Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th May 2005, 05:06   #61
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default

Let me throw my 2 cents in.

Power/torque is no use without traction. To get traction, you need to make it a mid engined or a rear engined car. That things got no weight on the rear tires.

Manual will make little or no difference in this case.

A manual does not suit the character of any mercedes IMO.

BTW the engine is from the Maybach.

CL65....yawn!
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 12:43   #62
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

Quote:
and see the SL 65 is not a sports car so it need not do 0-100 in 4 secs
A non sports car with supercar power? Not the smartest recipe, if you ask me.

Quote:
Power/torque is no use without traction. To get traction, you need to make it a mid engined or a rear engined car. That things got no weight on the rear tires.
Yup, it's as simple as that. You can have all that power but, you'll never be able to use even 75% of it. The only thing this car'll do well is overtake but, why would a rich sedate middle aged man need to overtake others at break neck speeds?

I can understand the Maybach 62 having all that power as it's got that much weight.

Quote:
CL65....yawn!
It all comes down to this. If you ever meet a person who owns a CL65 or a SL65, ask him why he bought it.

Quote:
p.s:read common man as man with average driving talents rather than reading it as a man with average income.
Average drivers need average power.

I ain't saying it's a bad car. It would be a pleasure to own a car knowing that you have 612bhp and 1000nm under tha hood but, provided everything works the way i want it to. I should be able to control the car and not let it control itself.

Have a A/T version but, make sure you also provide a M/T.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 20th May 2005 at 12:57.
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 13:06   #63
BHPian
 
aveek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 292
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Gosh, aren't we a big, happy family...?

Well, my take on this feud(?) is that Porsche are into making these things more specifically for a track, and are then sold as almost optional raod going cars, whereas Merc. makes them for the road, and brands them optional track cars. I'm sure that if challenged, Merc. will definitely take the stuffing outta anything that seriously gets in their way. If they really wanna build something that will eliminate competition on/off track, they will, and have - the CLK DTM is a definite example of Merc. dominance for qute a while.

PS: the McLaren F-1 does more than 194 MPH, and it wears Micchelin Pilot Precedas... so I guess those would be the tyres that can handle 200+ MPH...
aveek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 13:33   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
ported_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 2,391
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aveek
Gosh, aren't we a big, happy family...?

Well, my take on this feud(?) is that Porsche are into making these things more specifically for a track, and are then sold as almost optional raod going cars, whereas Merc. makes them for the road, and brands them optional track cars. I'm sure that if challenged, Merc. will definitely take the stuffing outta anything that seriously gets in their way. If they really wanna build something that will eliminate competition on/off track, they will, and have - the CLK DTM is a definite example of Merc. dominance for qute a while.

PS: the McLaren F-1 does more than 194 MPH, and it wears Micchelin Pilot Precedas... so I guess those would be the tyres that can handle 200+ MPH...

No Porsche do not make cars specifically for the track. They happen to make cars which perform exceptionally on the track as well. Motorsport is their brand building exercise too, and promotes their core values.

I have no doubt in Mercedes' engineering capabilities, they did invent the car, didn't they. All I ask is for them to put their money where their mouth is. If they can claim to do exceptional times on the NS, please do so and publish the times, and I will be more then happy to add it to my database.
Infact a Mercedes 190E 2.5-16 EVO II once clocked an exceptional 7:46, not bad for a car of it's vintage, don't you think.

But making claims such as "...it could have" is futile. Porsche doesn't claim to make super luxury cars, "...if they wanted to."

There are quite a few cars that belong to the 200 mph club, and yes they all have tyres, my point being, how long can they sustain 200 mph for before suffering a blowout? Without compromising ride quality or handling? Which is why Brabus thinks it's safer to limit their speeds to 194 mph, instead of killing their customers and earning bad repute. Infact Continental has come out with ContiSportContact VMax which claim to be able to sustain 224 mph.

And Merve Extreme, as far as picking BMW and Jags over Mercedes for luxury cars goes, I still prefer to compromise luxury for driving dynamics even in this segment, I never see myself sitting in the back seat being chaffeured around.

And a little excerpt our fellow Jag man, Aditya, showed me in a magazine which said that the wood Mercedes Benz uses for their cars is leftovers from after Jaguar is done with theirs. Quite stunning isn't it?
ported_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 13:37   #65
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aveek
PS: the McLaren F-1 does more than 194 MPH, and it wears Micchelin Pilot Precedas... so I guess those would be the tyres that can handle 200+ MPH...
yes they can handle 200mph+ speed or even 220mph+ speeds but not for a sustained periods like doing 200mph+ continously for over 15 mins,u'll need to slow down to let the tyres cool down and then u can go flying again

what Fulda have built is a tyre that can sustain 200mph+ speed for sustained period of time like 30-40 mins without overheating or over wearing themselves.
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 13:48   #66
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ported_head
And a little excerpt our fellow Jag man, Aditya, showed me in a magazine which said that the wood Mercedes Benz uses for their cars is leftovers from after Jaguar is done with theirs. Quite stunning isn't it?
that is most wierd thing i have ever heard.a gross overstatement

Did u know Mercedes Benz has its own forests in germany from where it sources its wood and not fron the lumpsy Jaguar and please dont say luxury cars are supposed to handle like sport saloons.what is point of Luxury then

and Shan2nu if a average rich guy does not need 600+ bhp,i'd say he does not need even 150+ bhp.on the road he is never going to go from 0-60mph in 4 secs.hell take atleast 15 secs.and he will never exeed 200kmph.
But that is not the point on the SL.it is car u can boast about on the road and not on a track.

if a porsche come alongside thinking i can whip this Merc out,hell be in for a big suprise.the 65 will leave all the porsche except maybe the UL carrera GT in its dust.This is the kick that midle adged rich guys enjoy and not doing 1.50 mins on Silverstone tracks.for that u have the 604 bhp and the 1000nm of torque "Torque to beat the the hell out of the M5's,Porsches and Corvetes when it comes to accelerating at motorway speeds".
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 13:54   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
BTW the engine is from the Maybach.
which engine are u talking here.the maybach 62 and 57 have the twin turbo 55 series engine and not the 65 series engine in the SL and Cl 65's.the Maybach Exelero has the 65 series engine with bumped output and also

all these engines are made by MERCEDES BENZ and tuned by AMG.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 20th May 2005 at 13:55.
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 14:07   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
ported_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 2,391
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
that is most wierd thing i have ever heard.a gross overstatement
I will ask fellow Jag man to post a scan. You can see for yourself. I don't really discredit stuff in print, atleast major circulations, they can be always used as proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
please dont say luxury cars are supposed to handle like sport saloons.what is point of Luxury then
That is my criteria for every car that I would buy, needn't be yours too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
and Shan2nu if a average rich guy does not need 600+ bhp,i'd say he does not need even 150+ bhp.on the road he is never going to go from 0-60mph in 4 secs.hell take atleast 15 secs.and he will never exeed 200kmph.
But that is not the point on the SL.it is car u can boast about on the road and not on a track.

if a porsche come alongside thinking i can whip this Merc out,hell be in for a big suprise.the 65 will leave all the porsche except maybe the UL carrera GT in its dust.This is the kick that midle adged rich guys enjoy and not doing 1.50 mins on Silverstone tracks.for that u have the 604 bhp and the 1000nm of torque "Torque to beat the the hell out of the M5's,Porsches and Corvetes when it comes to accelerating at motorway speeds".

Ohhh, so fat Swiss bankers only, eh? Which is why not all of us agree it's the best roadster in the world. For some of us, all that TORQUE is useless on a track with an AT and all the electronic trickery. I would personally prefer a Pagani Zonda Roadster too. I'm a sucker for Italian detailing, exquisite interiors and exteriors. All the SL interiors look too much the same, helll even the SLR's looks similar. And they look the same. And they sound the same. And they perform almost similarly too, because the electronic trickery is the same. Ohhh..which one should I buy? I know, the C12S.
ported_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 14:24   #69
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

But ported the SL is not built for u anyway u are just 20.u can have whatever criteria u want in a car.u can even have a truck that handles like a porsche but 95% of the buyers who whould buy a luxury car or an SL will have very different criteria to yours and there are many other rich people than fat swiss bankers.

and about that jaguar bit where is it written man.i'll lave to read this stuff.but assume it will be written by a diehard Jag fan.and stuff written in mags can be a expressive statement and not the truth,like JC always says when i hit the brakes of the SLR my lungs were in my mouth.can this ever happen.

and has he seen that wood from jaguar go to mercedes factory and why will they need wood from England when they have those vast Rhine forests.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 20th May 2005 at 14:30.
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 14:39   #70
Senior - BHPian
 
ported_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 2,391
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
But ported the SL is not built for u anyway u are just 20.u can have whatever criteria u want in a car.u can even have a truck that handles like a porsche but 95% of the buyers who whould buy a luxury car or an SL will have very different criteria to yours and there are many other rich people than fat swiss bankers.

and about that jaguar bit where is it written man.i'll lave to read this stuff.but assume it will be written by a diehard Jag fan.

and has he seen that wood from jaguar go to mercedes factory and why will they need wood from England when they have those vast Rhine forests.

