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Old 26th September 2007, 20:13   #1561
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@ ram, sorry didn't know that we can't post different models/coupes from the same manufacturer. Thought there is some difference between the two.
As usual your post is marked by abundant detail. Although its complete in all respect, I would like to add some information that I stumbled upon while searching for the pictures of Type 406. I don't know how relevant or important this info will be, still -
(a) 406 was the last Bristol to use the BMW-derived pushrod straight six.
(b) Suspension -
Front: Independent; transverse leaf spring with upper wishbones and anti-roll torsion bar.
Rear: Rigid axle with lateral links, Watt linkage, torque link and longitudinal torsion bars.
(c) Only 174 were built between 1958-1961.

Ram seems you missed post number 1547 on page 104. I had asked you how you can differentiate between a Berkeley B95 and B105? I am not able to do the same and therefore I need your expert advise.
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Old 26th September 2007, 21:11   #1562
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Ok guess ID-362 Please guess the Name Year and the Model.

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Old 26th September 2007, 21:18   #1563
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Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Ok guess ID-362 Please guess the Name Year and the Model.
Thats a Borgward, but seems to be an early one...Im afraid I cant pinpoint which one.
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Old 26th September 2007, 21:20   #1564
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No its not Dickra, got you!! !!
Kripya Memberaan fir se try karien...Dhanyavad
Now i will keep mum till the right answer comes along.

Last edited by V-16 : 26th September 2007 at 21:21. Reason: add
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Old 26th September 2007, 23:03   #1565
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ID-362
i know that car..it is a white convertible...

just kidding
i have absolutely no idea
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Old 27th September 2007, 17:10   #1566
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Originally Posted by -GS- View Post
@ ram, sorry didn't know that we can't post different models/coupes from the same manufacturer. Thought there is some difference between the two.
@-GS-. Don't get me wrong. I was merely adding to the information, you had provided.
The Guess-the-car-thread is metamorphosing into a chronicle of the development of the modern automobile.
Re-posting a car that has been posted before, can add value on more than one count.
Cars do look different when viewed from different angles.
A Team-BHPian may discover new facts about a car for discussion after a respite.
However, to avoid repeating facts already covered, do spend the effort to read all that has been posted before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -GS-
Rear: Rigid axle with lateral links, Watt linkage, torque link and longitudinal torsion bars.
It would help to use a diagram to explain the terms: lateral-links, watt-linkage, panhard-rod, etc.
Many of our budding auto-buff friends may be clueless about the engineering of the automobile.
Lack of a good sketch-scanner, is a temporary handicap, else I would post my sketches to explain some of these terms as they crop up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -GS-
...had asked you how you can differentiate between a Berkeley B95 and B105? I am not able to do the same and therefore I need your expert advice.
The differentiation between a Berkeley B95 and B105 can be an interesting research project, to those who care enough about them.
Manufacturers typically have some external distinguishing artifacts when different engines, trim-levels and pricing are involved.
One can start out looking at hood dimensions, engine-compartment layout, wheel and tire sizes, badging, ...
Too many things...
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Old 27th September 2007, 21:30   #1567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post

The differentiation between a Berkeley B95 and B105 can be an interesting research project, to those who care enough about them.
Manufacturers typically have some external distinguishing artifacts when different engines, trim-levels and pricing are involved.
One can start out looking at hood dimensions, engine-compartment layout, wheel and tire sizes, badging, ...
Too many things...

Even I had no idea how to differentiate them.....shall investigate this....
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Old 27th September 2007, 22:08   #1568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
It would help to use a diagram to explain the terms: lateral-links, watt-linkage, panhard-rod, etc.
Many of our budding auto-buff friends may be clueless about the engineering of the automobile.
Lack of a good sketch-scanner, is a temporary handicap, else I would post my sketches to explain some of these terms as they crop up.
I would like to help you here since you are not able to scan and upload a sketch due to unavailability of a good sketch scanner. I have very little or no knowledge as compared to you but still I am trying to explain these terms with whatever information I could gather from the internet. Please feel free to correct me.

Lets start with Suspension itself.

Suspension -
Suspension is the term given to the system of springs, shock absorbers and linkages that connects a vehicle to its wheels. Suspension systems serve a dual purpose – contributing to the car's handling and braking for good active safety and driving pleasure, and keeping vehicle occupants comfortable and reasonably well isolated from road noise, bumps, and vibrations.

Suspension system can be broadly classified into -

(a) Dependent Suspension
(b) Independent Suspension
(c) Semi-dependent Suspension


Panhard Rod -

A Panhard rod or track bar is a component of a car suspension system that provides lateral location of the axle. Originally invented by the Panhard automobile company of France in the early twentieth century, this device has been widely used ever since.

While the purpose of the rear suspension of an automobile is to allow the wheels to move vertically with respect to the body, it is undesirable to allow them to move forward and backwards, or from side to side. It is this latter movement that the Panhard rod is designed to prevent. It is a simple device, consisting of a rigid bar running sideways in the same plane as the rear axle, connecting one end of the axle to the car body or chassis on the opposite side of the vehicle. The bar is attached on either end with pivots that permit it to swivel upwards and downwards only, so that the axle is in turn allowed to move in the vertical plane only. This does not effectively locate the axle longitudinally, therefore it is usually used in conjunction with trailing arms which locate the axle in the longitudinal direction. This arrangement is not usually used with a leaf spring rear suspension, where the springs themselves supply enough lateral rigidity, but only with coil spring suspensions.




The advantage of the Panhard rod is its simplicity. Its major disadvantage is that the axle must necessarily move in an arc, relative to the body, with the radius equal to the length of the Panhard rod. If the rod is too short, there will be excessive sideways movement between the axle and the body at the ends of the spring travel; therefore the Panhard rod is less desirable on smaller cars than larger.

Watt's Linkage -

Watt's linkage was invented by James Watt (19 January 1736 – 19 August 1819) to constrain the movement of a steam engine piston in a straight line.

The Watt's linkage is also used in the rear axle of a car suspension as an improvement over the Panhard rod, which was designed in the early twentieth century. Both methods intend to prevent relative sideway motion between the axle and body of the car. The Watt’s linkage however approximates a vertical straight line motion more closely.

It consists of two horizontal rods of equal length mounted at each side of the chassis. In between these two rods, a short vertical bar is connected. The center of this short vertical rod – the point which is constraint in a straight line motion - is mounted to the center of the axle. All pivoting points are free to rotate in a vertical plane.




In a way, the Watt’s linkage can be seen as two Panhard rods mounted opposite of each other. In Watt’s arrangement however, the opposing curved movements introduced by the pivoting Panhard rods are compensated by the short vertical rotating bar.

Torsion Bar -

A torsion bar is a solid bar of steel which is connected to the car chassis at one end, and free to move at the other end. They are almost always mounted across the car, one for each side of the suspension. The springing motion is provided by the metal bar's resistance to twisting.


Torsion bars are normally locked to the chassis and the suspension parts with splined ends. This allows them to be removed, twisted round a few splines and re-inserted, which can be used to raise or lower a car, or to compensate for the natural 'sag' of a suspension system over time. They can be connected to just about any type of suspension system listed on this page but are commonly found on trailing arm suspension.




Live Axle -

A live axle is a type of beam axle suspension system that uses the drive shafts that transmit power to the wheels to connect the wheels laterally so that they move together as a unit.
A live axle consists of a central differential in a single housing that also contains the drive shafts that connect the differential to the driven wheels. The differential is connected to the engine via a swinging propeller shaft and a universal joint. The complete assembly is suspended on coil springs or leaf springs.
Some live axles use trailing arms, semi-trailing arms, Panhard rod, or Watt's linkage to control the vertical and lateral movements of the axle. Others, particularly older vehicles, use Hotchkiss drive, in which the leaf springs provide axle location as well as suspension.
As with any beam axle, the advantages of the live axle are relative simplicity, lower manufacturing costs, lighter overall vehicle weight, and the fact that the axle and suspension systems take up little or no interior volume. Because the axle assembly is a fairly simple and rigid arrangement, it can easily be made stronger and more robust, which is an advantage for vehicles with substantial power or that are intended for rugged or off-road usage.
The principal disadvantage is the negative effect on ride quality and handling. The wheels cannot move independently in response to bumps.
__________
All the information and pics has been taken from wikipedia, car bibles, griggsracing.

Last edited by GTO : 5th September 2015 at 15:36. Reason: PM coming up
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Old 27th September 2007, 22:47   #1569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
The differentiation between a Berkeley B95 and B105 can be an interesting research project, to those who care enough about them.
Manufacturers typically have some external distinguishing artifacts when different engines, trim-levels and pricing are involved.
One can start out looking at hood dimensions, engine-compartment layout, wheel and tire sizes, badging, ...
Too many things...
We can look out for hood dimensions, engine-compartment layout, badging etc but that is when we are actually seeing the car. I wanted to know how you can differentiate between a B95 and B105 by looking at a picture.




The differences between the two with regard to the dimensions and weight according to this comparison are:
(1) Rear Track - difference 5 mm
(2) Length - difference 115 mm
(3) Kerb weight - 7 kg

Still it doesn't help me in differentiating between a B95 and B105 by looking at a picture.


I get this picture whenever I search for B95 as well as B105. Even you have used this same pic in your post.

