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Old 24th October 2008, 17:54   #106
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I don't see any reason why one would choose the Panamera over the Aston.
Moreover the Porsche looks like a big hatchback compared to the subtle and classy coupe like look of the Rapide.
Also, there are cheaper cars that look much better and do things just as well - Merc CLS, Maserati Q'porte, Jag XJ.
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Old 24th October 2008, 18:43   #107
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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
I don't see any reason why one would choose the Panamera over the Aston.
I'm thinking price and reliability.

Im pretty dissapointed with the rear hatch of the car, I dont know why but it reminds me of the Cayman.
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Old 24th October 2008, 18:48   #108
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Im pretty dissapointed with the rear hatch of the car, I dont know why but it reminds me of the Cayman.
I think it's the shape of the rear hatch+the tail lights.
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Old 31st October 2008, 11:47   #109
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Some Update.
Source: Porsche Panamera Interior Spied From Passenger Seat - worldcarfans

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We've got some excellent spy photos of the Porsche Panamera's interior, courtesy of Teamspeed.com. The pictures appear to have been shot from the passenger seat, and show that the four-door Porsche's got a very familiar-looking five-pod instrument panel. It also appears to have a 911-style left-hand ignition key. The center console is festooned with buttons, hinting at the high equipment levels that will no doubt be available when the Panamera enters the market against some very worthy competitors from Aston Martin, Mercedes and Maserati. During 2009, expect most Panameras to be high-content, high-profile V8 models, with the less expensive V6 coming along once Porsche's luxury-sport sedan has established itself as a worthy competitor to the Mercedes CLS and Maserati Quattroporte.
Image 1 from Worldcarfans, other from teamspeed:Panamera interior pics - TeamSpeed.com
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Old 31st October 2008, 13:08   #110
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Strange but from the second photograph, one can tell that the car is being tested in ...China - note the specific chinese market VW!

This is a bit strage as it is difficult to get a car into China and also getting a licence to drive there is another issue. Unless VW helped them, that is
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Old 31st October 2008, 14:39   #111
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Something deep inside tells me Porsche is making a mistake making cars like the Cayenne and now the Panamera. I'd have prefered to see Porsche acquire a brand and do the car instead of diluting its powerful brand.

Porsche could have acquired Land Rover if it really wanted to build SUV's. If it wants luxurious GT coupes it has Bentley through VW or better acquire Aston Martin.

Porsche should stick to the 911 and the Boxster/Cayman type of cars. That badge shouldn't be seen on anything else. Purity of purpose and design. A purists sports car company. Nothing else.

I am well aware Porsche has deep pockets and the R&D to keep on doing new stuff. But expanding the product lineup? Bad idea. What's next an MPV with the Porsche badge?

I hope I won't be around when Ferrari decides to do an SUV or an absurd sedan. Thank goodness the public ensured the Mondial died

I vaguely remember Luca Montezemolo saying something which I liked. Ferrari will not build too many cars or try to do too many models. It will lose its appeal. I agree with that logic.

Porsche has a big chunk of VW and that's really the right thing to do. Keep increasing the stake in VW. Through VW it has Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Seat, Skoda and VW to play with in terms of the full spectrum of cars to offer.

Why then a sedan? Big mistake!
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Old 31st October 2008, 14:43   #112
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Well the Cayenne has saved Porsches bacon and helped it enter emerging markets like India but only upto a point.

When it started designing the Panamera and Cayenne, my guess is that it did not have the cash to buy a company. The way car manufacturer share values are plummeting means they can now consider these options
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Old 31st October 2008, 14:49   #113
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Going into new markets, economies of scale, component sharing dynamics, cost reductions to ensure a company stays fighting fit is obviously at the top of any car company CEO's mind. Porsche can do that as part of the VW group. Meaning if the management does have an appetite to grow global and big its the VW portfolio that will give them that leverage. But messing with the Porsche brand is risky business.

You mentioned the Cayenne saved Porsche's bacon. I don't recall the company being in the red and needing a saviour. It was always rated the most profitable independent car mfg. Do correct me if I got that wrong.

Lets look at it this way. BMW could have never done a RR Phantom badged as BMW. Mercedes used a defunct brand Maybach, didn't work.
BMW did the right thing to acquire the RR name and now they are enjoying success with something that is out and out a BMW but the public is fooled into believing its the British hallmark, which it is not.

Brand sells, nothing else does. McLaren F1 is another classic story. They struggled to sell 100 cars when the F50 was sold out at 349 cars (full planned production). I see brand as everything in sales. The Porsche brand is distinct and tied in closely to all things sporty. Purist sporty. How does a SUV or a sedan fit in?

There was a huge reaction when Porsche wanted to switch to a water cooled boxer for emission control reasons. They had to convince purists the howl of the aircooled boxer would be retained. Same for the 45 year old design of the 911. People simply refused to accept a change in shape. This company has a legendary sports car and a massive fan following. Why play with that mix? And the best part is they made pots of money making just what the purists wanted.

BTW guys my love for the 911 will render me irrational so please bear with me and patiently explain to me why Porsche should do a Panamera. I'll try to understand another point of view

Last edited by DKG : 31st October 2008 at 15:03.
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Old 31st October 2008, 15:41   #114
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Quote:
You mentioned the Cayenne saved Porsche's bacon. I don't recall the company being in the red and needing a saviour. It was always rated the most profitable independent car mfg. Do correct me if I got that wrong.

From greedy shareholders who demand big increments - it was profitable but it was always vulnerable to a takeover - VW and DB had it in their sights. It Porsche did not deliver, they would have dumped the stock!

There is a limited market demand for sports cars, also an excess volume of Porsche sports cars would have depressed resale values. So how could Porsche expand its turnover ? Answer - hit on the growing trend for SUV's and also enter new markets which do not always have the proper roads for the normal sports car. The US is its biggest market so a no brainer.

I think there is an issue of the brand perception - you and I think of Porsche as a brand which provides tactile purist driving pleasure. Porsche managment think - cars with engineering excellence - sport may not be necessary. I do understand that the Cayenne is a hoot to drive..for a SUV.

It has been profitable in recent times since 1996, however, it takes time to build up reserves to buy another brand but they had enough to develop cars. The investment for the Cayenne is minimal as costs are amortised with the Toureg.

Quote:
BTW guys my love for the 911 will render me irrational so please bear with me and patiently explain to me why Porsche should do a Panamera. I'll try to understand another point of view
If we could view our crystal balls, Porsche would have developed a Bentley to do that job, however flush from the success of the Cayenne, they decided to look at the segment dominated by the Merc CLS. Again like Mercedes, they are in danger of diluting their brand value.

Now that they are on the brink of owning Bentley, they could dump the project but they lose more ! Actually the porsche 924 was a dumped audi sportscar project. Porsche took it over tweaked it and later honed it into the 944

so in summary - it has become a case of business over brand!

Ferrari are cleverer, they focus on sports cars only and attach their name to chepaer stuff like baseball hats, abu dhabi amusement parks to get more money
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Old 31st October 2008, 15:52   #115
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The V8 engined 928 was Porsche's attempt at a luxo cruiser. I'm glad that endeavour ended. My hunch is they won't be able to sell the Panamera successfully against BMW 7 series and Merc S Classes. The Audi A8 is an amazing machine. Even with that it struggles to sell against the others.

Who needs a 4 door sportscar? Any one catering to that segment? Is there a segment? Coz if its the luxury sedans they are tackling then Porsche won't be able to take on the BMW Merc duo.

I think for the Cayenne Porsche tasted success because the 959 plundered the competition in the Dakar rallies. So the world knew Porsches can be exciting offroad (although no review I've read rates the Cayenne highly, the X5 still seems to rule for the tarmac SUV's)

It will be interesting to see how the market responds to the Panamera. I am yet to understand the logic of a sports sedan

Does anyone know if Porsche Design is a significant revenue stream for the company? I would think that is a more significant arm for Porsche to develop serving as a backbone for many auto mfgs who cannot create the resources to do their own R&D.

