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Old 2nd January 2008, 21:12   #226
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yes indeed, on a serious note, the question is how will tata revive the jaguar?
i hope it prove to be productive cause so far it has been a liability for the owners
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Old 2nd January 2008, 23:26   #227
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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post


1. Ford bought Jaguar in 1990 for $2.5 billion. This sum was considered too large then given the marque's precarious history and labour-union controlled factories. The turnaround never happened - Jaguar has been a failure. The operation was selling 50,000 vehicles per year when Ford bought it, and the goal was to get it up to 250,000 annual sales. Ford never came close. Last year's retail sales were 89,802 cars.

2. Ford made enormous improvements in Jaguar's quality, reliability and handling and performance but could never create the right cars to build and the right strategy to sell them. Maybe Ford doesn't understand luxury cars all that well - can Tata or M&M help?

3. Would an Indian owned Jaguar go well with Jaguar's typically snobby target market? 50% of its sales are in the US - threatened due to strengthening of Euro. No manufacturing base in US for balancing out exchange rate fluctuations -No competent diesel threatening Euro sales.
Excellent points you have raised here, sir.

Jaguar, while not being exactly a huge success while under Ford, have had their bright moments, although more failures than successes.
The main mistakes I believe Ford made with Jaguar are
- Not positioning the Jaguar brand properly, and not giving it's products appeal to a wider customer base. The first XK8's automatic transmission, and fully wood-n-leather interior, and its fluffy ride quality meant it simply would not appeal to anyone below 45-50 years of age. In fact, all their cars pandered to the requirements of mainly middle-aged clientile. They tried making amends by blatantly targetting a younger customer base with their X-type, but that failed due to different reasons.
-Similarly, trying too hard to give the S-type a 'retro' look in order to preserve the 'Jaguar' traditional design cues. Needless to say, the design was a complete disaster, and the car was also underdeveloped. They did not learn their lessons, and made a complete horlicks of their X-type too. Fearing that a radical redesign of the XJ would give them big trouble, their all-new model looked exactly like the older one, which diminished its new-ness. Who cared if it used aerospace construction techniques if it looked 10 years old out of the showroom?
Only towards the end of their Ford-owned period, did some radical new age designs begin rolling out of Jaguar's studios. The new XK, though Aston like, is at least new age. Now their future rests on the shoulders of their new saloon, the XF.
- Even though quality and reliability increased in leaps and bounds under Ford, it still was nowhere near the German brands, according to various surveys.
- Desperate to get Jaguar some volumes, Ford resorted to brandname-sullying measures to increase the range, and saleability. Front wheel drive, 4wd, diesel, estate- these were never previously associated with the leaping cat, and this put purists off.

Now it remains to be seen how the US market reacts to the takeover. Anything could happen.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 03:08   #228
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yes indeed, on a serious note, the question is how will tata revive the jaguar?
i hope it prove to be productive cause so far it has been a liability for the owners
Maybe they could get those ALLEGED gung-ho guys they used to pay protection money to on their tea estates to sort out the union wale at LR and Jag. Then they could build a brand new plant in Kolkotta to manufacture Tata Safaris rebadged as LR Safari.

I think the usual will happen. The Indian press will con the Indian public into believing that TATA have performed a coup d'etat and snatched these priceless gems from Ford. Rattan Tata will be hailed as the best thing since sliced bread and get to appear on that dreadful Simi Garewal chat show (where she sucks up to people) to boast about his corporate conquests.

After a few years nothing will improve and TATA will shut up shop and ship over all the plants and machinary to India to make LR's in India. They will not be an export hit as no Lord Snob is going to drive an Indian vehicle and every bunti aur babli in India will be driving one of these Indian made LRs.

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Analysts, meanwhile, are also wary of Tata's bid for Jaguar and Land Rover, saying a global economic slowdown would hit luxury car sales.
"I really doubt Tata Motors can do better than Ford did with these brands over the past decade," said Sabarad.
Full story

AFP: India's Tata group set to launch world's cheapest car

Last edited by bigman : 3rd January 2008 at 03:17.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 03:18   #229
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Originally Posted by islero View Post
The new XK, though Aston like, is at least new age. Now their future rests on the shoulders of their new saloon, the XF.
- Even though quality and reliability increased in leaps and bounds under Ford, it still was nowhere near the German brands, according to various surveys.
Quite true. The XK has been compared to the Aston Martin DB9 on many occassions.

It'll be interesting to see how TATA fares with Jaguar (if the take over actually happens).
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Old 3rd January 2008, 06:34   #230
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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
3. Cheaper Land Rovers/Jags for us all if they're manufactured in India! Yaabadabadoo!
A Jaguar X type at US prices of around $35K should be around 14 Lakhs. 2007 Jaguar X-Type | New Jaguar Sedans — Yahoo! Autos When the Sonatas and Camry's are priced around this price, if a Jag can be priced at 15 - 20 lakhs I am sure there will be buyers, in India. They could also focus on China, Brazil, South Africa and other emerging markets. I'd say screw the US market, and focus on the markets where you can sell.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 13:28   #231
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Good points, Bigman, here's another similar idea:

Maybe they could shift all the Jaguar manufacturing gear over here, and it could become the the Ambassador of the future
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Old 3rd January 2008, 15:43   #232
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I'd say screw the US market, and focus on the markets where you can sell.
I was thinking on similar lines too .. who needs the US car market anymore. Catch those markets that are emerging and not submerging.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 15:53   #233
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The announcement would be made in the next 1 hour (saw this on CNBC)
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Old 3rd January 2008, 17:36   #234
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Announcing that announcements are going to be made?

What a crazy world!
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Old 3rd January 2008, 17:48   #235
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Some people have said (elsewhere, and perhaps here too) that with Tata ownership Jaguar will find a new market in India.

My undestanding is that they'll still have to pay the massive import duties (unless they go the Mercedes way), and will then have to compete head to head against Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc on price.

When they can't flourish in their more traditional markets which have far higher volumes, what chance do they have in India other then some glory sales?

It appears that some announcement is due and TATA are going to buy them anyway. My best wishes to them, I want them to be successful though personally would have preferred they'd rather taken a different route to the same goals.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 17:56   #236
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Originally Posted by AMATMO View Post
As a rule cars manufactured outside are charged with 105% custom duty
i hope the government reduces the tax on LR and the jag to atleast 60% considering ts now owned by an india based company
this way tata might make profits atleast in india
face it why would one opt for a cayene,X5,Q7 if range rover comes for the same price?
so this was practically we'll be importing cars from our own country
and if taxes are reduced india will be the only contry in the world where the jaguar sales will beat all the german marks
That sounds like a WTO case in the making.

And if the duties are reduced equally for all manufacturers, Jaguar/LR won't have any better luck. Why do you think they aren't competeing here already, billion-people-superpower-economy and all?

Better would be for Tata to manufacture at least one high volume Jaguar platform from India (after 12-18 months), while keeping the rest in Britainistan.
And the reason to do that should be to cut manufacturing costs and increase proftability per unit, plus leverage better terms from the firangi workforce.
Not domestic sales...*shudder*

Last edited by SuperSyn : 3rd January 2008 at 18:01.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 19:24   #237
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Tata has been declared the preferred bidder just now by Ford
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Old 3rd January 2008, 19:27   #238
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Not much of an announcement

BBC NEWS | Business | Tata closes in on Jaguar takeover
Ford has confirmed that India's Tata Motors will be the likely buyer of its UK-based Jaguar and Land Rover brands.
The US giant said it is now committed to negotiations "at a more detailed level" with Tata over the sale.

Last edited by bigman : 3rd January 2008 at 19:29.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 22:31   #239
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Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post
That sounds like a WTO case in the making.

And if the duties are reduced equally for all manufacturers, Jaguar/LR won't have any better luck. Why do you think they aren't competeing here already, billion-people-superpower-economy and all?

Better would be for Tata to manufacture at least one high volume Jaguar platform from India (after 12-18 months), while keeping the rest in Britainistan.
And the reason to do that should be to cut manufacturing costs and increase proftability per unit, plus leverage better terms from the firangi workforce.
Not domestic sales...*shudder*

i meant reducing the duties to 60% only for LR and jag

not the other manufacturers
i meant preferencial discount only for jag and LR
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Old 3rd January 2008, 22:49   #240
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Looks like the TATAs will make it.. more than $2 billion offered
Tata preferred bidder for Jaguar, Land Rover: Ford-India Business-Business-The Times of India
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