Quote:
You're close @islero! ID:351 is a 1960 Berkeley B105.
Seems there is some way to distinguish between the two, please share it with us.
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Old 27th September 2007, 23:37   #1570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
The differentiation between a Berkeley B95 and B105 can be an interesting research project, to those who care enough about them.
Manufacturers typically have some external distinguishing artifacts when different engines, trim-levels and pricing are involved.
One can start out looking at hood dimensions, engine-compartment layout, wheel and tire sizes, badging, ...
Too many things...
Quote:
Originally Posted by -GS- View Post
We can look out for hood dimensions, engine-compartment layout, badging etc but that is when we are actually seeing the car. I wanted to know how you can differentiate between a B95 and B105 by looking at a picture.
The differences between the two with regard to the dimensions and weight according to this comparison are:
(1) Rear Track - difference 5 mm
(2) Length - difference 115 mm
(3) Kerb weight - 7 kg

Still it doesn't help me in differentiating between a B95 and B105
by looking at a picture.

I get this picture whenever I search for B95 as well as B105. Even you have used this same pic in your post.
Seems there is some way to distinguish between the two, please share it with us.
Whoops?! How did I miss this topic?
Visually there was little or no difference in the 95/105 (much as is the case in our earlier Ford Escorts and Ikons except for their engines and some minor unnoticable trim)
Heres what the difference between the Berekley 95 and 105 actually is;
The figures 95 and 105 indicate the top speed of the car in miles per hour (144/152 km/hr). The engines were Royal Enfield 692cc twins of 41 bhp @ 5500 rpm in the 95 and a more highly tuned version that gave 51 bhp @6250 rpm in the 105. Thats all.
Hope that solves the confusion
Guess they didn't have much to change in the cars as there were only 194 made and remained in production only for one year i.e. 1959 (I think)

Last edited by V-16 : 27th September 2007 at 23:39. Reason: add
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Old 27th September 2007, 23:48   #1571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Heres what the difference between the Berekley 95 and 105 actually is;
The figures 95 and 105 indicate the top speed of the car in miles per hour (144/152 km/hr). The engines were Royal Enfield 692cc twins of 41 bhp @ 5500 rpm in the 95 and a more highly tuned version that gave 51 bhp @6250 rpm in the 105. Thats all.
Gogi - Ram has already pointed out the difference in engine specifications in his earlier post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
The B95 had a 692 cc Royal Enfield Super Meteor four-stroke twin engine that put out 41 bhp @ 5500 rpm; 58 Newton-m torque @4000 rpm and pushed it to 95 mph (152 km/h).

The B105 was powered by a 692 cc Royal Enfield Constellation four-stroke Twin engine breathing through twin-carburetors. It put out 50 bhp @ 6250 rpm; 61 Newton-m torque @4000 rpm and could top out at 105 mph (168 km/h).
A total of 200 Berkeley B95 + B105 cars were made.

Ram
There were minor differences in dimensions too as I have mentioned in my last post. But what I want to know is - how can you distinguish between the two by looking at a picture?
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Old 27th September 2007, 23:52   #1572
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Sorry didn't read the whole post.
No you cant differenciate visually. they were identical excep tfor the few mm differences which is not visible to the naked eye as they are too too minute. The only difference between them was the top speed, the miniscule dimension differences and maybe some interiors or maybe an extra meter. Of course the sppedo would have different readings but form the outside except maybe the badging ( im not sure if it had any specific badging) no other visual differences.

Last edited by V-16 : 27th September 2007 at 23:54.
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Old 28th September 2007, 00:03   #1573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
ID:351.
What is this roadster?


Ram
Quote:
Originally Posted by islero View Post
ID 351: Berkeley B95? Powered by an Enfield Twin engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
You're close @islero! ID:351 is a 1960 Berkeley B105.
This is why I asked how you can visually differentiate between the two without actually seeing it in person. Moreover, when you run a search for both B95 and B105 on Google, same pic appears in both of them. So I am just confused and wanted Ram to shed some light on this.
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Old 28th September 2007, 14:02   #1574
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Guess during the search, you found the pic in the 95 section and Ram found it in the 105.
No visual identification marks as already pointed out.
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Old 29th September 2007, 18:06   #1575
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Quote:
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Ok guess ID-362 Please guess the Name Year and the Model.

As the above car has gone unrecognized for well above the stipulated time.
ID-362 is the 1956 BMW 502 with body work by the German firm Autenrieth abd Darmstadt.
The regular 502 is a very different shaped car. The 502 was in production from 1954-1955 and was the first V-8 engined sports car by BMW. Very few cabriolets were made of the 502 by the German A&D. It is not certainly known as to how many numbers of A&D BMW 502s were made as it is not certain as to how many 502s were made but it was definitely not a one off car.
It was powered with a 2580cc V-8 producing 95 bhp @4800rpm

Last edited by V-16 : 29th September 2007 at 18:08.
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