Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th July 2014, 05:03   #3946
Senior - BHPian
 
maddy42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Coorg
Posts: 1,770
Thanked: 382 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToroRosso View Post
Btw - what pipes have you got on her?
Dan moto pipes. Sorry missed in my previous posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
Maddy,
Quote:
I was wondering if you ever took a Basic Rider Course (BRC).
I did the MSF course here and thats how i got my endorsement. Plan on going for novice track days to get better and after a couple of months do the advanced course in MSF.

Quote:
Please do be very careful and be vary of the car drivers, especially female drivers. Most of them will see you, but simply will not register or worse, you're a nuisance.
+1. We got the following bunch. The Brah...s in pickups, minivans and a migrating population of winter birds in their late 80s. Will be on their lookout.

Quote:
I also didn't see a riding boot in your list. I hope it's just a miss.
Just a temp miss. I was running short of time and money at the store so put it up for a purchase for later. Need to check the store again.

Quote:
Sorry to sound so preachy but, far too many riders do not pay attention to details that make riding enjoyable.
Please any advice is good. Its better than the advice given by random folks that i am doing the worst thing in the world.

On my ride in the morning i realised i need to get in the ZEN mode while riding. Block all thoughts and keep a calm mind as me and my bike are the only thing i should think about.

This is opposed to in a car you can think about the music, the weather, the good looking thing in your mirror, your badge which is in the back of the bag, that you forgot to close your pant zipper .

None of the above will fly on the bike.

Maddy
maddy42 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2014, 16:48   #3947
BHPian
 
vulcanize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NYC/Chennai
Posts: 82
Thanked: 78 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
One reason I never rode to work or into the City, when I had my Duc, too many maniacs on the road.
Totally agree since I have had my fair share of morons who decided not to share the road with me.
I for one was very shocked to know that the average yearly deaths on the roads in the US due to motorcycle accidents is around 4700.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_U.S._by_year
That is like 4 per day (and considering that I live in the North East where riding is not possible for almost 8 months in a year).
OUCH!!!!

Be double safe and watch out for the craziness of others is my motto.
vulcanize is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2014, 18:13   #3948
BHPian
 
LTAutoMad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46
Thanked: 152 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

maddy42, Congratulations on your bike!

As a fellow-rider, I am also echoing the safety warnings given out by the others. Its the same here in Australia, the fatality rate for motorbike riders is 40x that of car drivers! I ride a full sized HD Fatboy fitted with passing lights (so three big lights lit up front) and a loud Vance & Hines exhaust - in spite of that, I have lost count of the number of occasions I had to do emergency evasive manoeuvres to avoid cars that just "didn't see me" and cut in front of me!

The reality in the US, Australia & Canada (3 huge countries with long distances and large, powerful cars) is that with such a miniscule proportion of two wheelers, people just don't expect or plan for them. Also, because most people haven't even ever got on a motorcycle, they have no idea of how fast these things can move.

Watch out for young men who will want to race you, young girls applying makeup & texting, frantic parents managing their backseat children, middle aged drivers angry at the whole world, old fellows with reduced reflexes, dreamers, drunks, junkies etc etc etc - basically everyone else on the road!!

Please attend some motorcycle rider / safety courses - the only way to survive is to drive hyper defensively. You could do everything right, but still be collected by an absent minded driver. Red lights are a very dangerous place for a biker - it is quite common for cars to ram you from behind. I always stop with the bike in gear, having an escape path in front of me, keeping an eagle eye on the rear view mirror.

In spite of all that, its still worth it to follow your passion. After sometime, defensive riding will become second nature. Enjoy your bike!
LTAutoMad is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2014, 18:40   #3949
BHPian
 
NinadJoshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Maratha Country
Posts: 289
Thanked: 243 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

"Get Horizontal" - by B. Jan Hoffman, referenced and reproduced all over the internet. Hope this helps.

-----------------------------------------------------
43% of all motorcycle accidents occur as a result of an oncoming vehicle turning across the path of a rider. Drivers simply fail to recognize the motorcyclist's right of way. Their typical lament is "I just didn't see him". You might lament "How the hell is that possible, you were looking right at me, you zoned-out space cadet!"

Some motorcyclists may feel that drivers deliberately choose not to see us. They feel that drivers resent us because of our agility, acceleration, or designer leathers. Others suspect that some car drivers must be anally retentive psychopaths who compensate for their fear of flying by driving to kill.

In the urban rain forests of LA or New York, that may be true. But elsewhere, most drivers really don't see motorcycles. Well yes, their eyes see us, but the image doesn't register in the brain. Why is that?

Some intelligent doctor types have postulated that the brain is an organ which rejects, rather than gathers information. They believe that if all the information collected by the senses were to register, the brain would experience sensory overload and blow its fuses.

For example, all the billboards, signs and other visual messages along the road can't possibly register in the brains of car drivers. That would cause sensory overload. To prevent that, the brain tends to organize the world into systems; those which are important to the activity at hand, and those which aren't. The car driver's brain has learned to exclude the non-essentials, and to focus only on those objects which are a threat to survival. On the road, those objects are predominantly other cars. Because cars are much wider than they are tall, the brain systematizes threats as objects characterized by horizontal lines.

Things characterized by vertical lines are eliminated from consciousness as non-threatening, extraneous information. Trees, lamp standards, sign posts, bridge abutments, buildings; none of these vertical objects are liable to jump out in front of the driver to threaten his existence.

Along comes a motorcycle. The driver's eyes give it a quick visual scan and the brain determines that this too is a vertical object. No threat. No further focus required. Zone out. Continue replay of last nights debauchery.
The next thing you know, the driver turns left across your lane even though you can see him looking right at you!

In my early days of riding, an experienced rider hammered at me ceaselessly with the message that "You are invisible out there!" All I heard him say was "Be careful". I didn't understand at the time that he was saying "To most car drivers, you are literally invisible."
Anyone with experience on a bike knows that he was right. Many a novice rider has departed the corporal world because he rode his bike the way he drove his car; as if he could actually be seen.

My advice is, if you don't want to be horizontal, look horizontal. How do we do that? One way is to use running lights. Many Japanese bikes have orange running lights up front integrated into the signal light housing. That gives some sense of horizontal perspective to car drivers. Some Harleys have a pair of white driving lights alongside of the headlight. That's more effective due to the increased candlepower.

I've often lamented the lack of stock running lights on unfaired airheads. A single headlight does not give a sense of perspective, and therefore tends to disappear into the background. I replaced the stock signal lights on the front of my Roadster with 4" round signal/running lights. They immediately and dramatically improved the etiquette of the other users of the road. Some Airheads have disparaged the aesthetics of my "police" lights. I find the impromptu installation of a Buick grill even less attractive.

I've also converted the rear signal lights to signal/running lights. As with the additional front lights, they made an immediate improvement in the etiquette of other road users.

I realized the importance of rear running lights when I was following a friend home from Barley Therapy one dark evening. To my surprise, rather than focusing on his GS tail light and spacing myself accordingly, I soon found myself gauging my distance from the rear end of the car ahead of him.

His pathetic little taillight simply dissolved into the brighter lights of the car, and his bike effectively disappeared.

If this can happen to me, you can be sure it will happen to car drivers, who are not attuned to motorcycles.
So, get horizontal. Convert your signal lights into signal/running lights. If you are going to apply reflective tape to your bike, jacket or helmet, make horizontal or diagonal lines rather than vertical ones.

Most of all, negotiate our streets and highways as if you are invisible.

