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Old 19th December 2007, 18:49   #61
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I was talking about the current Wrangler, not the old one. But I'll be impressed if the Scorpio comes anywhere near being as good as the TJ.

I'm skeptical. After decades of building copies and underengineered variations of those copies using foreign engine and transmission designs, Mahindra does one model inhouse, and now suddenly they're ready to go head to head against the established players?

I'll believe it when I see it.
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Old 19th December 2007, 23:03   #62
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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
I was talking about the current Wrangler, not the old one. But I'll be impressed if the Scorpio comes anywhere near being as good as the TJ.
Well the current one has a newer 3.8L V6 (205 hp / 240 lb-ft), but the towing capacity is the same - 2,000 lbs for the standard model and 3,500 for the Unlimited.

Jeep did show the J8 military version this year at the DSEi defense show - an Unlimited with a reinforced chassis, new axles, brakes, and leaf-spring rear suspension. It has a 2.8L I4 Turbodiesel (160 hp / 295 lb-ft) which should be good for 7,700 lbs. Can't be sold in the US though, as it doesn't meet emissions requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
I'm skeptical. After decades of building copies and underengineered variations of those copies using foreign engine and transmission designs, Mahindra does one model inhouse, and now suddenly they're ready to go head to head against the established players?

I'll believe it when I see it.
Yeah, fair enough -- when they originally announced the US exports, the assumption was that they'd come up with a new model to export, but instead they're just upgrading the Scorpio, so let's see what they they can do...
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Old 20th December 2007, 10:06   #63
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Originally Posted by F1amit View Post
As per the Business standard article


That to for a SUV from a company in the third world ....that is to be launched after 15 months .....Are we on the same line here?

guys are you sure its scorpio suv?
as far as i remember M&M was supposed to launch a pickup truck in US
if its a pickup there is no surprise is seeng so many sold

even though they have mentioned suv i have a feeling its the pickup trucks

Last edited by AMATMO : 20th December 2007 at 10:07.
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Old 20th December 2007, 10:49   #64
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So does Mahindra have a Urea injection system(like the bluetec)?
Without this even the BMW can't become 50 state legal.
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Old 20th December 2007, 13:53   #65
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Originally Posted by AMATMO View Post
guys are you sure its scorpio suv?
as far as i remember M&M was supposed to launch a pickup truck in US
if its a pickup there is no surprise is seeng so many sold

even though they have mentioned suv i have a feeling its the pickup trucks
See my post on the last page for more info -- they're going to sell the Scorpio SUV and its pickup versions (2- and 4-door), which will be branded as "Appalachian."

As I mentioned, they have sold zero - 45,000 is just the importer's (ambitious) sales target.

Here's the importer's site: Global Vehicles USA - GV-USA
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Old 20th December 2007, 13:56   #66
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So does Mahindra have a Urea injection system(like the bluetec)?
Without this even the BMW can't become 50 state legal.
Yep, in an interview with PickupTruck.com, GV-USA's CEO said they'll have a urea system:

PickupTruck.Com - Interview with John Perez CEO of Global Vehicles USA
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Old 23rd December 2007, 08:33   #67
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News regarding the UK launch of the Scorpio:

Moving in to sting the SUV big boys

Moving in to sting the SUV big boys - Times Online
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Old 25th December 2007, 21:19   #68
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He talks of pricing in the low 20k range, I presume $22k. For a 120hp vehicle that takes 17 seconds to reach 60mph, this sounds dangerous. The Ford Escape SUV with the 153hp petrol engine and 4wd costs about $22k. A Ford F150 XL 4wd pick up truck with the 248hp V8 costs about $23k. Mahindra must have an ace up their sleeve
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Old 25th December 2007, 21:59   #69
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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
He talks of pricing in the low 20k range, I presume $22k. For a 120hp vehicle that takes 17 seconds to reach 60mph, this sounds dangerous. The Ford Escape SUV with the 153hp petrol engine and 4wd costs about $22k. A Ford F150 XL 4wd pick up truck with the 248hp V8 costs about $23k. Mahindra must have an ace up their sleeve
Harbir,

I lived for 2 years in Georgia and the trust me the south is as american and it gets. But Mahindra has been kicking john deere's a$$ in the south for small tractors.

A couple of reasons why Mahindra will work - particularly in the south -

- No snow, hence no salt , hence no issues with rust
- Winters are no different from our North - hence if it works in the Punjab, it will do balle balle in Alabama
- We Indians are notorious in over loading our vehicles, how many 8 seaters Sumos (with 60bhp) have we seen filled up to 18 people? Guess how much 18 people weigh? I see no issues in the scorpio being able to pull 2 ton payload.
- Scorpio has not had too many build quality issues in its 4 year history
- I honestly dont think that interiors in a ford ranger interior is waaay better than the scorpios
- lastly the options that you have on small pickups is getting pretty limited, almost zero when it comes to diesel options

My tuppence
-Vijay
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Old 26th December 2007, 02:55   #70
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Vijay,


It makes sense that people who have good ownership expereince with Mahindra tractors will be open minded about Mahindra road vehicles. But it is also true that Americans have not shown a fondness of diesels, even in trucks, and that expectations of overall refinement are very high.

I predict that the Mahindra has no chance with the general buying public but may indeed do well with the Indian diaspora and owners of Mahindra tractors.

Lets see how it goes. At any rate, its a start, and you have to start somewhere.
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Old 31st December 2007, 06:45   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
He talks of pricing in the low 20k range, I presume $22k. For a 120hp vehicle that takes 17 seconds to reach 60mph, this sounds dangerous. The Ford Escape SUV with the 153hp petrol engine and 4wd costs about $22k. A Ford F150 XL 4wd pick up truck with the 248hp V8 costs about $23k. Mahindra must have an ace up their sleeve
The engine specs they've told dealers (which they've gone on to tell the media) are 2.2L I4 diesel, 180 hp, 300 lb-ft, with 6-speed manual or 6-speed auto transmissions.

The old 2.6L Scorpio takes about 16 seconds to get to 60, so this should be somewhere in the 10-13 second range I'd imagine.

As for the competition, the Ford Escape is much smaller than the Scorpio and has no usable cargo capacity. The main competition is in the compact/mid-size pickup market, not the full-size market, so the F150 is irrelevant as well. Here's what the Scorpio pickup ("Appalachian") versions will target:

Mahindra 2.2L I4 turbodiesel: 180 hp / 300 lb-ft

Ford Ranger 2.3L I4: 143 hp / 154 lb-ft
Ford Ranger 3.0L V6: 148 hp / 180 lb-ft
Ford Ranger 4.0L V6: 207 hp / 238 lb-ft
Toyota Tacoma 2.7L I4: 159 hp / 180 lb-ft
Toyota Tacoma 4.0L V6: 236 hp / 266 lb-ft
Dodge Dakota 3.7L V6: 210 hp / 235 lb-ft
Dodge Dakota 4.7L Magnum V8: 230 hp / 290 lb-ft
Nissan Frontier 2.5L I4: 152 hp / 171 lb-ft
Nissan Frontier 4.0L V6: 261 hp / 281 lb-ft
Chevy Colorado 2.9L I4: 185 hp / 190 lb-ft
Chevy Colorado 3.7L I5: 242 hp / 242 lb-ft


So if Mahindra can meet the numbers it's released, its pickup will be putting out more torque than any mid-size pickup in the US except the high-output version of Dodge's 4.7L V8, which gets half the gas mileage Mahindra has quoted. In the low-$20k range, they'll fit in a bit below the upper-end Dakotas.
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Old 31st December 2007, 11:03   #72
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I'm sorry, none of this is convincing. We'll just have to see how the vehicle does in the market place. If people think that it looks or feels or drives like crap, or they aren't satisfied with its reliability or have trouble with finding dealers and parts, hp and torque figures won't matter.

I can see mahindra tractor owners and expatriates going for this vehicle, but I don't see any kind of main stream success. hp or torque figures not withstanding, there is a lot to what makes a vehicle good or bad, and Mahindra has NEVER EVER EVER made ANYTHING capable of competing on the global stage.

This is their first try and it may be a good try. But the idea that because it will be competitive because it has x hp and y lb-ft needs to be validated in market place.

Let the vehicle prove itself in the general market (not mahindra tractor owners and indian expats), and then we'll see.
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Old 31st December 2007, 14:26   #73
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Harbir,

Going by conventional wisdom, the scorpio will bomb in the US.

But , the scorpio dealer in Geogia was on the next street as my client, and there was a lot of interest from people who were into farming.
For example a client AVP of mine has a farm and owns a mahindra tractor - swears by it. He was very happy to hear that mahindra was bringing out a diesel compact pickup, coz the breed doesnot exist there.

It is people like these that Mahindra is targetting, and I believe they will buy.

Vijay
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Old 31st December 2007, 22:05   #74
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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
(not mahindra tractor owners and indian expats), and then we'll see.
I'm sorry, but I dont see desis in the US going beyond the usual Toyota, Honda and the occasional Nissan.

This vehicle could do very well with the guys who have bought mahindra tractors for the past ten years though. Apparently there are many who swear by them. Who knows, maybe the Scorpio will even attain cult status like the International-Harvester Scout one day?
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Old 2nd January 2008, 23:37   #75
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I am reminded of the Top Gear review of the CityRover, aka Tata Indica. They refused to give Top Gear a unit to review but they got one from a dealer. The judgement: "the Worst Car ever driven on Top Gear". The engine was appreciated for being powerful and criticized for being crappy regardless of its power.

People expecting Mahindra to be welcomed with open arms are not going to pleasantly surprised
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