What does being 20 have to do with anything? I have already passed puberty, and I really doubt I'm going to go through some major hormonal changes, unless I inject myself with some. So my criteria remains the same, till I end up in a grave.

Yes, but it seems that 95% of the buyers of SL suffer from major envy, as all they care about is killing M5s and Porsche's and Corvettes, right? Where does the luxury part fit in?

Lets say if a truck does handle like a Porsche, that means, it will still beat a Mercedes around the Nordschliefe right? I wouldn't mind one of those then.

I will make sure the Jag scan is posted. Don't ask me pal, I'm merely stating the facts that I have read. If you have any further issues after reading the article, feel free to contact the author.

Last edited by Dippy : 20th May 2005 at 14:43.
ported_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 14:45   #71
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

ok man about that 20 thing is that normally mercs are bought by middle adged men so i said that.nothing personal.
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 14:49   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
ported_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 2,391
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
ok man about that 20 thing is that normally mercs are bought by middle adged men so i said that.nothing personal.

No offense taken. All in good entertainment.
ported_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 14:54   #73
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

Quote:
But that is not the point on the SL.it is car u can boast about on the road and not on a track
How can you possibly boast about a 612bhp car that does 0-100 in 4.2 secs and is limited to 250kmph? What will you boast about?

And guys, try and stick to Mercedes here. Porsche has nothing to do with this thread. It doesn't matter where the wood comes from, we're talking about the power and not the goodies.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 20th May 2005 at 14:57.
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 15:37   #74
Senior - BHPian
 
islero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,574
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

I have a very strong opinion, and didnt want to express it before, but here it is, I cant keep it inside anymore.

The SL65 and CL65 are two of the most pointless cars in the world. They are mere statements of power that have been constipated by nanny electronics and high weight in a bodyshell that is obviously not suited for the power it is saddled with. Merc is losing control of its road cars and is just upping the power each time the opposition makes a dynamic step forward ( refer S55, E55 etc etc). Power isnt everything in this world, especially when it isnt being used properly, and Merc needs to learn that.


Phew.
islero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2005, 18:40   #75
Senior - BHPian
 
Revvmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,186
Thanked: 45 Times
Default

Oh boy oh boy oh boy... how could i miss this topic.

Ok my 2 cents.

Mercedes use autoboxes for their AMGs simply cuz it is extremely difficult to build manual trannys that can handle that kind of torque. Infact notice, many 500 hp+ cars from most manufacturers come with either a auto or an SMG, the few manual manufacturers do exist. Notice, cars which live on a diet of torque are more prone to have SMG/Auto boxes.

Merve, the CL65, though with obnoxious amounts of power has a few problems. It can't put the power down cleanly, lot of power is wasted and it really could do better times even with that 612 hp if it is tuned properly. But at the end of the day, with an engine that delivers between 4-10 mpg, it really guzzles gas like Saddam Hussein were its creator. Apparently, there are tuned RUF, 9ff Porsches that whip a CL65s ass raw. Watch even the new 500+hp 911 GT2s take the CL's case.

The thing with Porsches are they manage to better use the power they create. Their success at Nordescheilfe and GT racing is proof enough.

Surely Merve, you prefer a Merc for whatever reasons. People like Ported and myself prefer Porsches. Its just the way we look at things. To each his own.

Case closed.

Revv
Revvmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cj3b : Yes-no-yes !! DKG 4x4 Vehicles 151 3rd August 2010 09:59
worlds most fuel-efficient car! (VW 1-liter car) shantyrocks The International Automotive Scene 22 29th July 2010 15:38
YES! Roadster highwayblaze The International Automotive Scene 18 25th March 2008 01:27
The worlds most popular gadget? tsk1979 Gadgets, Computers & Software 14 10th March 2008 13:01
Worlds most expensive car, or the priciest junk Merc ever made tsk1979 The International Automotive Scene 33 17th October 2006 03:31


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:56.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks