Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th March 2005, 12:02   #16
Team-BHP Support
 
Rtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,769
Thanked: 212 Times
Default

Quote:
As for the expectations, the cars that were discussed in context were the Honda City, the Skoda Octavia and the Mondeo. By no stretch of imagination can these be compared to Beemers or Audis.
Are you saying even a Mondeo or Accord buyer would have the same expectations as a Santro buyer? I think not.

Quote:
I wouldnt call myself a die-hard supporter of any specific brand, but I hate to see a bias that is based on a perceived 'image' and not on hard facts. This is the single biggest problem with Indian automags as well - their credibility is questionable on account of this bias.
And I copy here what i mentioned earlier:
Quote:
As a car, there is not much to find fault with.
However, my point was different:
Quote:
Conversely, as an enthusiast, there is not much to get excited about either.
Quote:
Reliability and desirability are completely different things. Problems per 100 vehicles and 10 year warranties are not the stuff of dreams
This is not a perceived image, but a fact. Show me one Hyundai that is fun to drive or really appeals to an enthusiast. The Tiburon is a decent looker, but not a great drive.

finally going back to the line that started this off:
Quote:
But I still wouldn't buy one!
That's my individual choice, which was directed more at the Sonata than Hyundai in general. I am the first to say their cars are great in certain (lower) segments such as the Santro and Accent. However, when they move up the ladder, the lack of depth of their engineering shows up. This ofcourse is ever changing, but they still have some ways to go before competing with the major players.
Rtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2005, 13:45   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
normally_crazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,367
Thanked: 387 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
The Hyundai I own in India is much better in quality when compared to the Fords and Fiats that it competes with.
Thats a statement i beg to differ on !!
normally_crazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2005, 13:55   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

Quote:
The Hyundai I own in India is much better in quality when compared to the Fords and Fiats that it competes with.
That would be true only with the Santro, for the simple reason that it has no Ford and Fiat to compete with.

But if you're comparing the Accent to the Ikon and the Petra, you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Shan2nu
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2005, 14:04   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
typeOnegative's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India
Posts: 1,502
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
That would be true only with the Santro, for the simple reason that it has no Ford and Fiat to compete with.

But if you're comparing the Accent to the Ikon and the Petra, you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Shan2nu
You said it dude. And I dont think the Santro can compete with the Palio either - if we consider the Palio to be a 'small car' that is.
typeOnegative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2005, 14:49   #20
BHPian
 
Harrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38
Posts: 699
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

It would be sacrilege to think of comparing the palio with the santro. Or for that matter the accent with the petra. Fiat has only got its ASS wrong. Nothing wrong as far as the car or the safety measures are concerned.

BTW was it not the sienna and palio that first offered air bags and abs in this side of the d-segment?

Last edited by Harrie : 17th March 2005 at 14:52.
Harrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2005, 14:53   #21
BHPian
 
sridhar24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 951
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Iam quite surprised that Sonata is the most reliable car in USA, I thought it would be a Toyota or a Honda.
sridhar24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2005, 15:40   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
Are you saying even a Mondeo or Accord buyer would have the same expectations as a Santro buyer? I think not.
I dont remember saying so, and I was replying to Shan2nu's comparison. Hyundai makes a lot of cars other than the Santro, by the way. If I remember right, the Santro is made only in India right now - for all markets.


However, my point was different:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
This is not a perceived image, but a fact. Show me one Hyundai that is fun to drive or really appeals to an enthusiast. The Tiburon is a decent looker, but not a great drive.
The discussion started off with the quote that the Sonata was judged the most reliable car, not the enthusiasts choice. Nobody claimed that Hyundais are a boy racer's choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
That's my individual choice, which was directed more at the Sonata than Hyundai in general.
To quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
Fantastic job Hyundai. Pat on the back.


Agree totally.

But I still wouldn't buy one!
__________________
Rt
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2005, 15:53   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
But if you're comparing the Accent to the Ikon and the Petra, you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Shan2nu
I am comparing my humble Accent to the Ikon and the Petra, but then lets not discuss this further since your expectation from a car is based entirely on 0-60 times and I wouldnt debate that.

To sum it up:

The point here is not about Hyundai or the cars that it makes in India or competes with in India.

My posting was on behalf of all cars that are generally berated by the 'enthusiast' bunch, but are more complete vehicles despite their ability to win drag races. I am NOT suggesting that cars that do the 0-100 in less than 10 seconds are not FUN - they are fun, but how often do you get a chance to enjoy that shot of adrenalin on our roads?

If cars are only as good as their engines are fast, how would you explain the NHC's sales figures in comparison to the OHC? (yes, it went into another segment but how come that segment is now dominated by the Indigo and the NHC - both of which are disdained by the 'enthusiasts')

I think I have tried to make my point, which is not about Hyundai as a manufacturer. How you interpret it would depend on your personal inclinations.

Cheers
Steer
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2005, 23:22   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

In all the arguements and counter arguements made by Steer about how Hyundai is superior to Fiat, ford, honda etc etc. we are missing the message of this thread that Sonata turned up as the most reliable car in USA beating the biggies Honda and Toyota.
Does this mean that both Honda and Toyota are slipping up on quality?
By the way, Civic sales fell 24% in Canada in the last one year. Who gained at the expense of the Civic? Mazda 3 sales zoomed 21% in the same period. Of course, Civic sales didn't fall due to bad quality but because Mazda 3 is considered more fun to drive then the boring Civic.

Last edited by amit : 22nd March 2005 at 23:25.
amit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2005, 23:28   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit
Does this mean that both Honda and Toyota are slipping up on quality?
By the way, Civic sales fell 24% in Canada in the last one year. Who gained at the expense of the Civic? Mazda 3 sales zoomed 21% in the same period.
Hmmm, I wouldnt bet on Toyota and HOnda slipping on quality - Toyota probably invented the word quality !!!

Its more likely that this has happened because of customer perception that the same quality is now available at a lesser price.

The Koreans have a twin-pronged attack in the price front - they sell both Hyundai and Kia. I understand that the Kia Optima (better - and different - looking Sonata, basically) has also registered strong sales in the United Planet of America.

Cheers

Steer
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2005, 04:51   #26
BHPian
 
balenopower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai/Pune
Posts: 909
Thanked: 211 Times
Wink

quote:by steeroid
Its more likely that this has happened because of customer perception that the same quality is now available at a lesser price.


there is a strong point in this quote and i agree ........

quote:by HARRIE
It would be sacrilege to think of comparing the palio with the santro

mate we r not just talking about the build quality which the fiat is known for....we r also talking about the general quality hiccups that keep coming up.
and as far as wht i have heard the fiats have more of these quality niggles than any other manufacturer,thats the reason its sulking at the bottom of every quality survey taking place.......whereas hyundai is at no 2 or 3....

just my opinion dont kill me for that....

Last edited by balenopower : 23rd March 2005 at 04:55.
balenopower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2005, 07:24   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

Quote:
i have heard the fiats have more of these quality niggles than any other manufacturer,thats the reason its sulking at the bottom of every quality survey taking place.......whereas hyundai is at no 2 or 3....
Things have changed now baleno power. It's Fiat's bad fortune that it's good showing never gets acknowledged while even a small fiat problem gets hyped up badly.
In this years J.D.Power Survey CSI Palio stood second after Zen in the initial quality survey beating both Wagon R and Santro. It's reported that Palio reduced it's engine related problems by 52 points in one year. What needs to be seen is if they can repeat or better this performance next year.
amit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2005, 12:12   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit
Things have changed now baleno power. It's Fiat's bad fortune that it's good showing never gets acknowledged while even a small fiat problem gets hyped up badly.
In this years J.D.Power Survey CSI Palio stood second after Zen in the initial quality survey beating both Wagon R and Santro. It's reported that Palio reduced it's engine related problems by 52 points in one year. What needs to be seen is if they can repeat or better this performance next year.

Its called the PPS: Palio Petra Syndrome. Refer thread "Are Fiat Cars Overrated" (should read Overhyped, but nevermind). What is the logic behind waiting for a car or manufacturer to improve when you have other choices - or is there a problem with changing a mindset?

Dont reply here - go to the thread referred to above, and let this thread continue...

This thread was about Hyundai Sonata in a market where Fiat is practically non-existent - lets not drag Fiat into everything, especially when they're going nowhere.

Cheers

Steer
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2005, 23:45   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

Quote:
lets not drag Fiat into everything,
I think you need to read thru the thread. I have not brought fiat in here. There was a comment from you on fiat too steer. Stop acting like the big daddy here. I was only responding to some one's comment. As for the PPS, i think you have a HUGE accent syndrome. Just because you have a particular car you can't force the world to accept that it's the best and everybody's else's cars are pieces of JUNK. You may want comfort but someone may want performance. Whats wrong with that?
As for my comment on J.d.Power survey. I, don't force people to accept anything like you. I was trying to tell someone that he is out of touch with reality that Fiat has improved some quality issues. I never asked him to buy a Fiat.
amit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2005, 00:49   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: delhi
Posts: 384
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Guys , just wait for 1 more week as Hyundai's tucson is about to be launched and then i will ask all you guys out there(who dislikes hyundai) .

Now you will ask me how am i so sure about the Hyundai tucson's quality ....

Well , to start with, it has been awarded the best Small SUV of the year 2005 (along side with the likes of x trails and all) and people are queing up to buy not only in canada but in australia,spain and so on...... and theres a waiting going on for 3-6 months in most of the countries and i must ve read more than 500 reviews of the owners and they are just crazy,loving it like anything.

Dont believe me ??????

Check out these links :



http://www.ajac.ca/english/news/inde...tail&newsid=66


http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/hyun...box.1.Hyundai*


http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...tid=31441&pg=1


Guys , these are just 3 of those 100 (if not 100 then atleast 50) links i ve been.

Last edited by Beemer : 24th March 2005 at 00:56.
Beemer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sonata facelift w/ new interior: now called Sonata 'Transform' Ramon The Indian Car Scene 126 27th March 2009 10:21
Most reliable amongst the Big Three sujaylahiri The International Automotive Scene 15 29th August 2007 00:34
Most reliable and unreliable cars appuchan The International Automotive Scene 62 2nd June 2007 10:56
Most reliable cars msdivy The International Automotive Scene 3 29th November 2006 13:53


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:21.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks