Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th February 2009, 01:33   #16
BHPian
 
muneemmk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cochin
Posts: 809
Thanked: 17 Times
Default

It's a sad thing that a marque like Saab is going to be defunct in such a short time, the 9 series of motors were addictive to some people that i know.
muneemmk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 02:28   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Ravveendrra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,391
Thanked: 405 Times
Default Sad

Saab Auto were the iconic turbo-chargers of their day, having popularised turbo-chargers for street use.

Saab was originally an aircraft manufacturer and they famously harped on their aircraft (Saab-Viggen) to sell their cars.

Saab ruled the rallying world in the 70's, with Blomqvist behind the wheel. Saab is also credited with many innovations and new technologies particularly environment friendly moves, like CFC free Air-cons and asbestos free brakes.

Post the de-merger of the auto section from the main company, things seemed to go downhill for Saab Auto. GM bought Saab Auto in the 90's and Saabs were made in Germany and US while the old Saab factory in Sweden was used to make Cadillacs!

It is reported that Tata had evinced an interest in acquiring the company in the year 2008. One has to wait and see if Tata will persist, in the new economic situation.

I admire the Swedish minister for calling a spade a spade and refusing to reach into the tax-payers pockets to bail out the company. The Indian government has bought out and taken over sick companies for decades, with disastrous results - just look at the likes of National Textile Corporation, Cycles India Ltd., etc.

I wonder how Saab = the aviation company is doing, they make the Saab and Gripen Aircraft.
Ravveendrra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 03:01   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
ananthkamath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,194
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Let 'em die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brabus E V12 View Post
@ ImmortalZ: I agree, we should let them die. The whole system will reset itself.
Very easy for you guys to say that, isn't it? How about you come to Detroit and I'll show you around. Then you decide for yourself whether you want this happening to YOU.

If the big three go down, we'll all be looking for jobs, which means we'll probably move back to India, which means you'll have more competition. Think about that now.

Last edited by ananthkamath : 19th February 2009 at 03:02.
ananthkamath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 03:05   #19
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,034
Thanked: 1,471 Times
Default

What was GM doing all these years when Saab was reported to be constantly losing money?
theMAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 03:29   #20
BHPian
 
Brabus E V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London/NewDelhi
Posts: 388
Thanked: 28 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Very easy for you guys to say that, isn't it? How about you come to Detroit and I'll show you around. Then you decide for yourself whether you want this happening to YOU.

If the big three go down, we'll all be looking for jobs, which means we'll probably move back to India, which means you'll have more competition. Think about that now.
Sir with all due respect, there is no need to get aggressive. You need to understand that businesses work in a cycle. There is no business/company which goes on forever. It is either bought out or it closes down. And these companies have dug their own grave by churning out a majority of their cars as poorly bulit and unreliable vehicles. Add to that the previous free availability of credit which has dissapeared now.

Besides there is a very similar situation here in England as well. Its just that the big three in Detroit have already been hammered whereas here in England the automobile companies are now starting to get hammered.

I guess its different only in India where people are still more than happy to pay double the price for Imported cars than in the U.S or Europe.
Brabus E V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 03:31   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
devarshi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Tor
Posts: 3,996
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brabus E V12 View Post
Besides there is a very similar situation here in England as well. Its just that the big three in Detroit have already been hammered whereas here in England the automobile companies are now starting to get hammered.

I guess its different only in India where people are still more than happy to pay double the price for Imported cars than in the U.S or Europe.
AFAIK the British Automobile Industry era came to an end a long time ago? what british Industry are you talking about?

If GM and Chrysler collectively go down. I dont know where the world will head. Is really sad to see how a few people can impact the world.

I really like the Saab designs. Wish they werent based on GM platforms though.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 19th February 2009 at 03:32.
devarshi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 04:01   #22
BHPian
 
Dippen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 44
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
What was GM doing all these years when Saab was reported to be constantly losing money?
Hello theMAG
That is the thing everyone have been asking for the last 10 years. Saab has developed new products but Bob Lutz have been the man who has stopped that process.

thats one of the reason why Saab is stuck with only two models, the 9-5 and 9-3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brabus E V12 View Post
@ ImmortalZ: I agree, we should let them die. The whole system will reset itself.

With SAAB, I guess they will either be bought out or become the first victim of the recession to actually shut shop. The others are still managing to hang by the thread, but the future does look bleak for SAAB.

I wonder where's our SAAB fan Dippen?
Hello Barbus!

i am here but have been busy. it has been a very tough week here in Sweden as the news from GM came .

But the whole thing is turing out to be a legal mess because it costs more to actually close down SAAB and GM does not have enough capital to do that and the Congress does not want that US taxmoney should go to Saab.

Also Opel seems to be in the same position

Ok, i will try to answer as much as possible of the situation. Right now i am pretty angry on GM. They still have a responsibility due to they own the brand. They cant cut the rope to either Saab and Opel.


i do recommend (if it is ok for the moderation board) to check in to Saabs United which is a Saab-blog and they have the latest info on Saab.

i will try to keep you updated on what is happening.
Dippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 06:36   #23
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 960
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

I've always been a big fan of Saab and their vehicles (and even aircraft for that matter). According to me, they made some of the coolest and most innovative cars ever. But then again, the majority of the population doesn't think like me.

It's really sad that they are going down like this. I really hope that some Asian or European company can buy them off. I believe the only reason GM kept a white elephant like Saab for 10 years is because of their engineering capabilities. A lot of the improvement in the current breed of Chevys and Cadillacs could be attributed to their European connection I believe.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brabus E V12
As Devarshi said, UK does not have any major auto manufacturer of their own. Last time I checked, all their auto companies were bought out by American and Indian companies. I don't think any major indigenous R&D goes on in UK anymore for any of the manufacturers, other than Jaguar-Land Rover (which should be outsourced soon), it's come down to only assembly there.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 19th February 2009 at 06:40.
sujaylahiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 13:42   #24
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 11,892
Thanked: 9,728 Times
Default

The issue is that GM had no idea what to do with SAAB right from the beginning. GM tried hard to buy Jaguar but the management preferred FOrd as they were more collaborative.

GM took over SAAB and the successor to the 9-3 and 9-5 were based on the Vectra chassis which was not inspiring in the first space. All thhe original engineering etc from SAAB were thrown out
ajmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 14:23   #25
BHPian
 
Brabus E V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London/NewDelhi
Posts: 388
Thanked: 28 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippen View Post
Hello Brabus!

i am here but have been busy. it has been a very tough week here in Sweden as the news from GM came .

But the whole thing is turing out to be a legal mess because it costs more to actually close down SAAB and GM does not have enough capital to do that and the Congress does not want that US taxmoney should go to Saab.

i do recommend (if it is ok for the moderation board) to check in to Saabs United which is a Saab-blog and they have the latest info on Saab.

i will try to keep you updated on what is happening.
Thanks for the info Dippen. Just checked that link, its got loads of info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
AFAIK the British Automobile Industry era came to an end a long time ago? what british Industry are you talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
As Devarshi said, UK does not have any major auto manufacturer of their own. Last time I checked, all their auto companies were bought out by American and Indian companies. I don't think any major indigenous R&D goes on in UK anymore for any of the manufacturers, other than Jaguar-Land Rover (which should be outsourced soon), it's come down to only assembly there.
What I meant was the British Automobile market - production and sales aspects. The companies here are so desperate that they are including all kinds of freebies to entice buyers. The shifts have been reduced and the production is down month after month. And cmon guys everyone knows that the Big British Companies have all been sold - It's kiddish to even point that out.

Although if you guys check again, there still are a few companies that are still in British hands - Caterham, Ariel, Bristol, Morgan, Noble, Ascari, Westfield.

Last edited by Brabus E V12 : 19th February 2009 at 14:25.
Brabus E V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 14:29   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 356
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

many of my friends in US are SAAB fans. i have also driven them quite a few times.
one thing is if u r a SAAB owner, one will almost end up buying one more again.

after GM merger, they made the looks more GM like. but still the car was good. i actually like their hatchback looks.. it was so different.

is the SAAB airplane division different from this ?
madhukar_n is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 14:50   #27
BHPian
 
Samir Taheer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London & Pune
Posts: 392
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
As Devarshi said, UK does not have any major auto manufacturer of their own. Last time I checked, all their auto companies were bought out by American and Indian companies. I don't think any major indigenous R&D goes on in UK anymore for any of the manufacturers, other than Jaguar-Land Rover (which should be outsourced soon), it's come down to only assembly there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
AFAIK the British Automobile Industry era came to an end a long time ago? what british Industry are you talking about?

If GM and Chrysler collectively go down. I dont know where the world will head. Is really sad to see how a few people can impact the world.

I really like the Saab designs. Wish they werent based on GM platforms though.
Why should Jaguar-Land Rover be out sourced soon?? And there is alot more than assembly that goes on here!!!

There is alot of manufacutring that still happens in the UK, i work for one of these companies so i would know. With the Pound falling alot of the work that was lost to Poland, Romania, China & India is starting to come back. Its not just because of the fall in the Pound, but also because none on these places can handle quality or craftsmanship like the English. Dont get me wrong here i totally LOVE India and my hope is that one day we'll be upto the Europen standards, but its still not here. Our Indian suppliers still dont have the work ethics that exists here. Honda, Nissan and Ford all have their R&D and Design Centres here in the UK. So even though there are only a handfull of British Owned Manufactures, theres still ALOT of engineering!!!

Now that my rant is over and back to the topic - I would hate to see Saab shut. Never been a fan of the interiors but you couldnt go wrong with the car as a package.

As much as i would love to say that the big 3 deserve to shut - i agree with sentiments already stated that it would be a disaster for the economy and the number of people who would be put out of work but be crazy. But they should stop flying in their private lear jets when begging for money.
Samir Taheer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 14:55   #28
BHPian
 
Brabus E V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London/NewDelhi
Posts: 388
Thanked: 28 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhukar_n View Post
many of my friends in US are SAAB fans. i have also driven them quite a few times.
one thing is if u r a SAAB owner, one will almost end up buying one more again.

after GM merger, they made the looks more GM like. but still the car was good. i actually like their hatchback looks.. it was so different.

is the SAAB airplane division different from this ?
Yes SAAB Airplane is a different division. GM only owns SAAB's automobile operations.
Brabus E V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 15:19   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

I feel this is only the beginning of the end for small niche manufacturers, no matter how well engineered their products are or were. Saab stopped being the legendary manufacturer of superb engineer's cars the moment they became part of GM.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2009, 15:47   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
amtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai - The city of Sea Link!!!
Posts: 2,782
Thanked: 342 Times
Default Saab website down?

Is the website down as well? I tried to log on but its showing "done"

http://www.saab.com/#/
amtak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Car names - end in vowels now, used to end in consonants. Any reason? SS-Traveller Shifting gears 50 4th September 2012 17:02
High-end head phones VS High-end Speakers low_bass_makker In-Car Entertainment 43 30th July 2012 20:39
Road Trip–2700 KMs Europe & 3380 KMS UK + end-to-end. ramkya1 Travelogues 177 26th June 2010 14:54
Saab-Spyker chief wants new retro Saab 92 ac 427 The International Automotive Scene 0 9th April 2010 11:40
GM: SAAB is for sale EDIT: Koenigsegg cancels plan to buy it out Dippen The International Automotive Scene 32 27th January 2010 23:08


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:50.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks