what GT-R can do is not you or the car, but the computer calculating and putting the power into the right wheels at perfect time.
Different reasons make the same performance less impressive? My argument was regarding the car, the electronics and the driver as one, obviously. Trying to measure a car without one of its best features(the electronics in this) is pointless, you might as well be suggesting a car that excells because of its low weight to take a weight penalty.

Quote:
If you think low drag co-efficiency means anything, then you need to check on your physics, like i had to, its co-effeciency of drag times the frontal area that tell you the aero story and in the case of GT-R that would be a large number.
I DO think it means "something" . Even though i know that drag is also proportional to things you have no control over such as air density, you're really going to believe Nissan spent 2 years in a wind tunnel working on something that "doesnt mean anything"? My point is, generating downforce in all 4 corners IS something that will, and does make a difference, If that's what you're asking....

Quote:
Nissan especially designed awesome tires to go with this beast, they threw in 7 yrs of development into the program and had the car run the nurburgring a godzillian times tweaking every little thing,
Yes they had awesome Bridgestone Potenza's (filled with nitrogen ), a computer, an amazing drivetrain etc working for them... more i read this line it sounds like a complaint. A car manufacture works hard on their product, is that bad? The next line answeres my question.
Quote:
thats how they ended up with a car that is so easy to drive on a track that a fool could do it.
Now i know what the real problem is. You want a car that is interactive, fun, (with a stick shift im assuming?) You don't want a car that you think will credit better lap times to your cars computer rather than the skill of its driver.
You want to experience the perfect heal-toe. Basically, you want a car that you can drive rather than a car that drives you. My suggestion, Get a Ford Model T I mean, fuel injectors are pretty "high technology", and they were a big deal once upon a time. At this point you might feel im being sarcastic, dont misunderstand for that is not my intention. Let me ask you a question, Does the GTR find the proper line for you? Does it tell you when to brake and when to get on the gas? Fact is, the better driver will still win in most cases of equal car competition. This car merely takes some of the load off you so that you can focuss on doing other things better. The way it ALWAYS has been.
Quote:
Now take for instance the time on the ring 7:38 to 7:29, this drastic drop was due to multitude of reasons, Ring was re-surfaced(which probably accounts for 3-5 secs), they used better all summer tires(non-runflats, accounting for atleast 3 sec), dry patch(1-1.5sec) and tweaked suspension(1-1.5 sec).
Basically, The tried to provide optimal conditions for a track which is a benchmark for performance all around the world. Asking chevy/competitors to do the same would be better than giving a breakup of where the nissan shaved off some of its seconds.
Now that i have said this, and since you mentioned the corvette(one of my all time favs), i will tell you this little fact.

Quote:
GM didnt spend 7 yrs tuning the car on the ring, they didnt make godzillian runs on the ring, they didnt find a perfect day to run the car, they ran them on the worst available tires possible for a sports car of its caliber, they never went back to retry with revised suspension, they gave the car into the hands of a pro who was going to drive the car for the first time on a track he had never known(4 laps), jonny boy(the other C6R driver said, he could do it faster) plus the car doesnt get assisted by much of the computer(as it doesnt have a sophisticated ECU in the heart of the powerplant),
Damn, just imagine if the chevy had perfect conditions, it'd put the Zonda to shame. Seriously, why don't they get all this right and prove their point? Apparently, not willing to give a 100% to a benchmark is a good quality, and having a sophisticated ECU is a bad one?(omg! cheating!! :P )

Quote:
given all these factors, the difference that you really point out is meaningless against the vette.
True. Its as meaningless as someone ranting another for making a better car and not following the same weight reduction+horsepower route.

Quote:
Just look at the plain physics when computers can't do squot, straighline acceleration times and speed, you will be amazed how left behind the poor GT-R will feel in a 0-100 or a 0-150 run, it will be left in the dry. Not that either cars are straightline only cars, but by pure dynamics GT-R is great due to 3 things, AWD, Computer & tires.
This last area, Unfortunately loses all credibility as far as im concerned. So you will compare a GTR in turf it was not intended to excell? Then you contradict your statement in the next line by saying that this is not a measure of true performance... (why mention it then?) why not mention 0-60 times when they mean equally nothing? And then, it's topped off with "the GTR is great due to AWD/computers and tires" Yes, We know that, Your point being?
Quote:
Now going back to the NSX, i feel it will stomp on the GT-R and will be a far rewarding car to drive, I know what i will get into as soon as I am bored of my GT-R.
Sure, it may(may being the key word here. But when i said "i'd put money on the GTR" did that translate into "stomp its ***"? Doubt it. Regardless, IF it does "stomp" the GTR, And i hope it does because that will make 2008 a very important year in automative history, It will most likely be on the same facts that allows the GTR to excell. Thats what these cars allow you to do, Push them to their limits every time, so much so that it gets boring, and if it does, Then i believe you bought the wrong car. You dont strenghten your core to compete in an arm wrestling match, But it can help a bit.

Quote:
As for the pricing, well it will be due to the limited quantieis of the NSX that it will be expensive, else it would have also been made in the 70-80k range. Also just wait and see, the GT-R's price is an introductory price, it will shoot in price over its lifespan twice as fast as a regular car just like the Z06 did, fully loaded Z06 in 06 was 70k, now its 82.5 in 08
So, the ability of Honda to be unable to manufacture a car like the NSX is mass is a good quality? Heh., I know, You're saying the price is for exclusivity, But does that really have anything to do with the final price to performance ratio? I never said the GTR was a better looking car/more fun/better lineage/higher social standing than any other car. What im saying is, The GTR is the most brutally competitive car, with a price to performance ration bar none.
The fact remains, For as much acclaim the GTR gets, Tt deserves much much more. But when someone so much as lists the reasons for this, The following happens:-
Quote:
Its good to be a fan of a particular car, but its better to be an informed fan
When your own post seems to be biased,
Quote:
Now that i have said this, and since you mentioned the corvette(one of my all time favs), I will tell you this little fact.
I would say its rather unwise to accuse someone else of fanboysim, Just because they sound Pro-Nissan and have a GTR as their avatar " "

Quote:
BTW i agree that the NSX should look different than the prototype they had shown, it should be exotic looking much like the LF-A(wow!!). Lets see how it turns out, i doubt i will be disappointed..
Seriously. Every guy whose in anticipation of the NSX is hoping the same thing, I really really hope Honda listens to public opinion .
As long as you know what you're looking for, You will never be disappointed
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Old 25th June 2008, 12:41   #25
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The 2009 Acura has picked up a `Top Safety Pick' Rating from IIHS.
IIHS-HLDI: Acura TSX

On side impact, the rating has improved from average (A) for 2005-08 models to good (G) for 2009 model.
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Old 25th June 2008, 12:47   #26
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This is really confusing. The NSX has always been a mid engined car (and so have all the concepts). Just the fact that the engine on this one seems to be at the front makes me wonder if this is the new NSX or a bigger...more powerful S2000!!!

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Cant agree to you lesser, I did feel the same coz this test car has no resemblence to the great NSX design or concept. As you alrdy said, could be another entrant in the s2000 pedigree...
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Old 25th June 2008, 13:29   #27
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Cant agree to you lesser, I did feel the same coz this test car has no resemblence to the great NSX design or concept. As you alrdy said, could be another entrant in the s2000 pedigree...
This is close to the ASCC concept. Could a s2000 like car do a 7:30 on the ring ? The general understanding is that it will be a front engine car with SHAWD.

It would be interesting to see if A-VTEC will make its debut in this.
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Old 25th June 2008, 21:40   #28
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So, the ability of Honda to be unable to manufacture a car like the NSX is mass is a good quality? Heh., I know, You're saying the price is for exclusivity, But does that really have anything to do with the final price to performance ratio? I never said the GTR was a better looking car/more fun/better lineage/higher social standing than any other car. What im saying is, The GTR is the most brutally competitive car, with a price to performance ration bar none.
I wouldn't agree on that. If you're looking at price to performance, it depends on what kind of performance you're talking about.

When it comes to the Z06, it's a whopping 740 pounds lighter than the Nissan GT-R, has 50.3:49.7 weight distribution (The Nissan has 54.6:45.4), has a lower drag coefficient, looks better and sounds better.
And we haven't even seen the ZR1 on the Ring yet.

If you want to trade all that of for a couple of seconds (maybe more) off a 7 and a half minute lap, I'm sorry that's not the right price to performance for me. The Corvette is a much better engineered car than the GT-R and was also launched like 2 years prior to it.

The GT-R might have tricked out computer settings to control everything, but there only so much you can do with it. Whereas you can get a lot more out of a "true" performance car like the Z06 if it's in the hands of an expert driver(Stig, where are you?).

Oh and about the NSX, I think it's a step in the right direction for Honda, and now they only need someone like Ayrton Senna to fine tune the suspension like they did it with the last NSX.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 25th June 2008 at 21:43.
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Old 25th June 2008, 22:34   #29
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Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
I wouldn't agree on that. If you're looking at price to performance, it depends on what kind of performance you're talking about.

When it comes to the Z06, it's a whopping 740 pounds lighter than the Nissan GT-R, has 50.3:49.7 weight distribution (The Nissan has 54.6:45.4), has a lower drag coefficient, looks better and sounds better.
Im sorry, but those aren't performance figures. As to "what kind" im talking about im talking about the kind that translate to the car doing something better than the others, For eg, accelerating faster, cornering better etc.
If you'd be so kind as to repost with a more relevant point i'd be glad to respond to the post as a whole.
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Old 26th June 2008, 16:24   #30
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Autoexpress has a rendering based on the spy pics
Honda’s next NSX | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express
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