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Old 22nd February 2005, 13:11   #16
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Originally Posted by Edmund
Even though I Love the Ferrari brand name and their cars......i'd rather hav a Nissan Skyline GTR34 or a top of the line Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII or A Toyota Supra........
Recollect the one scene in "The Fast and the Furious" where the Black Ferrari 360 Spyder Pulls up to Paul Walker and Vin Diesel in the Supra....and the Ferrari guy insults Walker...Diesel tells walker to floor it...........will love to do something like that!!!

dude i think the black ferrari in fast and the furious was the 355 f1 (correct me if i am wrong)
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Old 22nd February 2005, 13:32   #17
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dude i think the black ferrari in fast and the furious was the 355 f1 (correct me if i am wrong)
Yes dude it was indeed a 355

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Old 23rd February 2005, 12:23   #18
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I don't hate Ferrari's but at the same time, they're not that special to me. I don't mind owning a Ferrari (provided it's gifted) but if given a choice, i wouldn't buy one.

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Old 23rd February 2005, 13:24   #19
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu
I don't hate Ferrari's but at the same time, they're not that special to me. I don't mind owning a Ferrari (provided it's gifted) but if given a choice, i wouldn't buy one.

Shan2nu
This is the closest thing to describing my love/hate for Ferrari's. As a company I don't mind them, ( they do make really amazing driving machines) but its the fan following that I simply can't stand. The fan-boys (as called on various sites for people who love anything if it has the badge of an MB, BMW, Ferrari etc. on it) make it soo irritating that they won't even accept that a car is ugly (ala 612 S) just cause it has the prancing horse on it. Agreed that each company has their own set of them, but form what I've seen, read and met with, Ferrari fans really are the worst bunch of them.

P.S. - The Ferrari fans is in regard to fan-boys and not sensible fans like most of the ones in here
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Old 23rd February 2005, 13:26   #20
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Originally Posted by Edmund
Even though I Love the Ferrari brand name and their cars......i'd rather hav a Nissan Skyline GTR34 or a top of the line Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII or A Toyota Supra........
Recollect the one scene in "The Fast and the Furious" where the Black Ferrari 360 Spyder Pulls up to Paul Walker and Vin Diesel in the Supra....and the Ferrari guy insults Walker...Diesel tells walker to floor it...........will love to do something like that!!!
Although, I don't exactly love Ferrari's but IMO I would rather go for a stock, classic, elegant car, than some r1ced up kitted up Japanese car. But in the end to each his own.
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Old 23rd February 2005, 13:29   #21
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Also, you should always remember, how much ever you mod your car to get 1000 bhp+ or even something like 650+, your never going to get any competent tires, gearox, stiffened chassis, to actually amount to anything useful. And any of the Supras, skylines etc. can't compare to the simple exuberance which the underpowered yet amazing handlers that the BMW's, Mercedes's, Audi's, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's and Aston's are.
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Old 23rd February 2005, 14:02   #22
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Originally Posted by GrimReaper
Also, you should always remember, how much ever you mod your car to get 1000 bhp+ or even something like 650+, your never going to get any competent tires, gearox, stiffened chassis, to actually amount to anything useful. And any of the Supras, skylines etc. can't compare to the simple exuberance which the underpowered yet amazing handlers that the BMW's, Mercedes's, Audi's, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's and Aston's are.
Well look at Bugatti - long way to go to accomodate the 1000 bhp engine
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Old 23rd February 2005, 15:38   #23
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Originally Posted by ported_head
How do you prove that Ferrari is nothing but a fancy name?

They did build the F50 and the ENZO, after the F40, which is nothing short of ground breaking.

The olden day Ferraris such as the 250 GTO, the 288 GTO, the 333SP, the TR250, were all fantastic racing cars, which have many an event wins to their names. This doesnt mean, that the new age Ferraris are badly engineered cars, they are still machines which can hold their own around a track, or the concours. True, different people take to different brands. I, for example, am a Porsche fanatic. I could give you quite a few instances where the Porsche cars perform better than the Ferraris or quite a few other marques for that matter. The Porsche cars aren't quite the bang on the drag strip, but even the humble Boxster can hold it's own with much more expensive machinery around a race track. Though, the 355 still looks quite a bit better than quite a few Porsche cars. I still think that the sound of a 355 with Tubis, gives bliss a new meaning.

Some companies might compromise looks for performance, some compromise performance for looks. Either ways they all give us dope to drool at, and to dream about, every single day of our lives.

Does it really matter?
I did not say that I hate Ferrari or that the new ones are badly engineered. The new Ferraris are - well - o.k...but as put in TOP GEAR, will not age well. The F40 n F50 have th same design...the 360 MODENA, F430, n 612 Scaglietti have essentially the same design, and all of them (including the F60...or the ENZO) have the same funda, F1 technology in drive. O.k. the F40 started it, but then the same trash continued...paddleshift gears, same suspension settings, similar body designs... and so much more is esentially the same.Ferrari nver ventured into of-roading like the LAMBO, and in 1963 itself, Lamborghini had a much more advanced V12 engine than Ferrari's sohc engines. The Testa Rossa was an answer to the Countach, the F50 to the Diablo, the Enzo to the Murcielago and the Merc SLR, the F430 to the Lambo Gallardo...n so much more...Now u know why I say Ferrari now lacks creativity, and does not age well with the same body!
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Old 23rd February 2005, 20:00   #24
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Cool A Fact

the owner of ferrari.....


always has only one thing to say......


which i find very true.......


NOTE: "every ferrari owner is not complusory a ferrari driver"


Any1 Agree????
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Old 23rd February 2005, 22:18   #25
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Originally Posted by turbo_v12
I did not say that I hate Ferrari or that the new ones are badly engineered. The new Ferraris are - well - o.k...but as put in TOP GEAR, will not age well. The F40 n F50 have th same design...the 360 MODENA, F430, n 612 Scaglietti have essentially the same design, and all of them (including the F60...or the ENZO) have the same funda, F1 technology in drive. O.k. the F40 started it, but then the same trash continued...paddleshift gears, same suspension settings, similar body designs... and so much more is esentially the same.Ferrari nver ventured into of-roading like the LAMBO, and in 1963 itself, Lamborghini had a much more advanced V12 engine than Ferrari's sohc engines. The Testa Rossa was an answer to the Countach, the F50 to the Diablo, the Enzo to the Murcielago and the Merc SLR, the F430 to the Lambo Gallardo...n so much more...Now u know why I say Ferrari now lacks creativity, and does not age well with the same body!

What about Murci and Gallardo they have similar design. Common man wont be able to distinguish between them.
And coming to technology, well all these years everyone was using that ... Ferrari is just trying to give you an experience of an F1 car .... because its not possible for everyone to get a ride in F1 car.
Do you have any other idea other than using paddleshifts then free to say man.
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Old 25th February 2005, 13:32   #26
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Originally Posted by turbo_v12
I did not say that I hate Ferrari or that the new ones are badly engineered. The new Ferraris are - well - o.k...but as put in TOP GEAR, will not age well. The F40 n F50 have th same design...the 360 MODENA, F430, n 612 Scaglietti have essentially the same design, and all of them (including the F60...or the ENZO) have the same funda, F1 technology in drive. O.k. the F40 started it, but then the same trash continued...paddleshift gears, same suspension settings, similar body designs... and so much more is esentially the same.Ferrari nver ventured into of-roading like the LAMBO, and in 1963 itself, Lamborghini had a much more advanced V12 engine than Ferrari's sohc engines. The Testa Rossa was an answer to the Countach, the F50 to the Diablo, the Enzo to the Murcielago and the Merc SLR, the F430 to the Lambo Gallardo...n so much more...Now u know why I say Ferrari now lacks creativity, and does not age well with the same body!
1. What will age well or not age well is subjective. Just because TOP GEAR says so, does not make it the truth.

2. The F430 is an evolution of the 360 for sure, but you've missed by a mile if you think the 612 has the same design as either of those cars. Did you say the F40 and F50 had the same design? Man, either you see things I don't or you're just mouthing-off without using your head! Have you ever seen a 612 personally? I used to think it was butt ugly the first time I saw a photo, but having seen one, the look is actually growing on me (so much for not aging well...)

Secondly, every single car manufacturer that ever had a successful model EVOLVES the next version from the previous one and doesn't just throw everything away. So to say that they are stagnating because of that shows a remarkable lack of what makes a business successful.

3. Which Ferraris have the same suspension settings you talk about? Do you even know what comprises a modern sports car's suspension?

4. The F40 had virtually no F1 technology in it, except perhaps the body construction knowledge. Even the newer supercars like the Enzo don't really have much in common with F1. The company certainly gets added mileage because of their successful F1 team, but there is very little similarity between most F1 technology and even the highest end sports cars. For instance, the engines are totally different. Likewise with the drive train (sure there are paddle-shift gear selectors, but that's where the similarity ends).

5. "The same trash continued". OK, let me ask you which car manufacturer comes up with a major new driving interface every so often? Does your car change gears when you mentally tell it to or something? What would you like them to do, re-invent the wheel every few years?

6. So what if Ferrari never ventured into off roading? Is there some special need for them to do that? They make sports cars for the road. How many people do you think go "off roading" and how often? The vast majority of SUV owners never go off road, let alone sports car owners. And since you're going on about Lamborghini, since you seem enamored at their venture into off-roading, where's their off-road team now?

7. Until very recently (the intro of the Gallardo) Lamborghini only had one model in production at a time. I suppose you think that made great business sense? Sure they had an off-roader that sold in infinitesmally small numbers, mostly to rich Sheiks in the Middle East in the 80's and early 90's, but that didn't really contribute much to their profits did it? Now they have a big super car, and a littler super car, and the company is faring much better thanks to their new-found sales (because of the smaller, cheaper Gallardo).

Lastly, I like Ferraris. I like Lamborghinis and Porsches and lots of other cars. I like having a good debate. For God's sake, talk sense.
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Old 25th February 2005, 13:34   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat
When I signed up for the Ferrari 360 course in Thruxton UK
What's the track at Thruxton like? Is it very tight and windey or are there any decent length straights?
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Old 25th February 2005, 13:47   #28
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Originally Posted by kbk_75
What's the track at Thruxton like? Is it very tight and windey or are there any decent length straights?
Combination of both - tight but fast
http://www.thruxtonracing.co.uk/about.html
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Old 28th February 2005, 15:32   #29
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Originally Posted by kbk_75
1. What will age well or not age well is subjective. Just because TOP GEAR says so, does not make it the truth.

2. The F430 is an evolution of the 360 for sure, but you've missed by a mile if you think the 612 has the same design as either of those cars. Did you say the F40 and F50 had the same design? Man, either you see things I don't or you're just mouthing-off without using your head! Have you ever seen a 612 personally? I used to think it was butt ugly the first time I saw a photo, but having seen one, the look is actually growing on me (so much for not aging well...)

Secondly, every single car manufacturer that ever had a successful model EVOLVES the next version from the previous one and doesn't just throw everything away. So to say that they are stagnating because of that shows a remarkable lack of what makes a business successful.

3. Which Ferraris have the same suspension settings you talk about? Do you even know what comprises a modern sports car's suspension?

4. The F40 had virtually no F1 technology in it, except perhaps the body construction knowledge. Even the newer supercars like the Enzo don't really have much in common with F1. The company certainly gets added mileage because of their successful F1 team, but there is very little similarity between most F1 technology and even the highest end sports cars. For instance, the engines are totally different. Likewise with the drive train (sure there are paddle-shift gear selectors, but that's where the similarity ends).

5. "The same trash continued". OK, let me ask you which car manufacturer comes up with a major new driving interface every so often? Does your car change gears when you mentally tell it to or something? What would you like them to do, re-invent the wheel every few years?

6. So what if Ferrari never ventured into off roading? Is there some special need for them to do that? They make sports cars for the road. How many people do you think go "off roading" and how often? The vast majority of SUV owners never go off road, let alone sports car owners. And since you're going on about Lamborghini, since you seem enamored at their venture into off-roading, where's their off-road team now?

7. Until very recently (the intro of the Gallardo) Lamborghini only had one model in production at a time. I suppose you think that made great business sense? Sure they had an off-roader that sold in infinitesmally small numbers, mostly to rich Sheiks in the Middle East in the 80's and early 90's, but that didn't really contribute much to their profits did it? Now they have a big super car, and a littler super car, and the company is faring much better thanks to their new-found sales (because of the smaller, cheaper Gallardo).

Lastly, I like Ferraris. I like Lamborghinis and Porsches and lots of other cars. I like having a good debate. For God's sake, talk sense.
Dude u wanna talk sense...we will.
1. U don't think that the F40 and the F50 had the same body design? Did the F40 not have the lights of the 355 and the F50 the lights of the 360 Modena?

2. U say every car "Evolves" from another one? Does that mean that everything in the car has to be "Inspired" by an ex-car? Does the F430 not look like the 360, and not have the F60ish lights? Does paddleshift in every car make it innovative? (F1 style)? If Ferraris start applying the extra comforts most supercars use in their cars, even Ferrari's perfromance would suck. It's just a name that you, along with a million others are driven by.

3. How do Ferraris not have much in common with F1? Apart from the body, wasn't weight reduction a part of the Ferrari F40? Now u will say even that's a part of body construction."Branding race-derived technology to road cars is not a new idea, especially to Ferrari. Up until the late fifties, Ferrari's road and racing cars were practically the same product."-these are words of a magazine, and u are the only wise-1 to believe Ferrari has nothing common with racing? Is Traction control not a part of F1 and the F60 and the F430. Doesn't the red rev-limiter in the F430 remind you of Michael Schuuuuuuuumaker's car?

4. I may not have seen a "FERRARI 612" personally, but then your reviews mean that u are the ultimate car reviewer and test-driver in the world. Each and every Ferrari is just road-focussed, just track perfromance sort-of. That's what I mean by similar suspension settings n I guess now I need to learn from the great 1 (u) what suspensions actually mean, just because you have driven a Ferrari.

5. I was not referring to business in here at all. I was just talking about the models of cars built. I know Lambos built models far in between, but if u think manufacturing "NON_RACING" supercars is that easy, why don't utry settting a business up of one yourself?

6. The Ferrari Testa Rossa was an answer to the Lambo Countach, the F50 to the Diablo, the F60 to the Murcielago and the Merc SLR McLaren and the F430 to the Gallardo. I know I have said this before, but am saying it again for auto-gurus like you. Not only Top-GEAR, a lot of my friends agree with me when I say that Ferrari wont age well. Dude, these guys simply have benchmarks set that they are trying to exceed rather than standing in the market as something new to have taken the world by storm.

7. Even with ur 6 litre 652 bhp, the Ferrari F60 never got the better of the 628 bhp McLaren F1 in top speed, even though they both used carbon-fibre bodies and Ferrari's technology was leaps and bounds ahead of 1992. The Mac had carbon fibre mounted around a honeycomb mesh, while the F60 had it mounted on a carbon-fibre tub. Still you know who is victorious.

6. All Ferrari basically is is the sign of that horse and a name. I've met hundreds of people like you who think I am dumb and that Ferrari's are the best in the world and have left them quiet.

If you really wanna pick on me, we'll have a good chat sometime. The web is still not the best substitute for voice.

CHEERS.

Last edited by turbo_v12 : 28th February 2005 at 15:47.
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Old 28th February 2005, 16:32   #30
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Originally Posted by turbo_v12
Dude u wanna talk sense...we will.
1. U don't think that the F40 and the F50 had the same body design? Did the F40 not have the lights of the 355 and the F50 the lights of the 360 Modena?

2. U say every car "Evolves" from another one? Does that mean that everything in the car has to be "Inspired" by an ex-car? Does the F430 not look like the 360, and not have the F60ish lights? Does paddleshift in every car make it innovative? (F1 style)? If Ferraris start applying the extra comforts most supercars use in their cars, even Ferrari's perfromance would suck. It's just a name that you, along with a million others are driven by.

3. How do Ferraris not have much in common with F1? Apart from the body, wasn't weight reduction a part of the Ferrari F40? Now u will say even that's a part of body construction."Branding race-derived technology to road cars is not a new idea, especially to Ferrari. Up until the late fifties, Ferrari's road and racing cars were practically the same product."-these are words of a magazine, and u are the only wise-1 to believe Ferrari has nothing common with racing? Is Traction control not a part of F1 and the F60 and the F430. Doesn't the red rev-limiter in the F430 remind you of Michael Schuuuuuuuumaker's car?

4. I may not have seen a "FERRARI 612" personally, but then your reviews mean that u are the ultimate car reviewer and test-driver in the world. Each and every Ferrari is just road-focussed, just track perfromance sort-of. That's what I mean by similar suspension settings n I guess now I need to learn from the great 1 (u) what suspensions actually mean, just because you have driven a Ferrari.

5. I was not referring to business in here at all. I was just talking about the models of cars built. I know Lambos built models far in between, but if u think manufacturing "NON_RACING" supercars is that easy, why don't utry settting a business up of one yourself?

6. The Ferrari Testa Rossa was an answer to the Lambo Countach, the F50 to the Diablo, the F60 to the Murcielago and the Merc SLR McLaren and the F430 to the Gallardo. I know I have said this before, but am saying it again for auto-gurus like you. Not only Top-GEAR, a lot of my friends agree with me when I say that Ferrari wont age well. Dude, these guys simply have benchmarks set that they are trying to exceed rather than standing in the market as something new to have taken the world by storm.

7. Even with ur 6 litre 652 bhp, the Ferrari F60 never got the better of the 628 bhp McLaren F1 in top speed, even though they both used carbon-fibre bodies and Ferrari's technology was leaps and bounds ahead of 1992. The Mac had carbon fibre mounted around a honeycomb mesh, while the F60 had it mounted on a carbon-fibre tub. Still you know who is victorious.

6. All Ferrari basically is is the sign of that horse and a name. I've met hundreds of people like you who think I am dumb and that Ferrari's are the best in the world and have left them quiet.

If you really wanna pick on me, we'll have a good chat sometime. The web is still not the best substitute for voice.

CHEERS.
OK, here's what I think:

1. Body design is an altogether different thing from the style of a car's tail-lights, so no, I do not think the F40 and F50 had the same body design.

2. I didn't say EVERY car evolves from another. Chill out and read what I said before you fly off the deep end. Like I asked you in my earlier message, how often do you think car manufacturers come out with totally new (innovative, as you put it) interfaces? The better part of Ferrari's line-up now uses paddle-shifters (either standard or optional) because they've found that it's a quicker way to change gears for most normal road users, as compared to an H-gate gear shifter. I'm sure you'd like to see the wheel being re-invented. Go ahead and show me some companies that do that as often as you'd like. I'm not driven by anything about Ferrari or any other super-car manufacturer (I drive a Ford), but I am driven to point out drivel when it's uttered!

3. Oh we're talking about the 1950s now. Your earlier post was talking about the late 80's onwards and Ferrari's stagnation since the F40. Make up your mind, which era are we discussing? Frankly, weight reduction, traction control and lights to indicate rising revs really aren't what F1 is about, in case you thought those were the core F1 technologies. I could point out that all of those are also on rally cars, does that mean that Ferrari's cars are rally-inspired?

4. I didn't say I'd driven a 612. Like I said earlier, take the time to read (and understand, if possible) before you mouth-off. I never posted any reviews, as I recall. And obviously Ferrari's are sports cars so every part of their componentry will be biased towards sporty handling, performance, etc. I didn't realise that's what you meant by "same suspension settings". Should have guessed!
Since you seem to love Lamborghini, perhaps you can educate us all on the "different suspension settings" between Lamborghini's current models!

5. I don't recall saying anything about making non-sports cars an easy business! Are you able to read and understand, or is mouthing-off your speciality?

6. Let's give you some perspective, since you seem so certain which cars were a response to what. There was a great Ferrari in the early 80's that would've cracked any Countach at the time. That was the 288 GTO, go read about it. As I recall the F40 would've run circles around the Diablo (which was desperately overweight, and too big to be a truly useful sportscar). As regards the Gallardo, it was Lamborghini's smart move to try and capture some market share (and desperately needed sales) from smaller, high-performance cars like the 360 Modena and Porsche 911 Turbo, not the other way around. The "F60" as you call it, isn't a response to the Murcielago, it's the continuation of a line of supercars that Ferrari has done for some time now. I'm glad your friends agree with your POV on how well cars age. It's nice to have people that share your views on things around you. Just remember, it's still subjective. Lastly, it's a little difficult to "take things by storm" as you put it, unless you re-invent the wheel, which you seem certain that Lamborghini does. Actually it's ironic...I know of another company that's been trying desperately to "take the world by storm" with a certain 1000ps hypercar for some years now, which shares a parent company with Lamborghini. Pity they've discovered the problems attached to trying to "take the world by storm" and have repeatedly publicly tripped-up in testing and repeatedly missed their own deadlines. Tsk.

7. So? Top speed is all that matters right? Good for you! I don't suppose you've heard of the aerodynamic instability the McLaren F1 faced at speeds over 200mph that made it feel light and dangerous to drive? Also the F1 that set the speed record was modified, not stock. But anyway, you be happy with your thoughts, ok!

8 (or is it 6? lol). You're welcome to your ranting opinion, which I still don't agree with, sorry. So you've met hundreds of people who think you're dumb! Wonder why?!!! I never said Ferraris were the best cars in the world, and you're not silencing me till you learn to talk sense.

Lastly, I'm not trying to "pick on you", you seem to have a chip on your shoulder, which is unfortunate.

Is Ferrari really "THAT Good"? Yes, they are. There are others that are "THAT Good" too. Just because there's one good car manufacturer doesn't mean they are the only one. Ever thought of that?

Peace!
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