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Old 14th December 2007, 14:27   #31
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Do you think Diesel is cheaper than Petrol in the US?
Nope. But it is more suited to load carrying than petrol engines are. Also, even if petrol and diesel are identically priced, the latter is anywhere between 10 - 20% more fuel efficient.
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Old 14th December 2007, 14:43   #32
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Diesel costs 10-15% more in US.
As for load carrying, there are diesel pickup trucks for that price in the semi rural market.
I have a suspicion that Mahindra is going to offer the hybrid diesel for that price. 25000$ for a diesel hybrid truck will be a killer VFM product for the US market, for which there won't be any local competition
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Old 14th December 2007, 14:57   #33
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A search on the net for prices yields 2.95$ as the cheapest gas price and 3.25$ as the cheapest diesel price. So a 10-15% higher efficiency of diesel is irrelevant atleast for a pickup. Also diesel availability is quite suspect in the US. Not all fuel bunks carry diesel.
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Old 14th December 2007, 15:12   #34
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You missed my big grin smiley or what? It was mentioned in a light vein.

Incidentally, the US still imports its manhole covers from India and I do hope you are aware of the recent controversy over the New York Times article highlighting the pathetic conditions in which the Indian labourers make them.

Check this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/ny...=1&oref=slogin
And we talk about Chinese sweatshops. Look at our own country. Inhuman conditions for workers. Will we ever learn to take life seriously??
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Old 14th December 2007, 15:14   #35
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Also, even if petrol and diesel are identically priced, the latter is anywhere between 10 - 20% more fuel efficient.
30-33% is more like it.
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Old 14th December 2007, 15:18   #36
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And we talk about Chinese sweatshops. Look at our own country. Inhuman conditions for workers. Will we ever learn to take life seriously??
And then the MNCs complain about Indian labour laws being too harsh on factory owners, not being investor-friendly enough!
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Old 14th December 2007, 20:52   #37
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Lets just hope Mahindra has prototyped the scorpio in US with its actual intended use as well as the uses the car will be put through like hauling etc.
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Old 14th December 2007, 21:11   #38
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Thats great news. I am proud to be an Indian!!
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Old 14th December 2007, 21:33   #39
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Diesel costs 10-15% more in US.
As for load carrying, there are diesel pickup trucks for that price in the semi rural market.
I have a suspicion that Mahindra is going to offer the hybrid diesel for that price. 25000$ for a diesel hybrid truck will be a killer VFM product for the US market, for which there won't be any local competition

Definitely agree with that. Currently diesel pick up trucks retail at around 40-45K brand new. Add a hybrid and bump the price up at 10K. thats atleast 50K. Not that they have hybrid pick ups yet but if they were available this is how much they'd cost!
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Old 14th December 2007, 21:34   #40
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Diesel costs 10-15% more in US.
As for load carrying, there are diesel pickup trucks for that price in the semi rural market.
I have a suspicion that Mahindra is going to offer the hybrid diesel for that price. 25000$ for a diesel hybrid truck will be a killer VFM product for the US market, for which there won't be any local competition
There are no diesel light duty pickups at all in the US market. I think that's the void that Mahindra is after. Cheapest diesel pickup is the heavy duty V8 ones that are 40K plus.

I'd be interested to see the results of some kind of customer clinic or a road test by the US press.

Last edited by Mpower : 17th December 2007 at 09:24.
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Old 17th December 2007, 09:19   #41
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This is good news if true, but I advise everybody to be braced for bad press.

THis is a VERY harsh market, and the Scorpio is GUARANTEED to attract ridicule and scorn. It happened to the Japanese 40 years ago, it happened to the Koreans 20 years ago.

Only now, 20 years after its appearance in the US market is Hyundai STARTING to get respect, but is still scorned generally.

To gain respect here, a new manufacturer has to equal the VERY best. Being 4th best, never mind bottom of the pile, will not get you anywhere. Even as people have started to recognize that Hyundais are exceptionally reliable and decently good to drive, they STILL expect to pay much less. You can buy well equipped six cylinder sonatas for the price of low equipment level 4 cylinder camry or accord because of the huge discounts.

The Scorpio is VERY poor grade compared to the expectations here. You should see how harsh the west was towards Korean SUVs from SSangYong and Daewoo.

I am not trying to be discouraging so don't take this as a criticism, only a reality check. You have to start somewhere, but I would caution M&M from going in too early. If they besmirch their brand name with bad product now, they will spend 10 years digging themselves out of that hole.

There are too many exceptionally successful cars here for the market to be kind of weaklings. Japan number 2 Nissan took a tumble in this market 10 years ago, and they fell from grace, and even now they are digging themselves out of it, still considered second rate, despite having spent over 20 years at the top. Mitsubishi is laughed at here.

There are perhaps 400 different models of vehicle available to consumers here. M&M is stepping into shark infested waters, and Indians should prepare themselves for a lot of criticism and ridicule, and for the name of India to become synonymous with crap.

You should read what the british press has to say about the Tata Safari. I saw one review in which it got 0.5 stars out of maximum of 5, the only vehicle to score that.

Its a tought world out there.

Last edited by Harbir : 17th December 2007 at 09:20.
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Old 18th December 2007, 01:14   #42
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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
Only now, 20 years after its appearance in the US market is Hyundai STARTING to get respect, but is still scorned generally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
To gain respect here, a new manufacturer has to equal the VERY best.
I agree with you. But coming to think of it comapnies dont care about respect. Is your company making money after all or not??! At the end of the day they're making profits. They're scorned at by loyalists who are in denial that the cars they're loyal about have failed to keep up. I would buy a Hyundai and Kia anyday just for value for money they offer. The one's that scorn are the one's that're doing bad. Folks that do good are always on the roll
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Old 18th December 2007, 01:29   #43
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Originally Posted by highwayblaze View Post
I agree with you. But coming to think of it comapnies dont care about respect. Is your company making money after all or not??! At the end of the day they're making profits. They're scorned at by loyalists who are in denial that the cars they're loyal about have failed to keep up. I would buy a Hyundai and Kia anyday just for value for money they offer. The one's that scorn are the one's that're doing bad. Folks that do good are always on the roll
Quite true.
It'll be interesting to see how things go with M&M. There are a lot of people looking at the introduction of another Asian car maker,and if M&M can get it right the 1st time (in the regular commuter segment),perception about India & its automobiles will surely change.

Blaze,Hyundai & Kia sure make good cars. Very few negatives to point out about them.
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Old 18th December 2007, 01:43   #44
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Default manual transmission?

Most SUVs in the US Market have automatic transmissions. Will Mahindra be able to "improvise" one over the next few months? Typical warranties on Trannies here run about 100,000 Miles. Interesting times ahead.

I sincerely hope Mahindra succeeds.
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Old 18th December 2007, 03:34   #45
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I agree with you. But coming to think of it comapnies dont care about respect. Is your company making money after all or not??! At the end of the day they're making profits.
You're saying that brand value doesn't matter. I can't agree with you. You can sell without brand value only if you sell really cheap goods that people will buy just because of the price.

If you want to start competing for sales in the meatier portions of the market, you MUST have a respected brand, because when 10 other companies have a product thats roughly as good as yours, and costs the same as yours, then you have to rely on your brand to distinguish you. Vice versa, if you have a weak brand, you will need to sell extremely cheaply to make sales.

I appreciate that this is a big step and people are excited about it and not too easily detered by the challenges.

All I am saying is, be prepared for harsh criticism. Over here, the wonderful new Grand Vitara is considered the absolute WORST in its class. The Scorpio will not be welcomed with open arms.
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