Volkswagen Phaeton... Not good enough?

[extreme_torque]

In the forum when we talk about the super luxury cars, no one talks about Volkswagen Phaeton. Is it because it comes from a manufacturer which makes people cars or is it becase you think the car isnt good enough... The car has all the gadgets and more than any merc s class or a beemer 7 series has, in terms of speed and refinment at speeds, it betters both of them, I even love the looks of it, very subtle, solid germanic appearence.
I remember one episode from TG where clarkson preferred it over the Jaguar even with the VW tag.
I think its one of the most underrated cars in its catagory, there's only one test drive video I could find for this car, topgear and even that wasnt very comprehensive, no other video what so ever. Even here on the forum I hardly see people talking about it.
Are the big three the Audi, Merc and Beemer too big for the VW or the car is plain ignored.
Give your thoughts on the car or if you have driven or been driven in the car ever.

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Give your thoughts on the car or if you have driven or been driven in the car ever.

Never driven or been driven in one but the main reason she failed in the market was because the VW badge does not the have the kudos to compete with the BMW/Mercedes/Audi badges in the international market at the price levels that the Pheaton was priced at.

Nobody wants to be seen on a 60k Pound VW when they could be driving around in a 7-Series or S-Class or A8 for slightly more money. It's not that the car has a problem but it's the badge that lets it down. In short, nobody wants to be seen in a "People's Car" costing that kind of money.

[extreme_torque]

Even Lexus comes from Toyota and it isnt doing bad at all.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Even Lexus comes from Toyota and it isnt doing bad at all.

That's why it is called Lexus, if badged oyota, it would be different. A lot has gone into brand building, seperate showrooms etc.

you can pick up Phaetons in the UK for 20000 pounds onwards, almost 33-50% less than new. Makes a good bargain

[iraghava]

Yes, because Lexus is a seperate sub-brand like Acura, Infinity etc. and is positioned to take on the German luxury brands offering products in their class while being slightly cheaper. Remember, having a sub-brand in the brand conscious high-end market makes a lot of difference as quite a few customers don't associate the luxury brand with the parent brand.

Whereas, the Pheaton is sold out of the same showroom from where one buys a Polo costing 9-10k GBP and is serviced in the same service centre & has the same badge. This is unacceptable to a lot of people that their "expensive" high-end car shares the badge with a normal, cheap commuter car.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by iraghava

Whereas, the Pheaton is sold out of the same showroom from where one buys a Polo costing 9-10k GBP and is serviced in the same service centre & has the same badge. This is unacceptable to a lot of people that their "expensive" high-end car shares the badge with a normal, cheap commuter car.

Yup I understand evey bit you are saying, but even then as a car which it is so good, i think it deserves a little more attention.
You are not entirely true... If I remember correctly phaeton has a seperate assembly line and sales outlets.
Probably volkswagen should have also floated a luxury brand and marketed the car under it. It deserves to sell a lot more.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Probably volkswagen should have also floated a luxury brand and marketed the car under it. It deserves to sell a lot more.

Why should they when they have Bentley which is a Phaeton with some cows and trees stuck on

[extreme_torque]

So if it was destined to be a failure I wonder why volkswagen made it so good, spending so much time and money on it and I wonder what marketing boffins were doing when the decision was taken.

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

You are not entirely true... If I remember correctly phaeton has a seperate assembly line and sales outlets.
Probably volkswagen should have also floated a luxury brand and marketed the car under it. It deserves to sell a lot more.

Seperate assembly line yes, seperate outlets no. And they need the seperate line in any case, VW does not make anything even similar in size & equipment other than this.

And remember that the Pheaton like the Veyron was a project of Ferdinand Piech & he wanted to build them despite knowing that they'll cause huge losses to the company just to prove that VW had the capability to do it. They did build them & built them well but as expected the Pheaton failed miserably (I remember that either in '05 or '06 the Pheaton sold 2700 pieces worldwide whereas, in the same period the S-class sold over 60,000 pieces) , infact they have already been pulled out of the US market due to poor sales.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

So if it was destined to be a failure I wonder why volkswagen made it so good, spending so much time and money on it and I wonder what marketing boffins were doing when the decision was taken.

They had no answer to the stubborn mountain called Ferdinand Piech.

Originally Posted by ajmat

Why should they when they have Bentley which is a Phaeton with some cows and trees stuck on

Exactly. And has a swollen body too!

[sivadas]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Probably volkswagen should have also floated a luxury brand and marketed the car under it. It deserves to sell a lot more.

You mean volkswagen should have floated one more luxury brand, right?

[grvanand]

Audi and Bentley belongs to VW. Why would they need yet another one? IMO, it was just an experiment to see the market response or judge the brand value, which they might have assessed by now.

As far as capabilities of making luxury cars goes, if VW can make Audi and Bentley, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind as to whether they are capable .

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by iraghava

Seperate assembly line yes, seperate outlets no. And they need the seperate line in any case, VW does not make anything even similar in size & equipment other than this.

Ishan, please see this link... it mentions phaeton has a specialist retailer network.
Volkswagen UK > Retailers

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by grvanand

Audi and Bentley belongs to VW. Why would they need yet another one? IMO, it was just an experiment to see the market response or judge the brand value, which they might have assessed by now.

A very costly experiment at that... they could have got reasonable idea by using some market research company IMHO rather than making the car itself and judging the market, or may be they were too overambitious.

Came across this site on the phaeton... stunning engineering I must say...
Volkswagen UK / The Phaeton / Discover more

[lurker]

Originally Posted by iraghava

Nobody wants to be seen on a 60k Pound VW when they could be driving around in a 7-Series or S-Class or A8 for slightly more money. It's not that the car has a problem but it's the badge that lets it down. In short, nobody wants to be seen in a "People's Car" costing that kind of money.

I fit the profile of a Phaeton customer to a 'T'. I love the Superb's/Phaeton's and their sort of understated looks. The only problem is I do not have the money to purchase a Phaeton. lol And neither am I going to start an IPO or nor am I about to sell a property to get one.

It is not that i do not love to drive BMW's or Mercs but in India, I somehow feel far better if i can drive something like the Superb or to stretch quite a bit a Phaeton and lead people to believe that i am in a Octavia or a Passat.

I mean the last thing I want is more attention and envious/jealous eye***** from all and sundry. And quite sure i am that there are quite a lot of people who can actually afford to buy a Phaeton think exactly like me too.

[chpk]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

A very costly experiment at that... they could have got reasonable idea by using some market research company IMHO rather than making the car itself and judging the market, or may be they were too overambitious.

Came across this site on the phaeton... stunning engineering I must say...
Volkswagen UK / The Phaeton / Discover more

There's no denying that phaeton was a engineering marvel.. everybody loved it.... but every body hated it because it was branded as VW at a AUDI cost and called it 'people's car' !! The amount of money invested on design for this car could have easily brought two new polo kind of cars for VW... but they went ahead with this car only bcoz of Piech and rest is history... it was foolish to take the brand upmarket when they already had AUDI in that market.... anyways, there is a new phaeton coming in 2009 and hope they dont make the same mistake...