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Old 25th December 2007, 22:03   #211
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looks like you misunderstood me
i was talking about profits with the jaguar not the tata vehicles
what i meant was jaguar which is struggling all over the world
might manage too sell more cars in india compared to the german marks
if the custom duty is reduced for the jaguar & LR imports
and hence TATA (jaguar) will make good profits aleast in india

Last edited by AMATMO : 25th December 2007 at 22:05.
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Old 25th December 2007, 22:31   #212
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Originally Posted by AMATMO View Post
what i meant was jaguar which is struggling all over the world might manage too sell more cars in india compared to the german marks if the custom duty is reduced for the jaguar & LR imports
and hence TATA (jaguar) will make good profits aleast in india
Thats a bit far fetched, to put it mildly. Nobody spends USD 2 Billion to buy a marqee just for the Indian market - we do not have a market large enough to sustain D-Segment production, leave alone these brands.
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Old 26th December 2007, 00:35   #213
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I hope TATA lets Jaguar make super cars and try to regain its racing glory. Victories on track win customers on street, something which Jag didn't do under Ford ownership. They relied on Jaguars past glory to sell rebadged Modeo's.
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Old 26th December 2007, 10:20   #214
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
They relied on Jaguars past glory to sell rebadged Modeo's.
Do you actually believe in what your saying? because its absolutely not true.
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Old 26th December 2007, 10:39   #215
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Do you actually believe in what your saying? because its absolutely not true.
The X-type Jaguars used Mondeo chassis, with Jaguar clothing on them. It is due to that model that the first front-drive jag, the first jag estate, and the first jag diesel were spawned. No wonder purists were put off.
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Old 26th December 2007, 11:01   #216
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Do you actually believe in what your saying? because its absolutely not true.
It is true. Same platform, different bodyshape.

The S-Type was also based on some Lincoln saloon.
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Old 26th December 2007, 11:22   #217
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yes exactly,
s type was based on the lincoln LS with the Ford DEw platform which was also used for the thunderbird
so we can clearly see the s type and the x type where just means of making jaguars affordable to gain the market share
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Old 26th December 2007, 11:25   #218
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Originally Posted by islero View Post
The X-type Jaguars used Mondeo chassis, with Jaguar clothing on them. It is due to that model that the first front-drive jag, the first jag estate, and the first jag diesel were spawned. No wonder purists were put off.
Quote:
It is true. Same platform, different bodyshape.

The S-Type was also based on some Lincoln saloon
thanks,i had no idea about that.
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Old 26th December 2007, 12:26   #219
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
Do you actually believe in what your saying? because its absolutely not true.
Quote:
thanks,i had no idea about that.
I am not trying to be a prick here, but I find it funny that in one post you were very confident that I am wrong and then later you say you had no clue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big man
I know a few people who have worked at LR Solihull and even they admit that workers are overpaid and underworked
Big man (and this goes to all the skeptics), here is the thing: You know a few people who have worked at LR whereas Mr. Ratan Tata and his men know a lot of people at Jag/LR. They know Jag executives, workers, CEO, Ford execs and investment bankers. They also have access to Jag/LR books and a bunch of lawyers to advise them. In addition to all that, Mr. Ratan Tata has a degree from Cornell (?) and the experience of heading one of the largest industrial houses of India, a $ 75 billion empire. Not just that, he has the experience of buying several billion dollar companies, creating India's first indigenously designed car in face of skepticism, and dreaming up a 1 lakh car. He was named on of the 25 powerful business people in the world and he is aided by some of the best brains in the industry and backed by some of the worlds leading banks and lenders.
Now Mr. Tata thinks that his group would benefit from buying Jag/LR. The lenders some how trust him and decided to finance him. The Jag workers also like the Tata ownership. I am sure this is not a whimsical decision by Tata. I think they have a strategy in place for the expansion of Tata motors and a plan to turn around Jag or benefit from it. I also think they have a contingency and exit plans in case something goes wrong.

Given all this, I would be very careful when questioning TATA's wisdom in buying an ailing company like Jaguar, especially when I am not an industry insider who know what's ailing Jag/LR and have to depend on other sources.
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Old 26th December 2007, 13:02   #220
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I am not trying to be a prick here, but I find it funny that in one post you were very confident that I am wrong and then later you say you had no clue.
It's normal Baba!
Happens a lot in internet forums. It's easy to let your fingers loose and type away. Ain't it?
Jokes apart, this is where forums like these become very useful. Many things which are most of the times not known to one is shared here and benefitted by many.
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Old 26th December 2007, 14:35   #221
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Is there anything basically wrong with using the same platform to build varying-cost cars on. It is a model that seems to work extremely well for VAG.

No-one passes up an audi because it's basically a VW; lots of people buy Skoda because it is a lower-cost-option VW.

I've always liked the idea of a really well-built, luxuriously equipped small car...

Jaguar Indica, anybody?
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Old 26th December 2007, 15:32   #222
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
Big man (and this goes to all the skeptics), here is the thing: You know a few people who have worked at LR whereas Mr. Ratan Tata and his men know a lot of people at Jag/LR. They know Jag executives, workers, CEO, Ford execs and investment bankers. They also have access to Jag/LR books and a bunch of lawyers to advise them. In addition to all that, Mr. Ratan Tata has a degree from Cornell (?) and the experience of heading one of the largest industrial houses of India, a $ 75 billion empire. Not just that, he has the experience of buying several billion dollar companies, creating India's first indigenously designed car in face of skepticism, and dreaming up a 1 lakh car. He was named on of the 25 powerful business people in the world and he is aided by some of the best brains in the industry and backed by some of the worlds leading banks and lenders.
Now Mr. Tata thinks that his group would benefit from buying Jag/LR. The lenders some how trust him and decided to finance him. The Jag workers also like the Tata ownership. I am sure this is not a whimsical decision by Tata. I think they have a strategy in place for the expansion of Tata motors and a plan to turn around Jag or benefit from it. I also think they have a contingency and exit plans in case something goes wrong.

Given all this, I would be very careful when questioning TATA's wisdom in buying an ailing company like Jaguar, especially when I am not an industry insider who know what's ailing Jag/LR and have to depend on other sources.
As they say you need to keep your ears to the floor to pick up on what really goes on at companies. Corporate press conferences and annual reports never tell the full story. If you ever want to learn about possible mergers and aquisitions the best place to pick up news is bars packed by investment bankers. The same holds true of places like LR, you have to learn what is going on the shopfloor. Mr Tata may be drinking cups of Tetley tea with senior executives at LR but that is far from knowing shopfloor reality.
Thats exactly why BMW were happy to ditch LR. They too thought they could turn things around but in the end they say what went on the factory floor. If you think the unions in India are bad wait till TATA have to face the unions at LR.

You think Ratan Tata is the daddy of everything but his reign at TATA is not all covered in glory. Look at his handling of the TCS float, the guy failed to take advantage of a booming tech market to raise as much money as possible. There are numerous other examples where he has failed.
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Old 26th December 2007, 15:35   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
I am not trying to be a prick here, but I find it funny that in one post you were very confident that I am wrong and then later you say you had no clue.
Seriously i always thought Jaguar cars had independent DNA ,i never read about it so i din't know.
but Jaguars are still much different from rebadged Mondeo's,you can call them re-engineered.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 26th December 2007 at 15:40.
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Old 1st January 2008, 21:59   #224
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Default Tata/M&M Acquiring Jaguar - Wise?

Hi junta,

One of these days, I'm sure either Tata or M&M would be taking over management control of Jaguar from Ford.

I can't, for the life of me fathom the rationale of the acquisition - at a time when manufacturers are facing rough weather in the developed world and are closely looking at BRIC economies for growth, and with UK being perhaps the world's most saturated markets, what's the point owing Jaguar?

Some huge negatives, IMHO,

1. Ford bought Jaguar in 1990 for $2.5 billion. This sum was considered too large then given the marque's precarious history and labour-union controlled factories. The turnaround never happened - Jaguar has been a failure. The operation was selling 50,000 vehicles per year when Ford bought it, and the goal was to get it up to 250,000 annual sales. Ford never came close. Last year's retail sales were 89,802 cars.

2. Ford made enormous improvements in Jaguar's quality, reliability and handling and performance but could never create the right cars to build and the right strategy to sell them. Maybe Ford doesn't understand luxury cars all that well - can Tata or M&M help?

3. Would an Indian owned Jaguar go well with Jaguar's typically snobby target market? 50% of its sales are in the US - threatened due to strengthening of Euro. No manufacturing base in US for balancing out exchange rate fluctuations -No competent diesel threatening Euro sales.

Positives:

1. With Land Rover thrown in, maybe it'll all work out somehow..?

2. Would be nice to borrow a page or two from the lads in Coventry to improve quality of Tata/M&M products...easier said than done though.

3. Cheaper Land Rovers/Jags for us all if they're manufactured in India! Yaabadabadoo!

Do comment guys, I'm pretty curious about this deal!

Wishing you a great 2008
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Old 2nd January 2008, 18:42   #225
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I like a lot of things about the brits, but one thing they can't do anymore is make a decent car.

Most british brands trail even the american cars in quality and reliability. BMW and Rover have spend billions and failed to revive these brands. Some of you may remember that BMW bought rover and failed. The then CEO was fired after Land Rover was sold to ford and the rover car division to some private equity firm.

I wish Tata's good luck and I would love to see the Land rover defender sold in India at a decent price, maybe with the new 2.2 liter engine. But personally I think Tata's will fail in this venture. They have been in the Indian industry for many years and still the biggest complaint about Tata is the quality and reliability of their products. I am not sure how they will succeed with Land Rover when Ford and BMW have failed to revive the brand.
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