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Old 25th July 2007, 19:04   #16
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Who is this professor? Name?
My bad he's actually from U of M @Flint. Here's the link to that study.
CARPE DIEM: Transformational UAW Deal? Accept Professors' Pay
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Old 26th July 2007, 00:24   #17
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One big problem is that people still follow the old saying that "there is no replacement for displacement". The thought processes are so very narrow, that they never tend to look outside.
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Old 26th July 2007, 14:15   #18
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And in some cases even more, MB now has a 7-speed auto while Lexus has introduced an 8-speed one!

Correct me if I am wrong ,..but the CITY CVT has a 7 speed Automatic too,..does't it.

After having driven one for the past week, directly graduating from a 5 speed manual NHC . The difference in driving refinement is astounding.

This prompted me to think that in the "real world" with these sophisticated auto boxes, do manuals really have that much of a performance advantage as touted. May be when it comes to quarter mile drags and top speeds the Manual tranny does rule,..but in the real work where the 20-80 slog matters its a different story.

The shifts in this one are so seamless that by the time I decide to shift to third (if driving a maunual),..this slick auto box has done that given me the push and has shifted back to 4th. Simply brilliant !!!
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Old 26th July 2007, 14:54   #19
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well - technology is one of the reasons for the machines running into trouble. second was their very "protective" nature in the market. They would rather put down the jap cars in the 80s than adapt to their manufacturing methods. The second was the differnece in the unions. None of the jap mfgs have unions. However, the employees at the Toyota's Kentucky plant have been quoted saying that they company looks after them so well, that they have not required the need for a union.
While detroit is loosing factories- toyota's building them. Strange ways the world works in. The Japs tight control on quality and more importantly knowledge has allowed them to adapt and deploy according to the market reaction.
The oil crisis in the 70's really hit the big three - while toyota's machines went ahead.
Another example is the hybrids - toyota and honda launched their hybrids while ford was still on the drawing board. A lot is spent on R&D to ensure that tings go ahead faster.
The final blow might have been in the "Made in America" badge. The lastest SUV from toyota was designed and mfgd in the US. Now, the non-us backlash can and will reduce.

So how much does a car cost anyways ? Found this image on the internet - This will throw some light on the CAr splits -

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Old 26th July 2007, 14:56   #20
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This prompted me to think that in the "real world" with these sophisticated auto boxes, do manuals really have that much of a performance advantage as touted. May be when it comes to quarter mile drags and top speeds the Manual tranny does rule,..but in the real work where the 20-80 slog matters its a different story.
Nope. With some cars, the automatics are faster than the manuals. Whether manual or slushbox is just an individual preference.
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Old 26th July 2007, 16:13   #21
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The point here is simply that Big three are paying double the paycheques for nothing.

UAW has decided to hold talks with Ford because its the last one in line and can fall off anytime.
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Old 26th July 2007, 20:04   #22
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The point here is simply that Big three are paying double the paycheques for nothing.

UAW has decided to hold talks with Ford because its the last one in line and can fall off anytime.
Which means they might have an edge over the other two (GM and Chrysler) during negotiations with the UAW, in wage cuts etc. with the union not having much of a choice.
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Old 26th July 2007, 20:59   #23
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The Japs tight control on... knowledge has allowed them to adapt and deploy according to the market reaction.

I strongly disagree. Toyota has open doors for anybody from the industry to see their plants. Everyone knows the little details about how their manufacturing works. But no one know WHY it works that way. Everyone has tried to emulate that system but none have been as successful as Toyota. The reason for that is their policy of continual improvement. By the time you have implemented what you have seen at their plant, they have already moved on to a more efficient way of doing the same thing.

The Japs have even allowed GM to "learn" making small cars the right way through its Geo brand. What more did Detroit need to make a decent small car? Think about it, they've been building cars for 100 years now, and I think its shameful they STILL cant figure it out!
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Old 26th July 2007, 23:56   #24
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Ford has made a profit of $750 million, it's first in the last 7 quarters. Just saw this on CNBC in a programme that had Hormazd Sorabjee among others discussing about the Land Rover, Jag sell off. But Ford's plans to close some factories in North America still stands.
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Old 27th July 2007, 01:05   #25
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Ford has made a profit of $750 million, it's first in the last 7 quarters. Just saw this on CNBC in a programme that had Hormazd Sorabjee among others discussing about the Land Rover, Jag sell off. But Ford's plans to close some factories in North America still stands.
yea they managed to surprise industry experts and blog sites which like to take a particular topic and beat the s*** out of it and try to sound cool and "we know it all" doing it!
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Old 27th July 2007, 01:06   #26
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Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
The Japs have even allowed GM to "learn" making small cars the right way through its Geo brand. What more did Detroit need to make a decent small car? Think about it, they've been building cars for 100 years now, and I think its shameful they STILL cant figure it out!
One of the older Geo's ...the prizm was based on that generation toyota corolla. is that what you're talking about?
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Old 27th July 2007, 01:52   #27
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Yeah...the prizm was a corolla, the metro was a suzuki swift, tracker was a suzuki santana/jimny & spectrum/storm were from Isuzu.
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Old 27th July 2007, 09:53   #28
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Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
I strongly disagree. Toyota has open doors for anybody from the industry to see their plants. Everyone knows the little details about how their manufacturing works. But no one know WHY it works that way. Everyone has tried to emulate that system but none have been as successful as Toyota. The reason for that is their policy of continual improvement. By the time you have implemented what you have seen at their plant, they have already moved on to a more efficient way of doing the same thing.

The Japs have even allowed GM to "learn" making small cars the right way through its Geo brand. What more did Detroit need to make a decent small car? Think about it, they've been building cars for 100 years now, and I think its shameful they STILL cant figure it out!
When I said "tight control" it was not a cloak and dagger type - no one can see it. They have guided tours and they have writen books - but more that the control on a metophorical scale - they know exactly how much and where. The control they excercise over the entire production has allowed for it to be able to adapt quickly. We are both talking about the same point.

Another thing is i think the way the toyota system is - they work with thri suppliers as well to ensure they have JIT. So toyota engineers go over to their suppliers' plants and ensure that the right systems are in place thereby allowing them to have the right amount of inventory and no excess waste!
I remember seeing this video that has the bumper mfg of a toyota - the engineers drilled down the entire production and design process to improve it. Then they helped them save inventory and make them also a JIT plant.

However- in the case of the big three - take delphi for example - GM at the first sign of trouble - spun it out. Now its running into huge losses -that s the difference.

I think it was quoted by Mr. [SIZE=-1]Hiroshi Okuda- he said anyone from a VP level has access to fords company jet - whereas even he as - chairman of Toyota flies business class. .

Guess its the attitude.

If you go to the UAW site - they have fought vehemently for the empolyees of delphi as well - in that they are quoted as saying " ...(the chairman of Delphi) flies in on the company jet - transfers your jobs to mexico and South America and then flies back to have his champagne and celebrate the few extra dollars that the stock holders have earned."
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Old 27th July 2007, 09:55   #29
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yea they managed to surprise industry experts and blog sites which like to take a particular topic and beat the s*** out of it and try to sound cool and "we know it all" doing it!
There is a site set up by ford about -how cool trucks are really. I mean - the whole world is moving towards the smaller car - and more efficient car -they are talking about brainwashing the public in buying "Cool" SUVs.
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Old 27th July 2007, 11:50   #30
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isnt it the worst time for FORD to release such details in the market?


everyone knows UAW is out for negotiations. With Ford Making profits it will be tough for the big three to push harder. Now it will be chrysler on the anvil. And wolfgang Bernhard is returning to Chrysler. is that a morning light for US automakers?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/bu...l?ref=business

Last edited by devarshi84 : 27th July 2007 at 11:53.
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