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Old 31st July 2012, 07:15   #1096
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That was one awesome car. The first car I drove in US was a Pontiac Grand Am, not the GT series though. Still, loved that car.

But i think Adi does not want to go the pre owned route. *yet*



I wont be surprised if the mouth watering deals you guys dig out and throw up force him to change his mind.
I do not want to go the pre owned route. I know the deals are pretty tempting and i had already decided that once i start working i will be getting a new one.

When i was a student i did not have any choice. But my 2002 Accord has served me well for the past one and a half years and 50k miles. I mite even keep it as a second one because i know it can easily go another 100k miles.

As of now i am sold on the charger. The new Altima also looks tempting.

Thinking time.

Adi
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Old 31st July 2012, 07:55   #1097
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The new Altima also looks tempting.
The new Altima looks good - much like the Maxima. Only con is that it's only offered with a CVT.
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Old 31st July 2012, 08:31   #1098
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The new Altima looks good - much like the Maxima. Only con is that it's only offered with a CVT.
Will go test drive the charger soon. The SXT with the eight speed box is really nice to drive i heard. A million times better than the boring CVT.

Though the Altima is way cheaper than the charger and will retain a pretty good resale too.

Adi
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Old 31st July 2012, 15:03   #1099
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Will go test drive the charger soon. The SXT with the eight speed box is really nice to drive i heard. A million times better than the boring CVT.

Adi
One piece of advice. Don't test drive the Charger R/T like i did!!
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Old 31st July 2012, 15:09   #1100
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One piece of advice. Don't test drive the Charger R/T like i did!!
LOL! Thats way out of my budget
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Old 31st July 2012, 15:14   #1101
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LOL! Thats way out of my budget
Only slightly beyond 30K. Am sure the dealerships you go to will try to put you in an R/T, specially if they have it on their inventory. Are you looking for an AWD or will an RWD be good enough? Since you want SXT with blacktop package and it comes only on RWD, i got the impression that you are looking for RWD only.
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Old 31st July 2012, 15:20   #1102
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Only slightly beyond 30K. Am sure the dealerships you go to will try to put you in an R/T, specially if they have it on their inventory. Are you looking for an AWD or will an RWD be good enough? Since you want SXT with blacktop package and it comes only on RWD, i got the impression that you are looking for RWD only.
To be frank i have never driven an AWD i guess. So don quite know the difference. Most dealers do not have the SXT wit blacktop in stock. And there is hardly a price difference between the blacktop and R/T. The 5.7 HEMI sounds tempting but it must be a big time guzzler.

Am still confused.
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Old 31st July 2012, 15:32   #1103
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To be frank i have never driven an AWD i guess. So don quite know the difference. Most dealers do not have the SXT wit blacktop in stock. And there is hardly a price difference between the blacktop and R/T. The 5.7 HEMI sounds tempting but it must be a big time guzzler.

Am still confused.
Yeah since the new models are just around the corner, dealer inventories will be running low on 2012 models.

The AWD is not a full time AWD. Mostly it runs in RWD mode only, so you wont see much difference. I wanted an AWD because it is more handy during the New England winters, though seasoned drivers are quite happy driving an RWD all through the year, in all sorts of driving conditions. You put on snow tires on an RWD/FWD and you are good to go!

As for mileage, after my recent trip to Mt Washington, i am getting 22+ mpg. And its only 1500 odd miles old. I am told that the VVT becomes more effective after 3000-4000 miles, so maybe the FE will go up by a further notch or two then. Though I am not fully certain that that will be the case.
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Old 31st July 2012, 15:45   #1104
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Yeah since the new models are just around the corner, dealer inventories will be running low on 2012 models.

The AWD is not a full time AWD. Mostly it runs in RWD mode only, so you wont see much difference. I wanted an AWD because it is more handy during the New England winters, though seasoned drivers are quite happy driving an RWD all through the year, in all sorts of driving conditions. You put on snow tires on an RWD/FWD and you are good to go!

As for mileage, after my recent trip to Mt Washington, i am getting 22+ mpg. And its only 1500 odd miles old. I am told that the VVT becomes more effective after 3000-4000 miles, so maybe the FE will go up by a further notch or two then. Though I am not fully certain that that will be the case.
I was just going through your ownership report and you have mentioned that there was a huge difference in the way the r/t and the sxt handled. But i guess they have the same suspension setup right??

22 mpg on a long drive is not actually bad for a v8. The reason i was keen on the sxt was the eight speed box.
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Old 31st July 2012, 17:51   #1105
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I was just going through your ownership report and you have mentioned that there was a huge difference in the way the r/t and the sxt handled. But i guess they have the same suspension setup right??

22 mpg on a long drive is not actually bad for a v8. The reason i was keen on the sxt was the eight speed box.
Actually thats what i also thought, about the suspension, until i tried the two out. The suspension difference was so prominent that i came back after the test drive and looked closely at the R/T specs on the Dodge website. And it clearly mentioned that R/T has everything that SXT has, plus performance suspension (and ofcourse other minor things like the hemi etc)

The 8 speed gearbox is indeed quite attractive and supposed to be very frugal too. But i console myself by thinking that its best to go with a tried and tested engine-tranny combo, specially when it comes to American cars
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Old 31st July 2012, 23:26   #1106
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@ amitoj,

22 mpg is quite good for a hemi. The mileage will only get better. As a habit, I always change the oil after the first 100 miles and change the tranny fluid after a 1000 miles for auto and after 100 miles for manual shift tranny's. I hate the thought of metal particles in the oil, I'm kinda paranoid that way. But then I keep my new cars for at least ten years or close. Full synthetic only. Cheers.
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Old 1st August 2012, 03:28   #1107
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@ amitoj,

22 mpg is quite good for a hemi. The mileage will only get better. As a habit, I always change the oil after the first 100 miles and change the tranny fluid after a 1000 miles for auto and after 100 miles for manual shift tranny's. I hate the thought of metal particles in the oil, I'm kinda paranoid that way. But then I keep my new cars for at least ten years or close. Full synthetic only. Cheers.
I know a lot of people like to do that and I would too if I bought an older car (say pre-2000) but personally, I don't think it necessary for the new stock of cars.

First oil change after a 1000 miles, I can live with. I know some auto-mfgs still offer this with their cars. (Mercedes does, I know and I think BMW does it for the M cars but I'm not sure).

But transmission fluid - no way I'm changing it out until at-least 50,000 miles for automatic, maybe earlier for manual.
[On that note - I have to change the tranny fluid in my car soon.]

Of-course, there's no harm changing out your fluids sooner than recommended but I'd rather stick to the part manufacturer's intervals rather than the car manufacturer's recommended intervals.

Theres a whole lot of debate that goes on regarding fluid change intervals and I don't think anybody's willing to budge .
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Old 1st August 2012, 04:09   #1108
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@aah78,

That's just my routine that I've followed for a long time. Never failed, so never changed the routine and probably never will. Typically around $300 for both engine and tranny oil change at the dealership. Cheap insurance, I think. After the first oil change, it's usually once a year for the engine oil and 30,000 miles for the tranny but then, I rarely put more than 6000 miles a year on my new vehicles and even less on my 911 since, I have a commuter '97 Mustang that gets all the garbage miles and I change the engine oil every 5000 miles and the tranny every 30,000 on that. Mobil 1 Full synthetic, of course. Moving to AMSOIL for the 911 after the engine upgrade.

Same for my Duc also, although I'm in the process of selling it. Hardly any twisties in Vegas and therefore, no point keeping it. Breaks my heart but, reality is staring at my face. It's pretty much sold at this point. Thank god, there are some nice roads for sports driving around here and in nearby California.

Cheers. Sorry all for hijacking the thread.

Last edited by VLOCT : 1st August 2012 at 04:22.
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Old 1st August 2012, 04:38   #1109
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Let me say usable performance? I think the k20 and f20 engines produced those hp figures at 6000 rpm and the like, and yes, they have notoriously low torque numbers. Good luck driving all day at 5000+ rpm. With turbos, what you get is more usable performance and lot of torque at lower RPMs.
Another example is the 2.0 T from BMW which is rated at 240hp but is faster than several 270+ bhp 2.0T cars. So I wouldn't look at purely the hp numbers, especially if they are achieved at rather lofty RPM range. I also distinctly remember reading that most german cars are deliberately under rated in spec sheets. So the 200 bhp and 240 bhp etc that you see on the specs, are more often than not the power at the wheels and not at crank. So yeah, while the GTI may not be screaming quick, it ticks a lot of boxes and is fun to drive. The Golf R is heavier and not much quicker because of AWD.
Well I agree the torque is lower on an NA engine. But the cars are geared to compensate for the low engine torque. I still don't understand what is usable power?? Ar first gear full throttle you still get all the Hp what it is rated for, turbo or non turbo, @ redline.

My point is not Honda is better than VW. My question is if Mitsubishi can produce 290 Hp from a 2.0l turbo , why can't VW do that in the GTi.??


If you have ever driven a stock GTi, It has an amazing turbolag till 2000rpm.Which is not there in any NA engine. And when the torque comes on, the front wheels have huge problems putting that to the ground. It just sits and spins. The Golf R with AWD does a better job of putting all that torque to the ground.

And crusing at high rpms is nothing new to Honda's , My car at 75mph runs at ~4000rpm. I'm pretty sure It'll run 5000 rpm all day. Good luck with that in VW.

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Old 1st August 2012, 05:25   #1110
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@ Jomz,

75 mph @ 4000 rpm. Man, that's a stressed engine. Getting higher BHP and fixing the turbo lag for the GTI is actually pretty easy. A simple remap will do. However, the key is torque. That's where S2000 falls drastically short, in my opinion. 153 lb-ft, 240 bhp@8300 rpm is more suited for a race track compared to 256 lb-ft, 256 bhp@5300 rpm for a 2.0 l turbo Solstice GXP. The punch in the gut from the starting block for the GXP is something to be felt to be believed for such a small engine.

The whole point of usable power is that, you don't need to full throttle to get to the sweet spot, unlike the S2000. If one keeps driving like that on a regular basis, we'll pretty much torpedo the engine, sooner or later, not to mention the stack of speed violations that'll pile up pretty quick. If you do a rolling run from, say 60 mph with a car like the GXP, the GXP will pull ahead initially (256 bhp @ 5300 rpm) due to the lower rpm sweet spot for the power delivery and massive torque advantage it has. The final speed of course will depend on the gearing.

I never understood the Jap philosophy of power delivery @ high rpm for road going cars. Never really enjoyed that kind of driving except on the track, where it's great. Still could use some beefy torque.

Last edited by VLOCT : 1st August 2012 at 05:32.
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