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Old 2nd February 2010, 16:14   #16
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
This is a very subjective topic. Very few cars ever made will actually qualify as the "worst cars"

Most on that list are actually collectable now and I wonder how cars like the BMW 7 Series or the Hummer H2 have been clasified as lemons.

The description of a lemon is a car that can't do what it is designed to do so in actuality none of them were lemons.

A text book example of a "lemon" would be the Standard 2000 and the Sipani Montana.

Very few international manifacturers could afford to make such collosal blunders and indeed few did.
I agree with you that most of the cars listed are collectable. But probably when this list was drawn out by the TIME team, they must have considered factors like blunders in design, engineering, safety etc. I do-not know what most experts would think of a BMW Isseta, but at the Expo the Isseta was drawing more crowd than the other more prestigious cars on display.
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Old 2nd February 2010, 17:16   #17
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Here's another one.

This happened at Santee, CA near San Diego, CA.

California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor had given his car to the dealer for servicing. The dealer had given him a a temporary loaner 2009 Lexus ES 350. He was driving that Lexus with three of his family when the accelerator pedal got stuck in the floor mat at 192 km/h.

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Shutting off the ignition key would have locked the steering wheel, leaving him unable to steer.

When the accelerator has gotten stuck fully pressed, some drivers react by hitting the brakes multiple times. This empties the car's vacuum-based power assistance, which makes it harder to brake the heavy car after that

Lexus has an engine control button which must be held down for three seconds to shut off the engine. Most drivers don't know that. Shifting an automatic into neutral at high speed is not the most intuitive action in a panic.

His bro-in-law dialled 911 on his cellphone and was talking panic-stricken to the operator when the car crashed in a fireball past the T junction where the freeway ends.



The Lexus collided with an SUV waiting to turn left at the end of State Highway 125, careened across Mission Gorge Road, crashed through the fence and ended up in flames on the San Diego River bed killing Mark and his wife both 45, 13-year-old daughter and 38-year-old brother-in-law.


Toyota had apparently known for two years that some Lexus and Toyotas had this problem. But they only recalled 3,800,000 affected Toyota and Lexus cars after the policeman and three family members perished in this fiery high-speed crash.

Last edited by Ram : 2nd February 2010 at 17:20.
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Old 2nd February 2010, 18:44   #18
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Ram.

Isn't this ironic. The driver is a Police officer and he is driving at twice the legal speed in that area and look what happened.

Its a bit fitting in a way.

Why would anyone in their sane mind be drving at this speed on a public road, especially a ploce officer !!
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Old 2nd February 2010, 18:46   #19
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Originally Posted by john a milne View Post
I take exception to this one~

My dad purchased one second hand in 1961 and drove it for 8 years.
It had the automatic transmission using buttons on the steering column and was top of the line with a 427 c.i. V8.

Living 15 miles from Windsor Ontario and their Canadian HQ and factory, he had a friend in their engineering dept do a major tune up on it shortly before my brother & drove to Toronto to visit some friends. I t was a very fast drive and at one point we raced an Jaguar who tried to loose us. With all that high speed driving we averaged close to 30 m.p.g.

It was my fathers most favourite car!

The 1961 Amphicar was another fun car, I have a friend in Toronto that took me for a drive/cum/boat ride and let me tell you it was one of the most memorable experiences. A good restored one is currently worth around $70,000.

It would be great to post photos of them.
On the Edsel TIME has the following reasons for including it in the worst 50. I am reproducing below their comments:

That's why we're all here, right? To celebrate E Day, the date 50 years ago when Ford took one of the autodom's most hilarious pratfalls. But why? It really wasn't that bad a car. True, the car was kind of homely, fuel thirsty and too expensive, particularly at the outset of the late '50s recession. But what else? It was the first victim of Madison Avenue hyper-hype. Ford's marketing mavens had led the public to expect some plutonium-powered, pancake-making wondercar; what they got was a Mercury. Cultural critics speculated that the car was a flop because the vertical grill looked like a vagina. Maybe in the '50s was certainly phobic about the female business. How did the Edsel come to be synonymous with failure? All of the above, consolidated into an irrational groupthink and pressurized by a joyously catty media. Interestingly, it was Ford President Robert McNamara who convinced the board to bail out of the Edsel project; a decade later, it was McNamara, then Secretary of Defense, who couldn't bring himself to quit the disaster of Vietnam, even though he knew a lemon when he saw one.
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Old 2nd February 2010, 19:25   #20
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Ugliest car ever wow! i did a research on this and came across this car called AMC Pacer. People call it the pregnant roller skater! Very true. This gets my vote as the ugliest car ever made. But among Indian cars.. hmm i would have to say the Ambassador estate version. Looks ugly as sin. I would rather walk than be seen in one of those!
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Old 3rd February 2010, 05:50   #21
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When I first saw the early model Hyundai Santro in India (when it was new)
my first thought was, "Dear God: Yuck! What an ugly tall, ungainly abbreviated car".
A ride from Mumbai to Pune and back in it, added harsh discomfort to distaste.
Another ugly abomination was the Maruti WagonR

Not much has changed since then.
However (I'd say) our aesthetic sensibilities have gotten numbed.
These cars' reliability, fuel economy and convenience of parking have subdued and overwhelmed our sense of taste.

These cars are now so prolific that we now tolerate their appearance.
Some of us may even have gotten to love this pair of ugly ducklings.

Another car that is aesthetically hideous is the Maruti SX4.

But people can have pet pigs.
Can you believe it -- some people are actually charmed by the intelligence and the personality of their pet pigs. Pigs do have some negative aspects but several desirable qualities as well. They are intelligent, readily trained, affectionate, curious, playful, can be maintained clean, generally quiet, odor free and non-allergenic.
Pigs are curious and playful, but also head-strong and sensitive. They can become easily bored, and possibly destructive.

Pot Bellied Pigs

'nuff said about pigs, SX4s, WagonRs and Santros.

Ram (Just my opinion)
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Old 3rd February 2010, 10:44   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
When I first saw the early model Hyundai Santro in India (when it was new)
my first thought was, "Dear God: Yuck! What an ugly tall, ungainly abbreviated car".
A ride from Mumbai to Pune and back in it, added harsh discomfort to distaste.
Another ugly abomination was the Maruti WagonR

Not much has changed since then.
However (I'd say) our aesthetic sensibilities have gotten numbed.
These cars' reliability, fuel economy and convenience of parking have subdued and overwhelmed our sense of taste.

These cars are now so prolific that we now tolerate their appearance.
Some of us may even have gotten to love this pair of ugly ducklings.

Another car that is aesthetically hideous is the Maruti SX4.

But people can have pet pigs.
Can you believe it -- some people are actually charmed by the intelligence and the personality of their pet pigs. Pigs do have some negative aspects but several desirable qualities as well. They are intelligent, readily trained, affectionate, curious, playful, can be maintained clean, generally quiet, odor free and non-allergenic.
Pigs are curious and playful, but also head-strong and sensitive. They can become easily bored, and possibly destructive.

Pot Bellied Pigs

'nuff said about pigs, SX4s, WagonRs and Santros.

Ram (Just my opinion)
Ram,

Adding to your point (but totally away from the theme), the more good looking all Europian desined Huyndai Getz failed to impress in front of the
gawky looking siblings (elantra was another one from them).
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Old 3rd February 2010, 11:37   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Ram.

Isn't this ironic. The driver is a Police officer and he is driving at twice the legal speed in that area and look what happened.
Its a bit fitting in a way.
Why would anyone in their sane mind be driving at this speed on a public road, especially a police officer !!
Hey Wasif,
sometimes, but only sometimes, situations are not what they appear to be. Remember, the accelerator was stuck. This has also happened in my Amby. The first thing we did was to kick the accelerator, it could free itself. And then we could press the clutch, or switch of the engine. But here, when you kicked the accelerator, it remained stuck, but now the speed was higher with no chance to slow down. And most probably being an automatic, no clutch to press, and .............bang!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
When I first saw the early model Hyundai Santro in India (when it was new)
my first thought was, "Dear God: Yuck! What an ugly tall, ungainly abbreviated car".
A ride from Mumbai to Pune and back in it, added harsh discomfort to distaste.
Another ugly abomination was the Maruti WagonR

Not much has changed since then.
However (I'd say) our aesthetic sensibilities have gotten numbed.
These cars' reliability, fuel economy and convenience of parking have subdued and overwhelmed our sense of taste.

These cars are now so prolific that we now tolerate their appearance.
Some of us may even have gotten to love this pair of ugly ducklings.

Another car that is aesthetically hideous is the Maruti SX4.

But people can have pet pigs.
Can you believe it -- some people are actually charmed by the intelligence and the personality of their pet pigs. Pigs do have some negative aspects but several desirable qualities as well. They are intelligent, readily trained, affectionate, curious, playful, can be maintained clean, generally quiet, odor free and non-allergenic.
Pigs are curious and playful, but also head-strong and sensitive. They can become easily bored, and possibly destructive.

Pot Bellied Pigs

'nuff said about pigs, SX4s, WagonRs and Santros.

Ram (Just my opinion)
Now we call this Ram's Pig theory. I like that very much. And have you heard the phrase, that 'this car is a pig"?. Now I know where that came from.
In the family we just bought an SX4. Nice car, and sitting inside we do not have to look at it. It is practical, that is why we bought it, height is good, 2nd generation has a nice engine. But when you have one in front of you while driving, its ugliness and height do irritate. The Santro is practical, cheap, so it sells. But ugly, sooooo very ugly. Because of the numbers being sold in a free market, it may not make it to the worst cars list.
BTW, when the Mercedes W 124 appeared, I took quite a long time to get used to its looks.

Cheers harit
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Old 4th February 2010, 00:59   #24
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The TIMES magazine has also published a list of Dozen Cars which they call “ The Dozen Most Important Cars of All Time” . According to TIME, “There are automobiles of great beauty and great speed but only a few have been able to fundamentally change the way we live and dream". There are some contradictions, but this list of the best dozen has been drawn out by Simon Robinson for TIME. It gives me immense pleasure and a sense of pride to see the TATA NANO on the dozen most important cars of all time. The dozen cars selected by TIME are as under:
From 1908 to Present
1. Model T Ford – 1908 -1927
2.Chrysler Airflow – 1934- 1937
3. Volks Wagen Beetle – 1938-2003
4. The Ford Pick up – 1948 -2009
5. Chevrolet – 1955
6. Honda Civic -1979 – 2009
7. Toyota Corolla – 1966 -2009
8. British Motor Corporation Mini -1959 -2000
9. Plymouth Voyager – 1984 – 2000
10.The Sport Utility Vehicle – 1990’s till date
11. Toyota Prius – 1997 – 2009
12. Tata Nano - 2008
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Old 4th February 2010, 01:31   #25
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Till Two years back, I found that the fiat was the worst due to no service providers and most of the time non availability of spares. The second one was Matiz.
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Old 4th February 2010, 04:06   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
Toyota had apparently known for two years that some Lexus and Toyotas had this problem. But they only recalled 3,800,000 affected Toyota and Lexus cars after the policeman and three family members perished in this fiery high-speed crash.
I had taken a Toyota Corolla 2009 from AVIS Car Rentals for a month at Dallas. I got a call last week that i need to return the car back so that they can give me a replacement.
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Old 5th February 2010, 23:22   #27
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Originally Posted by S.B.Jatti View Post
The TIMES magazine has also published a list of Dozen Cars which they call “ The Dozen Most Important Cars of All Time” . According to TIME, “There are automobiles of great beauty and great speed but only a few have been able to fundamentally change the way we live and dream". There are some contradictions, but this list of the best dozen has been drawn out by Simon Robinson for TIME. It gives me immense pleasure and a sense of pride to see the TATA NANO on the dozen most important cars of all time. The dozen cars selected by TIME are as under:

From 1908 to Present
1. Model T Ford – 1908 -1927
2.Chrysler Airflow – 1934- 1937
3. Volks Wagen Beetle – 1938-2003
4. The Ford Pick up – 1948 -2009
5. Chevrolet – 1955
6. Honda Civic -1979 – 2009
7. Toyota Corolla – 1966 -2009
8. British Motor Corporation Mini -1959 -2000
9. Plymouth Voyager – 1984 – 2000
10.The Sport Utility Vehicle – 1990’s till date
11. Toyota Prius – 1997 – 2009

12. Tata Nano - 2008
Basically these are milestone cars. Some are recognised as such soon after launch, others are recognised after a while.
The Nano was one of the very few which was recognised as one while still fresh AND not available in the market!!
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Old 6th February 2010, 00:38   #28
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Default Lemon or not I love some of these cars....

1975 Bricklin SV1
1976 Aston Martin Lagonda
1980 Corvette 305 "California"
1980 Ferrari Mondial 8
1981 De Lorean DMC-12
1985 Mosler Consulier GTP
1986 Lamborghini LM002

Yup, I think the cars in the list above shouldnt have been in the list of 50 worst cars. These cars might not have been successful commercially but that does not mean that they are bad cars. I somehow think all of these should find a place at a collector's garage. Infact the LM002 derived out of the Cheetah looked rather different from the daily run off the mill SUV. It had a bold design and was easily distinguishable.
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Old 6th February 2010, 01:32   #29
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Re: this particular incident, the jury seems to be still divided in the US, but nevertheless it seems to have spawned the entire Toyota recall which has now extended to the Prius thereby making reluctant Mr. Toyoda to come before the press that too in the US to add insult to injury.

One thing to remember about the US is that some fools there tend to ocassionally blow things out of proportion. Remember Tiger Woods and the WMD's?

For all its worth, here are Mr. Traffic's (Kenny Morse's) top tips dated 16 Sep 2009:
  • First, try to hit the pedal to make sure nothing is forcing it down.
  • Next, PUT THE CAR IN NEUTRAL IMMEDIATELY, and gently start to brake, being aware of the traffic around you, and pull the car to the side of the street or road as soon as possible.
  • The last resort is turning off the ignition, but you have to make sure that you do not lock the steering wheel. You will lose your power in the brakes and steering. DO NOT try to drive the vehicle, as it will rev the engine to a dangerous level.

"Knowing what to do in a potential emergency is what makes a driver a driver," Morse says. "Anyone can step on the gas and go straight, but do you know how to avoid a collision, or something like this?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Ram.

Isn't this ironic. The driver is a Police officer and he is driving at twice the legal speed in that area and look what happened.

Its a bit fitting in a way.

Why would anyone in their sane mind be drving at this speed on a public road, especially a ploce officer !!
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Old 6th February 2010, 02:36   #30
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
Basically these are milestone cars. Some are recognised as such soon after launch, others are recognised after a while.
The Nano was one of the very few which was recognised as one while still fresh AND not available in the market!!
I agree with you that the cars listed are milestone or pathbreaking cars. To me it gives me a great sense of pride to see the Tata Nano in a dozen all time great cars ....
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