Last edited by DKG : 31st October 2008 at 16:04.
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Old 31st October 2008, 16:32   #116
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Quote:
The V8 engined 928 was Porsche's attempt at a luxo cruiser. I'm glad that endeavour ended
I liked it a lot but it ain't as tactile as a 911

Quote:
Who needs a 4 door sportscar? Any one catering to that segment? Is there a segment? Coz if its the luxury sedans they are tackling then Porsche won't be able to take on the BMW Merc duo.
Agreed - segment is limited

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I think for the Cayenne Porsche tasted success because the 959 plundered the competition in the Dakar rallies.
I am not sure on this, the time between the 959 success and Cayenne is over a decade
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Old 31st October 2008, 16:38   #117
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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
I liked it a lot but it ain't as tactile as a 911
There's apparently a nice 928 for sale in Bombay right now I loved the gruff whoosh of its V8 Man does Porsche know how to tune its engine sounds !!

Sometime back when I was exploring the Porsche website I was really kicked to find sound tracks of the boxers being blipped. Wow a site to sell a car and they want you to listen to that flat six. That's my company!!!

I think what the 959 did for the Cayenne is the heritage in people's mind of a robust 4wd system. As you say the time diff possibly has no link between the two. I do remember what a sensation the 959 was. It still remains one of the world's most significant supercars.

Last edited by DKG : 31st October 2008 at 16:44.
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Old 31st October 2008, 16:44   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
The V8 engined 928 was Porsche's attempt at a luxo cruiser. I'm glad that endeavour ended. My hunch is they won't be able to sell the Panamera successfully against BMW 7 series and Merc S Classes. The Audi A8 is an amazing machine. Even with that it struggles to sell against the others.

Who needs a 4 door sportscar? Any one catering to that segment? Is there a segment? Coz if its the luxury sedans they are tackling then Porsche won't be able to take on the BMW Merc duo.

I think for the Cayenne Porsche tasted success because the 959 plundered the competition in the Dakar rallies. So the world knew Porsches can be exciting offroad (although no review I've read rates the Cayenne highly, the X5 still seems to rule for the tarmac SUV's)

It will be interesting to see how the market responds to the Panamera. I am yet to understand the logic of a sports sedan

Does anyone know if Porsche Design is a significant revenue stream for the company? I would think that is a more significant arm for Porsche to develop serving as a backbone for many auto mfgs who cannot create the resources to do their own R&D.
I agree completely. Anyone who needs a luxury car that seats 4 comfortably wouldn't look past BMW, Mercedes and Audi.
Porsche i think are just trying to join the 4 door bandwagon. This would highly detract from their position as an automaker catering to the driving enthusiast. The Panamera (and i'm tempted to include the Rapide) is in conspicuous territory. It will sell, albeit in miniscule numbers.
Anyone with that kind of money to blow would rather have a Cayenne, or one of the other thoroughbred sports coupes in the Porsche lineup.
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Old 31st October 2008, 16:55   #119
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Originally Posted by Nitronium View Post
The Panamera (and i'm tempted to include the Rapide) is in conspicuous territory. It will sell, albeit in miniscule numbers.
True, perhaps something for Maserati to worry about for its Quattroporte.

Do you guys remember cars like the Jag XJR (was it?) and the Bentley Turbo R type of cars? Sedans with muscle. You have the M5 from BMW and the E55 or is it E65 now from Merc? Perhaps the Panamera can at best cater to this limited segment. How many M5's does BMW sell in a year? The Panamera could very well have the M5 in its targets. Audi has the RS series too. So I suppose Porsche is heading for that pack of cars? Hmmm interesting.

Last edited by DKG : 31st October 2008 at 17:06.
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Old 31st October 2008, 18:37   #120
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The Panamera could very well have the M5 in its targets.
I don't think the M5 will be too perturbed. Are they even in the same price bracket?
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