Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th August 2015, 00:22   #4936
BHPian
 
VIPER_SRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 432
Thanked: 170 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I'm not sure how you can tell a car screams "service due now".
Most of the modern cars have sensors with service due reminders built in. Also shows remaining engine oil life, coolant level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
If you owners manual stipulates an oil change at say, every 10.000 km and you change it at every 2.000km that is fine.
I said "at 20% of its remaining life" which means changing the oil at 8k miles not 2K.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
You will not be able to measure the effect of that in terms of wear and tear.
That's the point! We can't measure..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Providing you are using the correct oil the main factors determining wear and tear on an engine related to lubrication are:
- High revving and loading of an engine in which the oil hasn't reach normal operating temperature
- Low cooling water temperature (when start up cold and or a faulty thermostat)
- dirty oil filter
- dirty air filter
Again, how do you know if the lessee followed all the above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Also, filters get very little attention. People will easily shell out big bucks to pay the best oil money can buy and than also install a dirt cheap filter.
Point taken when you go to a local service center and carry your own Mobil 1 synthetic oil. At least, We don't need to worry about type of oil and genuine filters when going to authorized dealers for service though they rip you off! But those service records help you sell the car at market price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Any modern properly maintained engine you can idle for as long as you like, that's what they are designed for. Millions of cars proof this very point every day sitting stuck in endless jams running their Acs.
Unfortunately, this doesn't prove anything! Just bcos everyone is eating fast food and looking fine doesn't mean the food is good. Couldn't get a better example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
All that happens is you divert the cooling water through the car's heater and you have a fan blowing. The one thing you might want to watch is the cooling water temperature.
Cooling water is not used in the engines rather a coolant is used in modern engines. During the combustion, an engine generates a lot of heat in the engine block and for it cool down the coolant is run through it, thereby making the coolant hot which circulates though the car radiator in the front of the engine to cool down. A cabin heater in HVAC is nothing but a small radiator that lets the hot coolant circulate through its coils to pump warm air through the cabin and this only happens (warm air coming through the vents) when the coolant is hot which in turn happens only after the engine warms up! We technically don't have a heater to warm up the cabin! Cooling water if used has a max BP of 100 C which is not enough for an engine to cool down. The coolant on the other hand with a BP of more than 250 C degrees is used in all engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Modern diesels are notoriously efficient and when cold, really cold, they can take a long time to get to normal operating temperature. That's when excessive wear and tear occurs! By opening the heater you actually cause that to take longer!
There's no such thing as car heater in a car so even if you turn on the heat, cold air blows through the vents till the coolant warms up. This of-course doesn't help me in proving my point of engine idling though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I have been in a Volkswagen Diesel in Norway at -26oC and during long idle period we could actually see the cooling temperature dropping a bit. But that is only under extreme circumstances.
I'm sorry but I've no clue what that means! You mean engine temperature dropping a bit?

Please correct me if I'm wrong on the above findings.

Last edited by VIPER_SRT : 19th August 2015 at 00:40.
VIPER_SRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 07:04   #4937
BHPian
 
Jomz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit, MI,USA
Posts: 766
Thanked: 256 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
The coolant on the other hand with a BP of more than 250 C degrees is used in all engines.
No way!!!! I'll pay you 100K right now, if you can get me a commercial economical coolant with heat capacity of water and BP of 250C.

Typical BP of coolants are slightly above 100C - around 120C, 130C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post

I'm sorry but I've no clue what that means! You mean engine temperature dropping a bit?

Please correct me if I'm wrong on the above findings.
Seen that in a Corolla in the recent polar vortex. Noticed that at idle, the heat taken away from the cabin heating system was higher than heat supplied to coolant - resulting in drop in temperature of coolant.

Meanwhile, Our group filed for a patent - and it is published.
https://www.google.com/patents/US20150219027

Last edited by Jomz : 19th August 2015 at 07:09.
Jomz is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 07:31   #4938
BHPian
 
VIPER_SRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 432
Thanked: 170 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
No way!!!! I'll pay you 100K right now, if you can get me a commercial economical coolant with heat capacity of water and BP of 250C.

Typical BP of coolants are slightly above 100C - around 120C, 130C.
I meant 250 F not C, sorry about that! 100K would be nice to have though!

Btw, Do you work for Cummins in Columbus area?

Last edited by VIPER_SRT : 19th August 2015 at 07:46.
VIPER_SRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 09:02   #4939
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,548
Thanked: 4,528 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
Most of the modern cars have sensors with service due reminders built in. Also shows remaining engine oil life, coolant level.
.
Yes, they do, but to my earlier point, dont worry if you overrun by a few thousand kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
I said "at 20% of its remaining life" which means changing the oil at 8k miles not 2K.
.
That's better, but you are still wasting money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
That's the point! We can't measure..
.
Yes, you can and it is being measure in test and I have measured it in test programs. Somewhere on the forum I have written about the lub oil test/research program I partifipated in some year ago. If you take two identical engines and run them in an identical way. Recommended oil change interval in 10.000km.
On engine one, after 8000km change the oil and run another 4000 km. Engine two you run for 12000km with no oil change. Then you open them both up and measure every compononent. You will not be able to measure any difference in wear and tear between the two of them


Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
There's no such thing as car heater in a car so even if you turn on the heat, cold air blows through the vents till the coolant warms up. This of-course doesn't help me in proving my point of engine idling though!
.
Lets no get caught up in semantics. Cars have two lets say heat exchangers, the radiator and the cabin heater. They work according to the exact same principle. If it gets really cold the thermostat will not direct any cooling liguid through the radiotor. If you open up the cabin heating controls to heat the cabin, the cooling liquid gets redirected and of course very cold outside air is blown across the cabin heater, thus reducing the cooling liquid temperature. Especially modern diesels are so effecient that during idle and or light loading they just dont produce much heat.

Not having your engine/cooling liquid/lub oil operating at the correct operating temperature is actually much more damaging to an engine then running with the same lub oil for a a few extra thousand kms over the recommended oil change interval.

You can very quickly actually measure those effects (and I have!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
I'm sorry but I've no clue what that means! You mean engine temperature dropping a bit?
.
See above, I hope that explains. If you are worried about engine wear and tear, make sure your engine is always running at the correct operating temperature.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 13:09   #4940
BHPian
 
rajushank84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 856
Thanked: 325 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Hey guys, thanks for everyone that helped with suggestions - I ended up picking up a used 370z with stickshift! Super stoked.
rajushank84 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 15:36   #4941
BHPian
 
Jomz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit, MI,USA
Posts: 766
Thanked: 256 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
Btw, Do you work for Cummins in Columbus area?
Yes, I do work for Cummins in Columbus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
Hey guys, thanks for everyone that helped with suggestions - I ended up picking up a used 370z with stickshift! Super stoked.
Congrats.. 370z is a nice car!!

Last edited by Jomz : 19th August 2015 at 15:39.
Jomz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 16:27   #4942
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,447
Thanked: 414 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Especially modern diesels are so effecient that during idle and or light loading they just dont produce much heat.
Agree on that one.. During the polar vortices, it takes several more minutes with diesel engines to get to comfortable temperatures in the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Meanwhile, Our group filed for a patent - and it is published.
https://www.google.com/patents/US20150219027
Awesome! Congratulations! Good stuff man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
Hey guys, thanks for everyone that helped with suggestions - I ended up picking up a used 370z with stickshift! Super stoked.
Congratulations on the z! Have fun! What happened to your wife wanting to drive?
vineethvazhayil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 20:45   #4943
Team-BHP Support
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 14,801
Thanked: 2,312 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
Hey guys, thanks for everyone that helped with suggestions - I ended up picking up a used 370z with stickshift! Super stoked.
Congratulations, Some pics & more details would be great
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 22:13   #4944
BHPian
 
VIPER_SRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 432
Thanked: 170 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Yes, I do work for Cummins in Columbus.
My cousin works in Cummins as well in Hybrid division, been to Columbus many times. Had a tour of your factory as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
I ended up picking up a used 370z with stickshift! Super stoked.
Congrats on your new ride. Lucky you for grabbing a stickshift! Post some pics when that initial adrenaline is over
VIPER_SRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2015, 22:50   #4945
BHPian
 
Jomz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit, MI,USA
Posts: 766
Thanked: 256 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
My cousin works in Cummins as well in Hybrid division, been to Columbus many times. Had a tour of your factory as well.
Let me know when you are here next time. We will meetup.
Jomz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2015, 01:55   #4946
BHPian
 
VIPER_SRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 432
Thanked: 170 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Let me know when you are here next time. We will meetup.
Sure thing! I heard you get good discounts for buying Dodge RAM trucks, not sure with or without Cummins engine. In Midwest every RAM truck owner with a Cummins diesel engine is proud to own it. They show it off with Decals of Cummins.
Attached Images
   
VIPER_SRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2015, 08:13   #4947
BHPian
 
rajushank84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 856
Thanked: 325 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by vineethvazhayil View Post
Agree on that one.. During the polar vortices, it takes several more minutes with diesel engines to get to comfortable temperatures in the car.

Awesome! Congratulations! Good stuff man!


Congratulations on the z! Have fun! What happened to your wife wanting to drive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Congratulations, Some pics & more details would be great
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPER_SRT View Post
Congrats on your new ride. Lucky you for grabbing a stickshift! Post some pics when that initial adrenaline is over

Thanks!
@vineethvazhayil I am trying to convince her to drive the bimmer . Maybe we will trade it in for a Civic or something.

A couple of pics of the new toy

Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America-untitled2resized.jpg
Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America-untitled3resized.jpg

... and a couple pics of the toy that's (most likely) going away:

Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America-20150413-12.48.05resized.jpg

Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America-20150413-12.47.26resized.jpg

Last edited by rajushank84 : 20th August 2015 at 08:17.
rajushank84 is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2015, 18:12   #4948
Distinguished - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,904
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Congratulations on getting the stick (pun intended)
Jokes apart, that's a slick looking ride. What finally tipped the scales in its favor?
amitoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2015, 19:34   #4949
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,447
Thanked: 414 Times
Default Re: Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
Thanks!
@vineethvazhayil I am trying to convince her to drive the bimmer . Maybe we will trade it in for a Civic or something.
Let me know how that goes. When we were getting a 2nd car in 2012, her necessity to drive a slush box pretty much prevented us from getting anything with a stick - and I was gunning for a G8 GXP or TL SH-AWD 6 speed. I would love to know how your "convincing her" goes.

Nice pictures btw! What tilted the equation in favor of the 370z? What happened to the STI/ Golf R etc.?
vineethvazhayil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2015, 21:43   #4950
BHPian
 
rajushank84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 856
Thanked: 325 Times
Default Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Congratulations on getting the stick (pun intended)

Jokes apart, that's a slick looking ride. What finally tipped the scales in its favor?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vineethvazhayil View Post
1

Let me know how that goes. When we were getting a 2nd car in 2012, her necessity to drive a slush box pretty much prevented us from getting anything with a stick - and I was gunning for a G8 GXP or TL SH-AWD 6 speed. I would love to know how your "convincing her" goes.



Nice pictures btw! What tilted the equation in favor of the 370z? What happened to the STI/ Golf R etc.?

The bimmer is automatic. I think since she's not used to driving she's just intimidated about high costs or repairing anything on this car if she hits/scratches anything, wants to start out with something small and humble. Can't say I disagree . On the flip side, according to my calculation we won't save much if we trade down for an econobox vs keep it for a few more years as the main/commute car and the Z as a Friday and weekend ride (also resale on the Z is crazy if we don't put a lot of miles on it). Going through options, not in a hurry. If I see a killer deal on an econobox I'll jump on it (just missed one). I just saw a killer deal on the Z and jumped on it.

Well what convinced me is test drives. I first test drove the CLS550 and 550i. Lot of available torque but soft, big cars. Felt like muscle cars. Same with Mustang GT. The new one handles great though.

Then I drove a Z automatic and wasn't impressed at all.

In between I drove an E93 M3 and it changed all my perspective. The way it delivers powers in a peaky way is addictive. After this m3 test drive I was driving my 328i quite fast. Realized that 328i is a bit similar to m3, you have to wring the power out and keep it boiling, that's the nature of the car. Surprising how quickly the 328i goes if you put it in sports mode and keep it above 3k rpms. That's a totally different feeling than the 335i which delivers a very flat torque curve.

