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Old 19th March 2008, 01:31   #46
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Maybe you did not read the post above.Go through it.



Already gone through it,from where did you think i got my CR quote 7 post prior to this,it was from that website.



Yeah it doesn't have to.Mercedes cars are much better than the 98 ML, you agree or not.
The ML may have been a tiny bit worse then the average, but the average for MB is horribly bad to begin with. I have been to the dealership too many times to be comfortable with, and guess who is checking in their car in line in front of me and behind me.. The entire MB range of cars.. All of them. I know technicians that work at dealerships and they are overbooked with issues on all the cars.

There is no need to try and convince, the world is seeing what is going on, and those who want the MB star will always buy them and pay the costs. The others who do not need to prove anything will buy quality.
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:32   #47
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Ok forget others blaming CR,why did CR retract its Child Seat study?
The answer to that is in the link you posted. They are an honest company who can take new information constructively and work with it.
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:35   #48
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slandering CR is very imp to prove my point,because your statement that "current Mercedes cars are the worst ever" is based on their survey and your time with the 98 ML,both of which are inconclusive to prove your statement.
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:40   #49
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The answer to that is in the link you posted. They are an honest company who can take new information constructively and work with it.
Please,It was not a constructive criticism,they outsourced their work and it was flawed.You can't be certain about other things.

As for what the world is seeing,they are seeing this
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sadly you don't,because you bought a Lexus.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 19th March 2008 at 01:40. Reason: GOD! spellings
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:44   #50
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slandering CR is very imp to prove my point,because your statement that "current Mercedes cars are the worst ever" is based on their survey and your time with the 98 ML,both of which are inconclusive to prove your statement.

If CR data is inconclusive, then what information should be used to compare vehicle reliability?

My information is more comprehensive then that. I read everything, I listen to everyone, and I have a lot of personal experience with the world of cars. You may want to read about what I do for a living. On top of performance cars, we repair Euro cars in my garage daily and the MB, Audi, VW, BMW's are cash cows. They consistently have the largest amount of electrical, and mechanical issues of any car we see.

Without a combination of all types of information, I wouldn't talk down any car company. I have more exposure to cars then most people, thus I feel very strongly when I see all data pointing to the same conclusion.
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:46   #51
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Please,It was not a constructive criticism,they outsourced their work and it was flawed.You can't be certain about other things.

As for what the world is seeing,they are seeing this
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sadly you don't,because you bought a Lexus.
Sales numbers do not prove reliability, it only proves strong branding/marketing, as well as good looks and nice driving feel.

And I do not own a Lexus.
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:50   #52
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If CR data is inconclusive, then what information should be used to compare vehicle reliability?

My information is more comprehensive then that. I read everything, I listen to everyone, and I have a lot of personal experience with the world of cars. You may want to read about what I do for a living. On top of performance cars, we repair Euro cars in my garage daily and the MB, Audi, VW, BMW's are cash cows. They consistently have the largest amount of electrical, and mechanical issues of any car we see.

Without a combination of all types of information, I wouldn't talk down any car company. I have more exposure to cars then most people, thus I feel very strongly when I see all data pointing to the same conclusion.
This was your statement.
Quote:
Completely incorrect, they quality is worse then ever.


How does what you have said justify it ?

I'm saying that the quality is improving and you are saying its at the worst.The JD power report i posted satisfies my point that Mercedes cars are improving fast and that Mercedes is serious about quality.Now prove yours with a creditable,reliable and current source of information.

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Sales numbers do not prove reliability, it only proves strong branding/marketing, as well as good looks and nice driving feel.

And I do not own a Lexus.
They do prove that, people are happy with the cars and are ready to buy them.Not many will buy the worst cars ever,certainly not over the previous year when the models have remained the same.Mercedes doesn't need new marketing strategies,everyone who buys them knows what they are.

ok,not a Lexus,definitely something Japanese.

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Old 19th March 2008, 01:57   #53
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Ok, we'll continue this tomorrow.Its 2.00 am and i need to sleep.
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Old 19th March 2008, 02:23   #54
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Any Merc within the time frame of 95 to 05 are known to be troublesome. Which also includes the 98 ML (ML was highly acknowledged as one poor car, which displayed the MB logo but was very much built in America). However, your experiences might not mirror with someone who got his car after 2005.

Although cars 2006 onwards have not yet passed the 4-5 year mark to be able to safely say that the long term reliability has improved. However, a few acquaintances who have these cars were the ones saying that the cars are much better in terms of problems.

As far as Consumer Report goes, we know how to treat them, given the commercial outlook, the whole nation has on everything it does.

I use my own senses, judgement and family/acquaintance influence to base every purchase.

As far as your preference lies in relying on the CR, you are welcome. Even after CR giving such a report, we see so many new Mercs on the road. Looks like this CR has so broad a reader base that people still buy something that they recomended as being worse. You have said that to be marketing, well hasn't CR done the negative marketing to offset that advantage.

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Old 19th March 2008, 02:23   #55
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
This was your statement.


How does what you have said justify it ?

I'm saying that the quality is improving and you are saying its at the worst.The JD power report i posted satisfies my point that Mercedes cars are improving fast and that Mercedes is serious about quality.Now prove yours with a creditable,reliable and current source of information.



They do prove that, people are happy with the cars and are ready to buy them.Not many will buy the worst cars ever,certainly not over the previous year when the models have remained the same.Mercedes doesn't need new marketing strategies,everyone who buys them knows what they are.

ok,not a Lexus,definitely something Japanese.
I go back to my point, my personal experience: working on them, being the person people come to when their cars have issues, reading articles in every publication I can find, and then Consumer Reports, etc.. they are all legitimate sources of information, and the unlimited amount of customers needing repair is solid data showing me the reliability of MB(and all Euro's).

My statement was based on CR. That is solid info if you ask me. JD only proves that their "initial quality" is up. That proves nothing about reliability. If you can us JD Powers as a "creditable,reliable and current source of information.", then Consumer Reports is equally credible. So regardless of my personal experience, that is enough data. What makes JD more credible/reliable? Nothing.

It(sales) proves that people want the prestige and always will. There is no doubting the prestige value and the allure of the MB brand. Like I have said, I would buy one(performance model) if it didn't need to go to the dealer to get fixed. Not to mention most car buyers are uninformed buyers. They just know what the general stigma is of any car makes, and that is good enough for them. If you ask people about MB, they say oh they make the best cars on earth. Why is that? Marketing, and their history pre 1990's. They used to be solid, they are not anymore.
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Old 19th March 2008, 02:27   #56
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Originally Posted by HPP View Post
I go back to my point, my personal experience: working on them, being the person people come to when their cars have issues, reading articles in every publication I can find, and then Consumer Reports, etc.. they are all legitimate sources of information, and the unlimited amount of customers needing repair is solid data showing me the reliability of MB(and all Euro's).

My statement was based on CR. That is solid info if you ask me. JD only proves that their "initial quality" is up. That proves nothing about reliability. If you can us JD Powers as a "creditable,reliable and current source of information.", then Consumer Reports is equally credible. So regardless of my personal experience, that is enough data. What makes JD more credible/reliable? Nothing.

It(sales) proves that people want the prestige and always will. There is no doubting the prestige value and the allure of the MB brand. Like I have said, I would buy one(performance model) if it didn't need to go to the dealer to get fixed. Not to mention most car buyers are uninformed buyers. They just know what the general stigma is of any car makes, and that is good enough for them. If you ask people about MB, they say oh they make the best cars on earth. Why is that? Marketing, and their history pre 1990's. They used to be solid, they are not anymore.
You are generally speaking of cars built between 95 and 05. How many post 06 cars have come to you for repairs?
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Old 19th March 2008, 02:28   #57
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Any Merc within the time frame of 95 to 05 are known to be troublesome. Which also includes the 98 ML (ML was highly acknowledged as one poor car, which displayed the MB logo but was very much built in America). However, your experiences might not mirror with someone who got his car after 2005.

Although cars 2006 onwards have not yet passed the 4-5 year mark to be able to safely say that the long term reliability has improved. However, a few acquaintances who have these cars were the ones saying that the cars are much better in terms of problems.

As far as Consumer Report goes, we know how to treat them, given the commercial outlook, the whole nation has on everything it does.

I use my own senses, judgement and family/acquaintance influence to base every purchase.

As far as your preference lies in relying on the CR, you are welcome. Even after CR giving such a report, we see so many new Mercs on the road. Looks like this CR has so broad a reader base that people still buy something that they recomended as being worse. You have said that to be marketing, well hasn't CR done the negative marketing to offset that advantage.
No, only a small fraction of people read CR. Most people I know who buy MB or any Euro never consult CR(or any consumer rating service) as a consumer resource. They just know they want an MB, or an Audi, or a BMW. That is enough for them, and they know they want that brand or car. The reality sets in later when they are at the dealer all too often. I have consulted many people on this exact subject. Then they disregard because the want to buy one of those cars is soo strong. Every single time this has happened, the buyer has "buyers remorse" down the line. They all end up at the dealer, and spending a lot of $ out of pocket.
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Old 19th March 2008, 02:31   #58
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You are generally speaking of cars built between 95 and 05. How many post 06 cars have come to you for repairs?
Give it a little time and they will be plentiful I assure you. Right now they are all under warranty so they do not need to go anywhere else but the dealer.. Everyone knows that. Once they get past the years or mileage of the warranty, they will flood in. Thats the way of this market.

Believe me, I have nothing personal against MB or any Euro brand. Personally I like what they do, I just wish they were reliable. Once they are, I will start to purchase them.
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Old 19th March 2008, 02:38   #59
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Every single time this has happened, the buyer has "buyers remorse" down the line. They all end up at the dealer, and spending a lot of $ out of pocket.
I have seen quite a few driveways having New Mercs alongside older ones. If they had "remorse" wouldn't have seen the newer candidates alongside the ones that made them remorseful.

However admit that there have been quite a few fiasco's like the wiring harnesses, etc. But then,remember Mercs are used as Taxi's in most parts of Europe for their durability. That market complained most about the 95-05 cars. If they did not get back the reliability, that huge customer base they have would take a hit. Dad, had been to Denmark a few days back and was also told this by two different cab drivers that the new cars were much better, although the 95-05 cars weren't exactly the sort of nightmare they are made out to be.

However this thread is about the C class review. We can start a separate thread on Mercedes reliability.

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Old 19th March 2008, 02:46   #60
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I have seen quite a few driveways having New Mercs alongside older ones. If they had "remorse" wouldn't have seen the newer candidates alongside the ones that made them remorseful.

However admit that there have been quite a few fiasco's like the wiring harnesses, etc. But then,remember Mercs are used as Taxi's in most parts of Europe for their durability. That market complained most about the 95-05 cars. If they did not get back the reliability, that huge customer base they have would take a hit. Dad, had been to Denmark a few days back and was also told this by two different cab drivers that the new cars were much better, although the 95-05 cars weren't exactly the sort of nightmare they are made out to be.

However this thread is about the C class review. We can start a separate thread on Mercedes reliability.
I have plenty of friends and family who continue to buy MB and other Euro's(for the last 30 years), and others have sworn to never buy again. They just deal with, but acknowledge the issues. So they will also have driveways like you mention.

In Denmark, MB is not a prestige car it is a working class(taxi) car, the Volvo brand is highly regarded there. My brother lived there during a law school exchange program.
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