-----------------

Last edited by NinadJoshi : 21st July 2014 at 18:52.
NinadJoshi is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2014, 20:02   #3950
Distinguished - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,904
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

So, while driving back from Toronto yesterday, I found the American equivalent of one truck overtaking another painfully slowly. A Prius overtaking a truck, with a line of 15 cars behind it!
I got quite a few chances to put all the 400 horses to some good use yesterday.
amitoj is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2014, 20:07   #3951
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,447
Thanked: 414 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcanize View Post
I for one was very shocked to know that the average yearly deaths on the roads in the US due to motorcycle accidents is around 4700.
That is an incredibly high number. Unusually high for the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTAutoMad View Post
maddy42, Congratulations on your bike!

As a fellow-rider, I am also echoing the safety warnings given out by the others. Its the same here in Australia, the fatality rate for motorbike riders is 40x that of car drivers!
Again, incredibly high in comparison to cars. There must be a good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinadJoshi View Post
"Get Horizontal" - by B. Jan Hoffman, referenced and reproduced all over the internet. Hope this helps.

------------
Thanks for sharing this. I think this helps me understand why a lot of bikers have sort of horizontal lights these days. I was reading this Police officer killed in motorcycle crash before I read this thread. I guess yet another situation where the driver didn't see the motorcycle at all. I met a biker on saturday, he had a leather jacket that said - "Loud pipes save lives". I think that is very true. If you are on a motorcycle, do everything to ensure others know your presence - be safe. Motorcycle accidents in the US/ Canada and Australia seem to be nearly always fatal - high speeds etc causing it.
vineethvazhayil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2014, 23:30   #3952
BHPian
 
vulcanize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NYC/Chennai
Posts: 82
Thanked: 78 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vineethvazhayil View Post
That is an incredibly high number. Unusually high for the US.
Yup. And the figures are on an upswing in the past four years - touching 5000+
Pretty dicey to be riding since at least 30% of the four wheel drivers in the US should NOT be on the road behind wheels.
I was unaware of the stats till going for the mandatory course for endorsement (that is where I became aware of the 4 per day fatalities average in my neck of the woods - where it is only possible to ride for 4 months in a year).
Hence motorcycles are called "Donor" cycles and even my personal physician (a lovely Indian doctor and a fantastic person) tried to dissuade me from riding and was trying her level best on convincing to restart playing golf instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LTAutoMad View Post
Red lights are a very dangerous place for a biker - it is quite common for cars to ram you from behind.
Very true. Intersections are the most dangerous place for a two wheeler rider. Apart from what you mentioned above, there is the BIGGEST danger of the moron coming flying down the road to beat the red light.
I am seeing a new trend in more folks just rushing through a red when they should be slowing down and stopping at amber.

Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd July 2014 at 00:04. Reason: back to back posts merged, thanks
vulcanize is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2014, 17:06   #3953
BHPian
 
LTAutoMad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46
Thanked: 152 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcanize View Post
Hence motorcycles are called "Donor" cycles
In Australia, the term for motorcyclists is Temporary Australians! Tragically true. There is now even a motorbike themed TV show called Temporary Australians.
LTAutoMad is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2014, 01:34   #3954
Distinguished - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,904
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Came across these two Challenger ads. No catchy jingle. No flashy stunts. No Van Damme splits. Just engine roaring.

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7pyF/dodge-ch...-you-know-hood

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7pyM/dodge-ch...u-know-profile
amitoj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2014, 11:15   #3955
Senior - BHPian
 
maddy42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Coorg
Posts: 1,770
Thanked: 382 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Wow thanks folks for that scary statistic. I will ride safe and start using my fluroscent jacket too.

Maddy
maddy42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2014, 13:45   #3956
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,548
Thanked: 4,525 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Please do be very careful and be vary of the car drivers, especially female drivers.
Not to put to fine a point on it, but in most western countries the above statement would be considered at the bare minimum "politically incorrect" or banned from the forum alltogether. You have just disqualified 50% of the world population, based on gender. Maybe it escaped our forum's Mod attention, or maybe you can make such statements in India? I don't know.

In most Western countries it would be factually incorrect as well. Women, statistically speaking, have fewer accidents than men. In many countries, including the USA, women drivers could be paying less car insurance premium then the men, for this very reason!

Statistically women tend to do slightly worse then men in the sort of simple dent and scratch incidents. Typically parking manoevres and such. But statistically speaking they are considerably less prone to major and fatal accident compared to male drivers. Which ultemately swings the insurance premiums in their favour compared to men.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 23rd July 2014 at 13:46.
Jeroen is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2014, 21:43   #3957
BHPian
 
mohit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto / Kurukshetra
Posts: 635
Thanked: 118 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Not to put to fine a point on it, but in most western countries the above statement would be considered at the bare minimum "politically incorrect" or banned from the forum alltogether. You have just disqualified 50% of the world population, based on gender. Maybe it escaped our forum's Mod attention, or maybe you can make such statements in India? I don't know.

In most Western countries it would be factually incorrect as well. Women, statistically speaking, have fewer accidents than men. In many countries, including the USA, women drivers could be paying less car insurance premium then the men, for this very reason!

Statistically women tend to do slightly worse then men in the sort of simple dent and scratch incidents. Typically parking manoevres and such. But statistically speaking they are considerably less prone to major and fatal accident compared to male drivers. Which ultemately swings the insurance premiums in their favour compared to men.

Jeroen
I will +1 it! I have been commuting on a bike (the human powered version) lately and women are way more courteous and careful around bikes then men ever are.
mohit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2014, 22:16   #3958
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,548
Thanked: 4,525 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohit View Post
I will +1 it! I have been commuting on a bike (the human powered version) lately and women are way more courteous and careful around bikes then men ever are.
I second that. And although I don't have any statistical evidence to back it up, in my experience women the world over tend to be more courteous and careful in just about everything they do then men.

Jeroen
Jeroen is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2014, 22:28   #3959
Distinguished - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,904
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

^^ women, yes. Girls, I am not so sure. They get distracted very easily by their cellphones. Or maybe because i pay more attention to them ( ) that is why i think so.
amitoj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2014, 23:27   #3960
BHPian
 
VLOCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Las Vegas, USA
Posts: 558
Thanked: 603 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

I'm the one who made the statement.

I agree, in general, female drivers cause fewer accidents than males. However, it does not really mean much when it comes to motorcycling. Reasons such as lower driving speed in general, more deliberate and cautious maneuvers etc. can be attributed to the low accident rate, but, it could still be fatal to a rider, while a car may just get a dent.

While a lot of males, I find, have some kind of interest in motorcycles, significantly fewer females have any interest and many are downright hostile. Let alone an understanding of the capabilities and handling limitations of a motorcycle.

It is my observation that, in United States anyway, many more females than males deliberately or not do endangering stunts like abrupt braking in front of riders, merge lanes within a foot of the motorcycle and do other such stunts, indicating limited understanding of motorcycle handling/braking capabilities. In general, exhibiting lack of awareness of the presence of a rider (seen or not), which was what I was stating.

Unlike an automobile, on a motorcycle you may not get a second chance. So when I make an observation on riding, political correctness is not exactly a priority. Getting back in one piece to your family is what I'm thinking about.

Don't forum like these exist to voice your observations. Unless, I'm specifically targeting an individual, what does political correctness, unless it directly suggests unsafe practices, gotta do with opinions on an automobile forum. If opinions cannot be aired here, the use of such a great forum is greatly diminished. We're not engaged in some theoretical discussion here.

I will however, apologize for the perceived 'incorrectness' of my statement, if other forum users find it so offensive.
VLOCT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in Europe Saarth The International Automotive Scene 25 9th November 2015 17:43
Car of the Year 2012 -North America volkman10 The International Automotive Scene 0 10th January 2012 17:31
President and COO of Toyota North America joins Chrysler highwayblaze The International Automotive Scene 11 9th September 2007 21:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:22.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks