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Old 10th March 2010, 19:20   #1
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Smile Evolution of a new car brand .. NOW ?

Hi all,

For the past many months there are some thoughts that are popping up in my mind regarding the International Automotive Industry.

-Can a new independent car brand enter in to the todays International market ?
-Even if it enters then will it be able to make a mark like Benz, BMW, Honda , Toyota etc have made ?
-Can it stand against these biggies and known for the next century?

Just want to know what the India's biggest forum on Automotive thinks about this.
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Old 11th March 2010, 00:00   #2
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Originally Posted by Berry View Post
Hi all,

For the past many months there are some thoughts that are popping up in my mind regarding the International Automotive Industry.

-Can a new independent car brand enter in to the todays International market ?


-Even if it enters then will it be able to make a mark like Benz, BMW, Honda , Toyota etc have made ?

-Can it stand against these biggies and known for the next century?

Just want to know what the India's biggest forum on Automotive thinks about this.
Can a new independent car brand enter in to the todays International market ?

Yes

-Even if it enters then will it be able to make a mark like Benz, BMW, Honda , Toyota etc have made ?

Yes but it takes time just like they have taken

-Can it stand against these biggies and known for the next century?

various factors come into play here, short answer : yes


Question for you : Are you involved with such an endeavour ?
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Old 11th March 2010, 00:08   #3
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Think Pagani. In it's niche segment, it has carved a place for itself.

Among the mainstream brands, you have Hyundai which has done extremely well for itself and if they keep going the way they have for the past decade, they will soon be at the top.
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Old 11th March 2010, 00:54   #4
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the answer will be YES, it can happen.

just look at Telsa, born only a couple of years ago, & now a star...competing with the other big supercars. the product & the servicing make things better for a company.
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Old 11th March 2010, 00:59   #5
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Originally Posted by Berry View Post
Hi all,

-Can a new independent car brand enter in to the todays International market ?
-Even if it enters then will it be able to make a mark like Benz, BMW, Honda , Toyota etc have made ?
-Can it stand against these biggies and known for the next century?

.
Yes, a new brand can defenitely enter into the todays provided it has :-

1. A product that can be a gamechanger ,for example , something that can beat our nano. Also one can look at how the miata and the other toyotas and hondas changed the scene in the american auto industry. Earlier bulky, gas-guzzling monsters were the american trend, but the entry of japanese cars introduced the whole new concept of compact, sporty and fuel efficient cars). The VW beetle is one such classic example which changed the perception that only the rich Germans could afford cars, this car was supposedly the "people's car " that ordinary folks can afford. (its an irony that right now, atleast in india, the beetle is something only the rich who have a lot of moolah to throw away on a bug can afford)

2. A niche product to stand out amongst the others that are already there ,for example, koenigsegg started only in the mid 1990's, but its a name to reckon with in the hypercar domain. Also the lamborghini which actually was manufacturing tractors at one point of time. If only our own pind-da-peoplemover, Sonalika, had a better product than the qualis or the sumo then I am sure there will be a lot of takers. Even now I see quite a few sonalikas on bangalore roads). Another classic case, the rebadged chevy tahoe (i.e the hummer(h2)) which has quite a lot of popularity despite being a poor and lowly sibling of the mighty H1. But these niche products can create a brand name to reckon with and the brand name can gain quite a lot of popularity, but whether they make money for the brand or not is a different question altogether.

3. Product that has a drastic technoligical advancement ( for example the toyota prius). As a matter of fact one such excellent example is our own M800 which brought in a major change in the mindset of the indian buyer who was previously used to only the amby's and fiat's . To us indians this car was way ahead in terms of technology than those outdated cars that were ruling the roost for so many decades earlier. maruthi as a brand was established there and is still a name to reckon with in the indian market.

4. To a common man, a product that can match the reliablity and durablity and the VFM factor of the toyotas, chevys and the hondas of the world. But for the people to certify a product as reliable or durable will happen only after the product has proven in the market over and over , year on year for years together, but then the hondas and toyotas also started as beginners at some point of time didnt they?

Last edited by Rotorhead : 11th March 2010 at 01:04.
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:32   #6
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Originally Posted by Kinetik View Post
Can a new independent car brand enter in to the todays International market ?

Yes

-Even if it enters then will it be able to make a mark like Benz, BMW, Honda , Toyota etc have made ?

Yes but it takes time just like they have taken

-Can it stand against these biggies and known for the next century?

various factors come into play here, short answer : yes


Question for you : Are you involved with such an endeavour ?

No mate, I am neither in to Automotive Business nor I intend to start any car brand, and yes I am not even a Market Researcher.
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:50   #7
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To compete against the established brands at competetive prices, the company will have to be a huge one, preferably with some established infrastructure and access to (or buy) technical know how. If we see the new brands that entered over the past 25 years or so, almost all the success stories are from well established companies. If the company follows the best of manufacturing principles followed by Japanese & other leading automobile manufacturers, it stands a good chance. Else, kaput.

If the brand can compress essential features like ABS, airbags, high FE and so on at an affordable price for the customer, I am sure a new brand would click.
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Old 11th March 2010, 17:33   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berry View Post
-Can a new independent car brand enter in to the todays International market ?

-Even if it enters then will it be able to make a mark like Benz, BMW, Honda , Toyota etc have made ?

-Can it stand against these biggies and known for the next century?
No, Yes and Yes. Why is the first answer no? Simply because of the word "independent". Consider Lexus. It's amongst the newest, now mass market, brands yet one that's only 20 years old. Lexus brought something new to the table : Luxury at VFM pricing + Jap reliability. And then, backed it up with outstanding customer service.

However, Lexus isn't an independent brand. As we all know, its part of the Toyota umbrella. An independent couldn't take that risk and would probably run out of $$$ while their balance sheets are still red. Which bankers, especially after the recent recession, would be mad enough to invest in a car company today? They'd have to smoking some real strong stuff.

You have listed out Toyota, BMW etc., thus I take your question as, whether a new independent car brand - at the mass market level - can survive today? I don't think so. It will be a herculean task as the car making business has drastically changed in the last two decades. Thanks to changing economic conditions, smaller brands have either got wiped out or bought over by large cos. In fact, safe management predictions point toward massive brand consolidation in the coming 15 years.....at the end of which, there will only be 5 - 7 car companies in total (holding multiple brands under their umbrella). The barrier to entry is simply too high, from the POVs of finance, technology, distribution and marketing.

Note, I'm not talking niche players like Reva, International Tractors (Rhino) or a Pagani. I'm talking about players who eventually get to the level of the 4 brands in the opening post.
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Old 11th March 2010, 21:30   #9
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
No, Yes and Yes. Why is the first answer no? Simply because of the word "independent". Consider Lexus. It's amongst the newest, now mass market, brands yet one that's only 20 years old. Lexus brought something new to the table : Luxury at VFM pricing + Jap reliability. And then, backed it up with outstanding customer service.................
Exactly GTO, I was thinking the same way that it is close to impossible for any new independent car company to enter and win. I think Hyundai is still a struggler and trying very hard to find a respectable space in the world market (I am not talking about Korea and India specifically). Hyundai cars are rated bad in almost of the car mags in Europe.


Anyways lets see if some company comes up till the time we are alive.
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Old 11th March 2010, 23:37   #10
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GTO, you forget Hyundai. Where was Hyundai in the worldwide market 10 years ago? See where they are today. In terms of quality, sales, turnover, everything.
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Old 12th March 2010, 12:42   #11
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I think Hyundai is still a struggler and trying very hard to find a respectable space in the world market (I am not talking about Korea and India specifically). Hyundai cars are rated bad in almost of the car mags in Europe.
I beg to differ. Hyundai is hardly a struggler today...it is the 4th largest car manufacturer worldwide! Hyundai's cars have come a long way. Today, they either match the Japanese in outright quality, or beat them. In fact, Hyundai is credited with keeping the prices of Toyota & Honda in check. I deeply respect the brand.

Highly recommended Hyundai read : Link to Fortune Magazine

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
GTO, you forget Hyundai. Where was Hyundai in the worldwide market 10 years ago?
Good point. However, the thread starter is talking about a fresh brand, starting from the ground up today. Hyundai's auto manufacturing division is over 4 decades old. It was only in the eighties that they started taking exports seriously and started off (among other countries) in the United States. While they had a rough start, what Hyundai has achieved in the last 10 years is commendable. They are now fighting it out, on sheer capability, with the best.
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Old 12th March 2010, 12:49   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berry View Post
I think Hyundai is still a struggler and trying very hard to find a respectable space in the world market (I am not talking about Korea and India specifically). Hyundai cars are rated bad in almost of the car mags in Europe.


Anyways lets see if some company comes up till the time we are alive.
Not quite Berry. Hyundai is a force to reckon with. Read here,

The Weekend Interview with Ford's Alan Mulally - WSJ.com

"Despite Toyota's troubles, Mr. Mulally still lists the company at the top of the competitors he respects (and perhaps fears) the most, along with Volkswagen, Honda and Korea's Hyundai. "I have tremendous respect for those four or five," he says, before quickly catching himself and adding: "And GM, of course." "
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Old 12th March 2010, 12:51   #13
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I beg to differ. Hyundai is hardly a struggler today...it is the 4th largest car manufacturer worldwide! Hyundai's cars have come a long way. Today, they either match the Japanese in outright quality, or beat them. In fact, Hyundai is credited with keeping the prices of Toyota & Honda in check. I deeply respect the brand.

Highly recommended Hyundai read : Link to Fortune Magazine
I have always disrespected Hyundai because of the lack of driving pleasure one derives out of there cars, this may be subjective but it is to most of the driving population even in India. Hyundai copies designs from the european and american OEMs and it all started with the Sonata's Generation which was launched in India had high similarity to the Jag S-Type, even the new i20 is almost a carbon copy of the Vauxhaul Corsa 2009, I was almost taking it as an i20 when I saw it in London last year. Hyundai has an endless list of such things.

Last edited by Technocrat : 12th March 2010 at 13:11. Reason: fixed quotes
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Old 12th March 2010, 13:25   #14
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I have always disrespected Hyundai because of the lack of driving pleasure one derives out of there cars, this may be subjective but it is to most of the driving population even in India.
The niche in which Santro and i10 compete doesn't have any performance car. People in that niche generally look for cheap maintenance, more comfort and rarely for performance. That's the reason (along with bad service) why the Palio failed. In the sedans, Verna is a really great car with a good performance. Agreed that i20 doesn't have a good performance, but just look at the plethora of features it offers. I will surely take an i20 rather than a highly overpriced Honda Jazz. I would prefer to pay for a car who has copied designs than paying for something that is overpriced.
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Old 12th March 2010, 15:19   #15
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As mentioned Hyundai has made tremendous progress since the last 10 years which has led to the company that it is today.
but it needs some more time (talking about foreign markets) to gain recognition.
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