Then drove f30 335i and s4. The f30 now felt almost like a 5 series in its handling. Don't get me wrong, it takes curves like a boss. It handles any corner you throw at it and accelerates plenty quick in sport mode. But the steering feel of my current e92 is gone and I wasn't convinced about paying 45k for it and then missing my steering feel .

The s4 is properly quick. It needs to be revved a bit but it's fun to do that. It does feel more like a muscle car, its heavy around the corners while it still takes them with grace. Steering and suspension (even in dynamic mode) was super soft. The car I test drove was equipped with a sports diff.

Then g37. I have always liked the g37 but it felt too similar to my 328i when driving, not an upgrade worth making. Maybe if I had no car and had to start over fresh, is definitely consider this great car. Also it's way too common among my friends and in my office.

Then I got this idea of instead of spending 45k on a more fun car, why not split it into two cars say 25k + 15k (save 5k), and also both of those cars together will have more resale value than any 45k car I buy. That would bring down the budget significantly to 25k for the fun car but it would no longer have restrictions like automatic, four door, four seater etc.

Started exploring the options. Z4 was quickly ruled out because the ones I'd get at 25k were too old and not cpo. There was a beautiful white z4 listed for 33k but it was gone before I could make up my mind.

Test drove the brz just to get a feel for it. I didn't know till I reached the dealership that it's a manual. When I found out, I decided to go ahead with the test drive anyway. I haven't driven stick for many years and when I did, it was back in india (except when I rented a fiesta st for a weekend and returned it saying it's too stressful to drive all the time).

But the brz test drive was fun! It's a fun little car feels like a go-kart! But soon I realized the power runs out. It's still fast but not super fast.

Then decided to give the Z another try with stick this time. I was floored. What a beast this is in stick. It's a completely different animal. I remember the automatic feeling tame and hesitant, this one is an absolute beast. I just kept test driving and it was so much fun I asked the sales advisor some more distance to drive. Great guy he agreed. Then I did the test drive again.

Out of all the cars I test drove so far, only the m3 and the Z really pulled at my heart. The other cars were good objectively speaking, but I could easily forget them. Only the m3 and the Z left a sensation in me, the raw feeling of driving. I was hooked.

I did visit the Subaru dealership to look at the wrx and sti. I didn't like the looks of the cars vs the Z. Besides the sti was way out of budget. Still asked for a test drive, they said something like we will let you drive it if you are going to buy. I was like whatever, my mind was on the Z. If I really wanted a test drive I know how to get it, but I didn't really want it. So yeah I didn't drive the wrx/sti at all. Maybe in future. I know they are great cars, let there be something to try if I get bored with Z. For now all I know is I want the Z. I don't care if something else is better. The proper sports car looks, the raw feeling, the agile turns, tight handling... Totally my kind of car.

I ruled out corvette on the basis of looks and size alone. I want small, nimble, sporty not muscular at this point.

Then research started for finding a Z. Resale value on these are crazy it seems, only one car with sports package in whole California and that's in Sacramento listed at 36k! Base ones at 31k and used ones are all listed at 28k even private sellers. Finally found one with sports package, a 2012 blue one with sports package and 35k miles. Ended up buying it for 21.5k. It's a lease return, the guy even showed me the lease payoff receipt at 21k he said he's just making 500 on it the boss wants to move it and make space. Took a test drive, fell in love with it. Clean carfax, one lease owner all maintenance done and no issues that I can see. The guy even showed me the kbb (which I verified on my own phone) it's worth 24k private party and 26k at dealership so he said even if I keep it for a year and then trade it in or take it to Carmax I'll at least get my money back. I'm inclined to believe even if that's not true, I won't lose very much on it.

Also this one comes with the sports package- the sports pack is important in a Z since it adds 19 inch forged Ray wheels, summer tires (pole position), big brakes, limited slip diff, synchro rev matching and a spoiler.

So that's the story of how I ended up with the Z.

The only downside with the Z is the huge blind spot. I've fixed part of it by getting the blind spot mirrors.
rajushank84 is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in Europe Saarth The International Automotive Scene 25 9th November 2015 17:43
Car of the Year 2012 -North America volkman10 The International Automotive Scene 0 10th January 2012 17:31
President and COO of Toyota North America joins Chrysler highwayblaze The International Automotive Scene 11 9th September 2007 21:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:41.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks