Quality woes for Mercedes

[theMAG]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Come to what?i did not get it.

Lowered quality, of course - as is the main topic of the thread. Before any irrelevant tangents come up, 2 people I know - 1 friend and 1 relative have an E-class ; one a W124 E-class imported in 1992 and the other a 2003 E-class prchased in India.

The 1992 model still looks like its good for the next 2 generations of my acquaintance; and the newer 2003 model looks delicate and advanced enough to blow up - like the space shuttles.

[merve_extreme]

yes during the years 1998-2004,most Mercedes cars suffered from quality problems due to cost cutting by then CEO,Jurgen Schremp.especially the electronics and the sub-standard plastics,but starting with the w221 s-class,the w164 M-class and the face lifted E-class all Mercedes cars are returning to their legendary standard.

in fact the new S-class is reckoned as one of the best build Mercedes ever,the material quality as well as the reliability side,the new M-class had some issues with the 7-speed gearbox in 2005 models(now resolved),but no problems build quality wise.

[rubin2006]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

you should blame the government for this and not Mercedes or any other car manufacturer.

and whatever the price there is always passion(ok atleast 90% of the times) involved with Mercedes.

Buddy its simple maths can you explain how can i blame the government when excise is 24 % and when our guy who assembles mercedes in pune takes home only 8 dollars a day where as to there white boys in america and canada they pay 160 dollars every day plus benifitss which are more that they yearly pay of our poor fella then to the sales guy here they give a salary of 25000 -35000 where as the white fell rakes 4-6 thousand usd every month other than excise the taxes are 1.5 lacks on C class now pls explain if c class is for 14 lacks there with all those expenses and you add to it 4-5 lacks of excise duty how will you justify the price differene of 12 lacks it should not be more than 18 lacks

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by rubin2006

Buddy its simple maths can you explain how can i blame the government when excise is 24 % and when our guy who assembles mercedes in pune takes home only 8 dollars a day where as to there white boys in america and canada they pay 160 dollars every day plus benifitss which are more that they yearly pay of our poor fella then to the sales guy here they give a salary of 25000 -35000 where as the white fell rakes 4-6 thousand usd every month other than excise the taxes are 1.5 lacks on C class now pls explain if c class is for 14 lacks there with all those expenses and you add to it 4-5 lacks of excise duty how will you justify the price differene of 12 lacks it should not be more than 18 lacks

24%? I think you forgot customs duty, sales tax etc., etc.,
Do you know that for a car completly built in India, around 50% of its value is due to taxes. i.e. a 4 lakh car will sell for 2 lakh if govt did not charge taxes.
For imported vehicles(CKD, SKD, CBU) the figure is much higher in the order mentioned.

[Nikhilb2008]

And dont compare what the people here earn compared to there....

Abroad, everything is expensive...... By Rupee standards, the Indian people are paid decently enough (I assume).....

[rubin2006]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

24%? I think you forgot customs duty, sales tax etc., etc.,
Do you know that for a car completly built in India, around 50% of its value is due to taxes. i.e. a 4 lakh car will sell for 2 lakh if govt did not charge taxes.
For imported vehicles(CKD, SKD, CBU) the figure is much higher in the order mentioned.

Yes sir 14 lacks car 7 well it not actullay 7 but around 4.5 but even if you say seven then also where is a maths tell me why is it not 19-20 and 28 are you telling me we have 150 % duties on c Class nothing justifies this price and how come Bmw Which will just assemble the cars here and not manufacture like mercedes are talking about prices of around 25 lacks if you people like mercedes i also like it but that will not mean that if i am robbed i will just say it a class of a vehicle so you can rob me if any one knows a lot kindly do a break up of duties and tell me i am impoter of computer parts have lived in 4-5 different countries An MBA in foreign Trade its not i am talking in the air they only way to prove that 28 lack prices is justified we have to have 150 % duty so either accept that taxes are 150 % or accept of being robbed and kinly do to government sites and you will find that duty and excise component of all cars made in india is not more than 40 % in any case i dont want to offend any body but if you like a cars dont talk kiddish about duties like if some body has A job of reparing or fixing cars to earn there bread and butter i have earn my bread and butter through these duties only so i guess i know a little bit more then the fast car tuners

[rubin2006]

And one more thing dont we have any taxes in canada if not 40 % like india then also its for 14 % plus tax 7 province 7 Central = 14 plus other duties in manufacturing and still c CLass for 32 K (14 lacks inr or less) and then discount like dont pay single emi till 2009 may be you guys can ask some body who works for Mercedes that they charge you cause indian customer has no option yet in that segement and secondly BMW is a better machine altogether but the age group of buyers is such that they prefer Merc cause when they had age they didnt have the money for Beemer and when they had the money they already turned uncle

[Guess?]

rubin2006: How can you compare the price to something which hasn't been disclosed yet? I'm quite sure that the BMW will be equal to the Mercedes pricing if not slightly lower.

Also please check the facts. A C200K in the UK Incl. VAT is 25,500 GBP with similar equipment levels to the one available in India. So even if you remove the
VAT it comes to around 20,600 GBP. Plus 50% duty on SKD. = 30900.
When converted 30,900 * 80 (I believe its higher) = 24,72,00 which is very close to the ex-showroom price of the C200K. The rest is added on by octroi registration insurance. The ex-showroom Pune is mentioned as 26,94,264/-. So the difference going to MB India is about 2 lakhs which is quite a premium but then isn't every company there to make money? Plus you do get discounts on cars from MB India close to 1 lk.

[v1p3r]

Rubin. This (.) is a fullstop. Very useful.

[rubin2006]

Originally Posted by Guess?

rubin2006: How can you compare the price to something which hasn't been disclosed yet? I'm quite sure that the BMW will be equal to the Mercedes pricing if not slightly lower.

Also please check the facts. A C200K in the UK Incl. VAT is 25,500 GBP with similar equipment levels to the one available in India. So even if you remove the
VAT it comes to around 20,600 GBP. Plus 50% duty on SKD. = 30900.
When converted 30,900 * 80 (I believe its higher) = 24,72,00 which is very close to the ex-showroom price of the C200K. The rest is added on by octroi registration insurance. The ex-showroom Pune is mentioned as 26,94,264/-. So the difference going to MB India is about 2 lakhs which is quite a premium but then isn't every company there to make money? Plus you do get discounts on cars from MB India close to 1 lk.

Sir politely i am very sorry but i am not talking about UK i am Talking about canada and america and yes Uk is expensive cause of different resons
(MSRP starting at $31,400 source merced benz canada) please check it and please see what i am writing before giving any suggestions and mind you sir its not C 200 K C230 a more power full model available at a more cheaper price i am holing a canadian PR so i know what are the prices in My country and i am an indian by birth so i know what is the difference of pricing in india and canada and Usa

And this for Usa Mercedes-Benz, Home of Mercedes-Benz Luxury Automobiles

30425 Usd and the car has many features which indian C Class does not have And one more thing if any body is looking for a more expensive C class then he can probably try Pakistan or african countries where duty is more and then tell me its more expensive there

[Guess?]

Originally Posted by rubin2006

Sir politely i am very sorry but i am not talking about UK i am Talking about canada and america and yes Uk is expensive cause of different resons
(MSRP starting at $31,400 source merced benz canada) please check it and please see what i am writing before giving any suggestions and mind you sir its not C 200 K C230 a more power full model available at a more cheaper price i am holing a canadian PR so i know what are the prices in My country and i am an indian by birth so i know what is the difference of pricing in india and canada and Usa

And this for Usa Mercedes-Benz, Home of Mercedes-Benz Luxury Automobiles

30425 Usd and the car has many features which indian C Class does not have And one more thing if any body is looking for a more expensive C class then he can probably try Pakistan or african countries where duty is more and then tell me its more expensive there

You are completely right in mentioning the American and Canadian prices BUT it is not right to do so since Indian prices can only be comparitive to UK prices. It's a known fact that Northern America has the cheapest prices when talking of cars. BUT all german car manufacturers add a premium of about 2000 euros for RHD versions of their cars. I know this since checking the options list for the M5.
Also, just because the USA is cheapest doesn't mean we can compare the prices to them. ALL of the cars are incredibly cheap over there and have amazing levels of standard equipment, but that is only pertaining to them. The rest of the world still has to check a lot of options to get the fully loaded status. I mean even looking at the engines: in the US the 'base' S Class is the S550. While in the rest of the world its the S350. (USA S550L = $86,000 odd , UK S500L = 73815 GBP = $144,000). Again those are with the US version having a lot of standard stuff.
As to the last line, I am NOT trying to prove that MB India is a saint and providing cheaper cars etc. I am just trying to show that there isn't as bad of a premium as you would think. By comparing it to South Asian countries, I don't prove anything since pricing would most definitely be similar.


ADD: I am not sure about this or any hard facts BUT wouldn't a company be able to make a product cheaper in a country due to volumes sold? USA is the biggest market in the world today for premium cars. Wouldn't that realistically bring down costs of advertising, logistics etc. that would be quite a lot in niche markets like India with the volumes in just the low 2000's?

[GTO]

ADD: I am not sure about this or any hard facts BUT wouldn't a company be able to make a product cheaper in a country due to volumes sold? USA is the biggest market in the world today for premium cars. Wouldn't that realistically bring down costs of advertising, logistics etc. that would be quite a lot in niche markets like India with the volumes in just the low 2000's?

True. You cant compare the pricing of a 6 figure market with a 4 figure market.

[rubin2006]

Guess sir i dont want to explain any futer about pricing polies cause i feel it not worth telling it to people who dont want to understand it but its the last time i am trying Points by Points if some people are not able to understand this please Forgive me and forget this topic

1. Real estate prices in London - Suppose you open a car showroom with 5000 SFT Of Area like MERCES BENZ the cost of 1 sQuare feet of space is
RS 114000 so so u need 57 crore just for the show room space in london

1) Here mercedes oprates with a small travel ageny like space show room which is not more than 2 crores in connaught place (delhi) and i am sure that at other places also in india mecr Dealers does not have to spend the same amount as in london

I am sure you must be aware one expects to have a margin in a product according to investments So its obviously that london dealer deserves a better payout then in delhi ( and this make car expensive in london) but no its still the same price as in delhi or we can say its expensive in delhi
The better margins are deserved by a dealer in london according to his investments But here in india Dealer get a same margin as dealer in london due to the fact that he knows that the company is robbing the indian people so he should also get the the share of the Booty.

2.The salary of a person is inbuilt in the product Pls dont suggest that salries are different at different place cause that is a very dumb answer which i was not expecting from any body above the age if 12 even if the salaries are different Merceds Benz pays more 8 Times more to sales people in UK and prices the cars 2 lacks less then india. Can you tell me Why Mcdonalld charges you 4 pounds for burger and a coke in london
and 60 rs which is less then 1 pound for the same burger and coke in india.Because its cheap to produce a burger in india taxes are same but Labour is cheap then london Retail space is again 1/10 The prices of london

3 transportation and handling Costs - If you dont know To transport a car in Europe costs about 6 Times the Costs in India Like if you pay 16000 To get a C CLass From Pune Pimpri To Delhi IT will Cost You 80000 In Europe ( still the car is 2 lacks Cheper in London )

4 We pay 24 % excise and if you think there is any other duty on a car manufactured in india then you should always know what ever customs duty you pay you get excise draw backs on It (now if some body dosnt know what excise pay back is then please excuse me ) for any parts that you import to make the car you get a rebate in excise

The total Taxes On car Like C Class In india are 24 % excise and 4 % tax and regestration and Octroi This comes to 36 % tax of the value of the car so Merces Benz Keeps a Price Tag Of car to 20 lacks and after duties it comes to 28 Lacks Where as in other markets after paying 14+6 =20 % tax they re selling the same car for 14 lacks

Now Honda Accord is manufactured in india which retails at $24250 which is available here for a premimm of 4.5 lacks in india so a mercedes which costs 31000 should be availabe for 6-7 lacks more in india but now it is 12-14 lacks expensive Can any body explain to me Why honda accord is not for 20 lacks and 15 if you mercedes logic is Fine Every thing is same ITS the Same Indian Government For a Merc And accord And Same taxes Or is there a difference

Its the matter Of time We indians have Paid The premimums For Even a lambertta Scooter And Foregin car Manufacturers Know this and they will always Charge what ever they can And mercedes is in a positon it has No competetior manufacturing a car here so what ever 102 % import duty govt Puts on other cars they charge us here even after maufacturing there cars in our country with all the facilites like cheap land and cheap labour that they get from here

one more thing I would Like to ask To learned friends That Audi Evenafter Paying Duty Of 102 + 10 % is able to match mercedes Pricing And You re balmming the goverment If merc is expensive After paying 40 % duty and its ok then HATS OF Guys People are really very intelligent I Bow on My knees And salute you For the Calcultion Skills you have

I wish that merc increases the price of new C Class to above 30 and Lacks bracket It will be the pricing we people deserve and it it fair on there part to sell the same car in other parts of the world for 15 lacks and pay more to the dealers 2 times to the labour 5 times who makes the car
To the sales guy 5 times and still sell it halh the prices cause the know we indians without know anything will blame our government and compare the prices with london which is worlds most expensive city and we are not even in top 50 s

[rubin2006]

Originally Posted by GTO

True. You cant compare the pricing of a 6 figure market with a 4 figure market.

How come honda is able to give less prices with low volumes in india i know its not less then what in Us but they re not 112 % extra the re 40 % extra so all i am trying to say is that merc should charge a permium but not 110 % but say 40 % like honda . C-Class Sell no where near Honda accord in Us Still honda has Priced it close To A right price

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by rubin2006

Guess sir i dont want to explain any futer about pricing polies cause i feel it not worth telling it to people who dont want to understand it but its the last time i am trying Points by Points if some people are not able to understand this please Forgive me and forget this topic

your point is valid to a small degree, mercedes charges a premium, but its not as much as you think.

1. Real estate prices in London - Suppose you open a car showroom with 5000 SFT Of Area like MERCES BENZ the cost of 1 sQuare feet of space is
RS 114000 so so u need 57 crore just for the show room space in london

1) Here mercedes oprates with a small travel ageny like space show room which is not more than 2 crores in connaught place (delhi) and i am sure that at other places also in india mecr Dealers does not have to spend the same amount as in london

I am sure you must be aware one expects to have a margin in a product according to investments So its obviously that london dealer deserves a better payout then in delhi ( and this make car expensive in london) but no its still the same price as in delhi or we can say its expensive in delhi
The better margins are deserved by a dealer in london according to his investments But here in india Dealer get a same margin as dealer in london due to the fact that he knows that the company is robbing the indian people so he should also get the the share of the Booty.

2.The salary of a person is inbuilt in the product Pls dont suggest that salries are different at different place cause that is a very dumb answer which i was not expecting from any body above the age if 12 even if the salaries are different Merceds Benz pays more 8 Times more to sales people in UK and prices the cars 2 lacks less then india. Can you tell me Why Mcdonalld charges you 4 pounds for burger and a coke in london
and 60 rs which is less then 1 pound for the same burger and coke in india.Because its cheap to produce a burger in india taxes are same but Labour is cheap then london Retail space is again 1/10 The prices of london

3 transportation and handling Costs - If you dont know To transport a car in Europe costs about 6 Times the Costs in India Like if you pay 16000 To get a C CLass From Pune Pimpri To Delhi IT will Cost You 80000 In Europe ( still the car is 2 lacks Cheper in London )

4 We pay 24 % excise and if you think there is any other duty on a car manufactured in india then you should always know what ever customs duty you pay you get excise draw backs on It (now if some body dosnt know what excise pay back is then please excuse me ) for any parts that you import to make the car you get a rebate in excise

You are not getting the point. total duty (excise+customs) etc., on a car which is brought in as a knocked down kit comes to approximately 70% + road tax etc.,

The total Taxes On car Like C Class In india are 24 % excise and 4 % tax and regestration and Octroi This comes to 36 % tax of the value of the car so Merces Benz Keeps a Price Tag Of car to 20 lacks and after duties it comes to 28 Lacks Where as in other markets after paying 14+6 =20 % tax they re selling the same car for 14 lacks

See my above point. If we had same duty structure as the US, mercedes would sell at a slight premium over the US price. As I mentioned earlier, a car which is completely built in India will cost 50% if the duties were not there.
For example, a tata indica costs 4.5L on road. That comes to around 10,000$ For that price you get a Chevrolet Aveo!
A similar spec car entirely made in India costs around 6.5L
A suzuki areo with Side airbags, ABS is a 155bhp sedan with boot. Cost = 7L. Similar spec car made in India will set you back by 10L

Now Honda Accord is manufactured in india which retails at $24250 which is available here for a premimm of 4.5 lacks in india so a mercedes which costs 31000 should be availabe for 6-7 lacks more in india but now it is 12-14 lacks expensive Can any body explain to me Why honda accord is not for 20 lacks and 15 if you mercedes logic is Fine Every thing is same ITS the Same Indian Government For a Merc And accord And Same taxes Or is there a difference

Honda has higher volumes than merc, and also local content is more in honda, thats why lower duty
Honda accord(new one) will retail at around 18L on road. Thats now 4-5L premium.

Mercedes may be charging a little extra, but its not as much as you are making it out to be.