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Old 11th December 2007, 09:15   #121
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First of all US is not Europe.
As for explaining things every second thing on the shelves is chinese. If skin color was a real issue, everybody would boycott all ipods, Dell laptops, Gateway PCs....
I don't see that happening.
Walk into any upmarket clothes store(MAcy's etc.,) and you will find so many overpriced clothes with made in India tags which sell in good numbers.

Perceived quality if Indian made clothes is good. So people will buy them. Similarly perceived quality of Indian made cars is poor.

As for software companies, I have not seen any customer asking me to get lost because I am not white.
Majority of the software labor force in the Silicon Valley is Indian or Oriental.

So its all a case of economics and perceived quality. Nobody will boycott a good car just because its not made by Americans. If quality is good it will sell. Hyundai used to be called pizza delivery boy's car, but since they upped the game, their market share is rising and they are selling.

If Tata can give quality product they will also sell.

As for racism, its made into a much bigger thing it actually is. Of course there is some, but its not as bad in some other places I have lived in, but to discuss those would be going OT.
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Old 11th December 2007, 11:18   #122
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Originally Posted by sqwall View Post
I read in TOI a couple of days back that the dealer network for Jaguar in US is opposed to an 'Indian' company owning the brand. They say it would dent to the image. Is it because of an image problem with the Indian manufacturers or lack of elite lineage?
The answer to your question is within your question itself:

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I read in TOI a couple of days back
Dont take TOI seriously, unless you live on the same alien planet that they seem to publish from.
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Old 11th December 2007, 11:44   #123
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Land Rover seems to have managed record sales. This might be of interest to Tata and Mahindra.
Source: Pistonheads
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Old 12th December 2007, 00:09   #124
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
First of all US is not Europe.
As for explaining things every second thing on the shelves is chinese. If skin color was a real issue, everybody would boycott all ipods, Dell laptops, Gateway PCs....
Made in China, designed and created by Americans. This has never been a problem, people b!tch about non-existent quality issues a bit, but will buy it anyway because it is available cheap.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Walk into any upmarket clothes store(MAcy's etc.,) and you will find so many overpriced clothes with made in India tags which sell in good numbers.
Made in India, designed and owned by Americans.

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Perceived quality if Indian made clothes is good. So people will buy them. Similarly perceived quality of Indian made cars is poor.
We are talking about Indian owned rather than Indian made. Indian labor was never a problem in any market.

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As for software companies, I have not seen any customer asking me to get lost because I am not white.
Majority of the software labor force in the Silicon Valley is Indian or Oriental.
Software is not a luxury item that is flaunted in country clubs.

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So its all a case of economics and perceived quality. Nobody will boycott a good car just because its not made by Americans. If quality is good it will sell.
Like I said earlier, in the luxury segment quality isn't the only thing that moves goods. Brand India is not the same as Brand Europe, not yet anyway and I am not talking of quality here.


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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
As for racism, its made into a much bigger thing it actually is. Of course there is some, but its not as bad in some other places I have lived in, but to discuss those would be going OT.
Racism is everywhere but in US people do not show it outwardly like they do in other places. Anyway it is OT.

Last edited by Mayavi : 12th December 2007 at 00:12.
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Old 12th December 2007, 22:13   #125
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If you are still not convinced that skin color plays a role in the luxury market, read this

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The government and industry have expressed resentment over the way US luxury hotel chain Orient Express spurned Tatas' offer for a strategic tie-up, stating Indian firms with global ambitions should not be discriminated against."There cannot be any discrimination against outward investment from India," Commerce and Industry Minister Kamal Nath told PTI.
He said in an era of globalisation, "trade and investment is a two-way street". Orient Express had cited possible erosion in value of its premium brands as reason for turning down the offer for a tie-up with the "predominantly Indian" chain.
"We do not believe that there is a strategic fit between your predominantly domestic Indian hotel chain and our global portfolio of luxury hotels," Orient Express CEO Paul White wrote to Indian Hotels vice-chairman R K Krishna Kumar.
So they are claiming that Indian group service is not the same as International group? Thats BS. TATA group owns Four Luxury hotels in New York (three are owned and one is maintained by the group) and some of its hotels are rated in the top 10 hotels of the world.

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Taj Hotels Resorts and Palaces comprises 59 hotels at 40 locations across India with an additional 17 international hotels in the Maldives, Mauritius, Malaysia, United Kingdom, United States of America, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Africa, the Middle East and Australia.

Last edited by Mayavi : 12th December 2007 at 22:16.
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Old 12th December 2007, 23:05   #126
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
Now I am not saying that it is entirely based on skin color, but just that people of lesser hues should work a bit harder to be considered equals. Being same quality and technology doesn't cut it, it should be more. ........Or ask the Indian software companies. It will take time for Indian companies to be accepted by mainstream Americans (major market for Jag/LR) .
Would the partakers of the Indian Software companies buy an Indian made Jag in US?
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Old 13th December 2007, 05:19   #127
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I haven't read through all of this thread but as a Brit I have some thoughts on why TATA want's JLR:

1.) JLR have world class engineering facilities in Coventry and Gaydon, TATA in nearby Kenilworth is struggling along at the Uni of Warwick. By mergin op's they can move in the JLR.

2.) JLR has a Global dealer network

3.) JLR owns the Rover brand. In the English speaking world TATA as a brand is problematic because it sounds too much like Tatty. By buying JLR TATA also get Rover, a brand that people know all over the world and a brand that can share the JLR dealer network.

4.) Land Rover is only just begining to tap into it's potential. It is a very strong brand with no sales in Asia to speak of. TATA's factory in Pune can make CKD kits for local sales.

5.) Jag's not really a problem. In reality it's a small part of Land Rover that has a strong brand but the wrong cars. The new XF is the right car for the brand. It has a 7 month waiting time in the USA alone. Jag is nearly fixed.

6.) A fixed Jag would be worth a lot of money. Premium cars like Jag or Land Rover can make more money than brands such as VW. Porsche is buying VW is it not?

7.) Ford now claim JLR is making money.
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Old 13th December 2007, 08:46   #128
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I dont think anyone is going to care who owns Jaguar and Land Rover. Look at Aston Martin, arent they Kuwaiti owned now? Does that stop anyone from buying Aston Martins? I doubt it. As long as the main design influences and quality remain consistent its not going to make a difference to anyone. IBM which is now Lenovo is now Chinese owned. I dont see anyone switching to Dell because of that. There will be a tonne of people who would make fun of an Indian company owning Jag/LR but at the end of the day it doesnt matter. What matters is whether or not Tata will be able to turn the brand around into a money maker which IMO Tata can do. Jaguar and LR are both very big brands and Im sure they will really add value to Tata's product portfolio.
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Old 13th December 2007, 09:19   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
If you are still not convinced that skin color plays a role in the luxury market, read this



So they are claiming that Indian group service is not the same as International group? Thats BS. TATA group owns Four Luxury hotels in New York (three are owned and one is maintained by the group) and some of its hotels are rated in the top 10 hotels of the world.
This doesnt prove anything. The Orient Express has a fairly large number of hotels all over the world and maybe they didnt consider the Taj group established enough. I dont see anything wrong with that. While Taj does have hotels abroad I dont think theyre that big a deal abroad as they are in India.
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Old 13th December 2007, 09:21   #130
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I guess a lot of it is mere posturing. While I have my own doubts on what Tata will do with JLR, I am sure they'll be able to fix it with their unique blend of keeping the original management intact, while providing new direction.
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Old 13th December 2007, 10:47   #131
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If Tata can deliver a quality product, people will buy it. Look at Lexus, Infinity etc.,
There are many people who will buy an american car only no matter what, but if you look at the big picture, a car won't fail due to ownership, it will do well or fail depending on how good the car is and how customer friendly the car company is.
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Old 13th December 2007, 11:45   #132
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JLR owns the Rover brand.
Nope. AFAIK its owned by some chinese company now. Shanghai and Nanjing Automotive or something like that. They got the MG and Rover brands.
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Old 13th December 2007, 16:58   #133
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At such a proud moment, when an Indian has been elected as the top honcho at the largest financial institution in the world (USA based BTW), we are having our doubts on whether an Indian owned Jaguar would sell?!!!!!

Absolute hogwash. As long as the cars are good, Jaguar will sell. In todays world of consolidation, no one cares two hoots about who owns the company. In fact, many dont even know who does. If you see an Indian owned Jaguar as a compromise, its only as much as a German owned Rolls Royce or an American owned Aston Martin. So much for the heritage. May also do us good to remember how a brand new Japanese owned luxo brand (Lexus) beat the crap out of the famed Merc + BMW brigade. Audi wasnt even in contention.
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Old 13th December 2007, 16:59   #134
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Nope. AFAIK its owned by some chinese company now. Shanghai and Nanjing Automotive or something like that. They got the MG and Rover brands.
That's true.
Tatas did take a look at the Rover too. There was a strong rumour in 2004-05 that Tata will buy it. But Tatas withdrew.
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Old 13th December 2007, 20:26   #135
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
At such a proud moment, when an Indian has been elected as the top honcho at the largest financial institution in the world (USA based BTW), we are having our doubts on whether an Indian owned Jaguar would sell?!!!!!

Absolute hogwash. As long as the cars are good, Jaguar will sell. In todays world of consolidation, no one cares two hoots about who owns the company. In fact, many dont even know who does. If you see an Indian owned Jaguar as a compromise, its only as much as a German owned Rolls Royce or an American owned Aston Martin. So much for the heritage. May also do us good to remember how a brand new Japanese owned luxo brand (Lexus) beat the crap out of the famed Merc + BMW brigade. Audi wasnt even in contention.

Exactly !! I think this is a proud moment for all of us and we should be celebrating Tata's success instead of being cynical.

btw Aston Martin is now part Kuwaiti owned and part English owned.
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