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Old 20th May 2008, 17:49   #16
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I drove a Nissan Altima Hybrid from SFO to LA and back, all in all a 800 mile trip.
It gave me around 31-32mpg combined. I was ripping on the highway.
Similar driving in a non hybrid dodge avenger(which actually has a smaller engine) gave 22-24mpg on the SFO-Vegas trip.
In city driving with lots of traffic bottlenecs the hybrid was delivering 35mpg.
So there is a benefit, but is it enough to offset the initial cost? Well thats doubtful.
So if you are doing a rental and hybrid costs slightly more, go for the hybrid.
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Old 20th May 2008, 17:53   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival View Post
erm.. The article was originally published by the UK based Auto Express mag. ET had nothing to do with it except quoting it.
If anyone wants to read it, here it is.

The Clean Machines? | Car Group Tests | Car Reviews | Auto Express
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Old 20th May 2008, 18:06   #18
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
Ok, So the Co2 emissions for hybrids more than what is being claimed but is it higher than the Co2 emissions of non-hybrid models? If not, then the hybrid vehicles are greener compared to the regular petrol vehicles.
While there is no doubt about need of greener cars, I am not sure about hybrid being always greener than non-hybrid. I just glanced at the actual CO2 emission for Hybrid cars (not reported) and it is comparable (read higher as well) with equally powerful petrol engines.

e.g. Same website gives stats about group test involving hatchbacks (Grade Punto, Clio, Mazda 2). They are smaller cars compared to hybrids, but engines are equally or more powerful. Their emission/km is actually lesser than actual emission of similarly powered hybrid engines.

Sources:

Renault Clio vs Fiat Grande Punto vs Mazda 2 | Car Group Tests | Car Reviews | Auto Express

The Clean Machines? | Car Group Tests | Car Reviews | Auto Express
Of course, the fuel economy is better for hybrid cars.

Last edited by RX135 : 20th May 2008 at 18:07.
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Old 22nd May 2008, 21:50   #19
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As I have said time and again, if you want better fuel economy, go with a diesel.
The VW 1.9TDi in the Golf gives 61 mpg (real world ~46-48 mpg) on highways and 46 mpg in the city (~35 mpg in real world).

And it's cheaper and much better to drive and look at than the ugly Prius. So here ya go.

Another link further supporting my claim.
VW Golf/VW Rabbit TDI Review, Long Term Road Test, Biodiesel Information
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Old 23rd May 2008, 03:16   #20
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How about this: Last week Toyota announced that they sold their one millionth Prius.

Diesel vs Hybrid. This a typical European sentiment. The truth is that Hybrids and diesels save fuel in different ways and the ultimate gas sipper will be a diesel hybrid.
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Old 23rd May 2008, 03:43   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
The VW 1.9TDi in the Golf gives 61 mpg (real world ~46-48 mpg) on highways and 46 mpg in the city (~35 mpg in real world).

And it's cheaper and much better to drive and look at than the ugly Prius. So here ya go.

Another link further supporting my claim.
VW Golf/VW Rabbit TDI Review, Long Term Road Test, Biodiesel Information
In US, Diesel costs more than Petrol, so people who buy hybrids to save money won't lean towards Diesel. Besides, Diesel power trains can only get you so much in terms of FE. It will eventually plateau, but the FE of hybrid on the other hand will only keep increasing as time goes by. The basic IC engine design has its design limitations in the form of fuel required to run it. Its size hasn't changed much in over 100 years, yes the hp/cubic inch has gone up considerably, but still we do not have 100 gm IC engines. The nano turbines being created in research labs still have a long way to go before they can power cars.

Fuel cells and batteries on the other hand have come a long way since they were invented. This is the future of technology: Petrol/Hybrid -> Petrol/Diesel hybrids -> Electric/Fuel cell vehicles. With the available technology it may seem like Diesel gives same FE as hybrids but wait another 5 years and we will have hybrids beat Diesels easily.
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Old 23rd May 2008, 21:44   #22
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
How about this: Last week Toyota announced that they sold their one millionth Prius.

Diesel vs Hybrid. This a typical European sentiment. The truth is that Hybrids and diesels save fuel in different ways and the ultimate gas sipper will be a diesel hybrid.

You are right, but I'm not sure if any manufacturer is into Diesel/Hybrid R&D either. Heard a news that Honda is coming out with new Hybrid cars to beat Prius in Jan 2009. Honda claims that it'll be more fuel efficient. I shopped around for Prius last year but the dealers are too head strong about Prius, its like take it at MSRP or leave it. I test drove the Prius and its too slow and pickup is horrible after me owning all 6 cylinders till now.
Well If pure electric cars are in production I'll got for it. The one I'm in love with is the TESLA which is already being sold in California, believe it or not, it beats a Ferrari 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, 100% electric and goes more than 200 miles on a single charge, I guess it would be perfect for city driving or office commute since you can charge it overnight and take off in the morning. Oh I forgot, it has killer looks!!
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Old 2nd June 2008, 15:26   #23
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What is the fuss all about? With hybrid, the intention is not just to lower the emissions, but also to rely on a newer source of power. The technology being in it's infancy, definitely would have many downs, just like gasoline had. Right now, the claims might be misleading, or the power inadequate, but improvements would gradually happen. This is the future, and a lasting solution.

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Old 2nd June 2008, 15:32   #24
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Hybrids are better than non-hybrids for any fuel. They are still not that old and are better in efficiency and pollution. So why are they bad ? the cost will decrease with increasing volumes and better tech. It will lead into plug-in electric hybrids (which has started happening). So its just the way forward.
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Old 4th June 2008, 00:05   #25
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
In US, Diesel costs more than Petrol, so people who buy hybrids to save money won't lean towards Diesel. Besides, Diesel power trains can only get you so much in terms of FE. It will eventually plateau, but the FE of hybrid on the other hand will only keep increasing as time goes by. The basic IC engine design has its design limitations in the form of fuel required to run it. Its size hasn't changed much in over 100 years, yes the hp/cubic inch has gone up considerably, but still we do not have 100 gm IC engines. The nano turbines being created in research labs still have a long way to go before they can power cars.

Fuel cells and batteries on the other hand have come a long way since they were invented. This is the future of technology: Petrol/Hybrid -> Petrol/Diesel hybrids -> Electric/Fuel cell vehicles. With the available technology it may seem like Diesel gives same FE as hybrids but wait another 5 years and we will have hybrids beat Diesels easily.
Contrary to the popular misconception, clean diesel technology has only evolved successfully in the last 10-20 years. Before the late 1980's a majority of the diesel engines were IDI (indirect injection) and low sulphur diesel was not available everywhere and hence the diesel engines could not be used to their full potential. And keep in mind that the hybrid technology in the Prius is over 10 years old.
I think the Tata Indica's diesel engine (non-Dicor) is still based on a 50 year old technology (IDI and glow plugs).

Anyway, if the sale of diesel vehicles picks up in North America, diesel fuel prices will also go down.

And there is only so much you can do with a hybrid. If you want more dependence on the electric motor, you have to feed it separately (plug-in hybrids). And that is not clean. (How is electricity produced in the generating stations?)
According to me, hybrids are just an intermediate phase in the search for a better fuel/technology. And they are awfully inefficient since they use 2 motors (gasoline + electric) to run, which is a waste since you only need one of them.
Also if the whole of North America switches to electric cars, imagine how much pollution it will cost since we still use fossil/nuclear fuels to produce electricity.

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Old 4th June 2008, 00:35   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
Also if the whole of North America switches to electric cars, imagine how much pollution it will cost since we still use fossil/nuclear fuels to produce electricity.
At little OT here, but Nuclear is the best source of energy we have today.
I would not call Nuclear reactors "Polluting".
Infact burning coal produces a lot of radioactive waste.
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Old 25th June 2008, 20:31   #27
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dear all, As you all guys are talking about the co2 emissions from a hybrid car, i would like to enlighten certain things about the hybrid car. Hybrid cars generally uses large amount of alluminium. Now when an automobile company calculates the amount of co2 emmisions. it is done by the total co2 released from the time of smelting of the metal to the entire life of the vehicle. So even though hybrid cars has a much lower co2 emissions, production of alluminium results in a large amount of co2 emision. Making a hybrid more polluting vehicle than our normal vehicle.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
Ok, So the Co2 emissions for hybrids more than what is being claimed but is it higher than the Co2 emissions of non-hybrid models? If not, then the hybrid vehicles are greener compared to the regular petrol vehicles. Besides you get better fuel economy, what exactly is the complaint here?

I understand that we pay more money for the car, so we aren't really saving any money. This is true, but the premium we are paying and the interest we are showing gives the auto manufacturers an indication that there is money to be made in green cars and hence there will be more R&D in that direction. This will result in better cars for the future, not necessarily now.
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Old 25th June 2008, 21:06   #28
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As demonstarted on the latest episode of Top Gear, an M3 is more economical than a Prius!! :
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Old 25th June 2008, 22:08   #29
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
As demonstarted on the latest episode of Top Gear, an M3 is more economical than a Prius!! :
Yes but a Prius(or any other hybrid) is not meant to be driven on track. It works best in stop and go traffic. Above a certain speed(45km or so I think, not sure), it switches to gas motor. And on a track I am sure it was way faster than 45kmph, so the electric motor wasn't doing anything and it was the petrol motor all the way. And also the BMW was behind the Prius throughout the 'race', so it had less drag and hence more fuel consumption. So the test of Top Gear is kinda biased. But ofcourse as JC mentioned, its not what you drive, but how you drive that matters.
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Old 25th June 2008, 23:31   #30
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First of all, what are we trying to gain from Hybrids :

1) Higher Fuel Efficiency
2) Lower emessions
3 ) Both 1 & 2 ?

Lets consider this: A Hybrid car emits more CO2 then what is claimed. But then does the normal car emit more CO2 than what is claimed ?

In case of city driving, hybrids do present a lot of advantage. More than only diesel or only petrol vehicle. Here it achieves both 1 & 2.

In case of highway driving, its more common sense than figures that a hybrid would lose the lead. Here I think it may have advantage in 2 but not in 1. A 1.5 asked to carry mass of batteries that are of no use now will result into lower effeciency than a modern diesel.

The best is diesel hybrid. This will be coming from Peugeot in 308. But till now, if used for what it is designed for, hybrids are greener than normal car.


Read this:
ABG talks to the Civic Hybrid owner suing Honda over low mileage - Autoblog

It was wrong use of hybrid that resulted in unhappy mileage. Well I cant ask dad to give me Baleno keys and take it for offroading. I know it will fail. But in case of high speed cruising, it will be excellent. So here comparing the BMW diesel with Pruis is a joke IMO.
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