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Old 23rd August 2012, 01:07   #1186
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Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
I would look for a private sale and not a converted cop car, if possible.
I looked up copcarsonline.com and some of the deals out there are delicious. ( For example, this one for under $10K is a steal : http://www.copcarsonline.com/2009_Fo..._152288776.veh). However I am not aware of how/where individual sellers advertise their cruisers. Most local cruisers are on sale at shady 10-car dealerships, which I do not really want to indulge in.

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For a cop car, look for the ones in the regular colors and not with a typical cop multi-color scheme. They are the one used by the lieutenants and detectives and are in much better shape.
Acknowledged. But do these detective cars have the same reinforced underbody elements like suspension, axles as cruisers? I presume detectives get the usual grandpa Crown Vics (or am I completely wrong)?

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Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
Lincolns are solid cars. Check out some Buicks too. In fact, I would say most of the Ford offerings are world class now. I am biased anyway to the current US offerings, now that they've upped their standards considerably. I don't see any need to support Korea, Japan, Germany etc. anymore, when it comes to my personal transportation. Mainly because, it's this country that provided me for the last 15 years, 5 years before that in Canada. Italians of course, are unique and very close to my heart. Will own an Alfa in a jiffy, if they offer one. Now the home front, of course, gets what she wants, usually some Jap although, she's not particular.
Although I do not have a particularly patriotic perspective like yours, I'm not biased for a particular brand either. Am itching for my 11th car in 15 years (Done 5 American, 4 Japanese, 1 German so far) and not one was bought from anyone's recommendation or it's hearsay reputation. I buy what takes my whim and when I can afford to get it. Was probably the only Indian immigrant who unhesitatingly bought a Ford Taurus as his first car 15 yrs ago when every desi around me thought anything beyond the usual Camry/Corolla/Civic/Accord was a blasphemy.

In any case, it's about time desi's opened up to Cadillacs and Lincolns

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Old 23rd August 2012, 01:27   #1187
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@Ninad;

As far as I know the lieutenants got the same police spec cars. I would think almost all Vics should be below $10k except some on private sale with very low miles.

Let us know if you get to test drive some. Beware of the absolute crapolas that are also out there and is apparently an inside joke among cops on people who buy them. Be very meticulous and take your time. And of course, avoid the ones with bullet holes.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 01:47   #1188
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Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
I wonder if any member here has experience with BMW's N52 Motors.

How reliable are those. I did a brief google search and found that it has some pretty widespread issues. I am considering a 2008 Z4 that has n52 motor. So was just wondering if i should consider it or not.

Another one is N54 for 2009 335i coupe. Both the engines have horrible issues and some very expensive. While i will make sure both are in warranty, i don't want to risk it.

thanks
N54 problems??

from wikipedia

BMW N54 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

N52 is much more reliable than the N54. If i were to pick I would pick the Z4.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 01:51   #1189
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N54 problems??

from wikipedia

BMW N54 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

N52 is much more reliable than the N54. If i were to pick I would pick the Z4.
This info is chilling. I have strike of all N54 made motors so no 335i no 535i. 2010-2011 335i are a little above my budget. The biggest confusion. 335i coupe vs corvette. I know, corvette is the winner in terms of performance (straight line), i am sure 335i coupe will hold just as good in corners as handling of corvette is not one of its positives, but i am also considering interior quality where i will spend most of my time, warranty and other small things like backseats, cargo capacity and a little bit better BMW image.

As for Z4. Yes, i am seriously considering it as it is quite reasonably priced at $25k.

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Originally Posted by NinadJoshi View Post
In any case, it's about time desi's opened up to Cadillacs and Lincolns
I so want a CTS-V or STS-V. But CTS-V is not available in my budget and STS-V is like finding a needle in haystack. As for lincolns, i haven't driven any but i don't like the exterior appearance and all reviews point to it being boring to drive (cruisers) which is not my current criteria. May be in next 25-30 yrs if the brand is still alive.

Last edited by chevelle : 23rd August 2012 at 01:57.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 01:58   #1190
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Originally Posted by chevelle View Post

As for Z4. Yes, i am seriously considering it as it is quite reasonably priced at $25k.
Which variant of Z4 are you looking at? Asking since you can probably buy a Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S brand new for around that price.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 02:14   #1191
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335i coupe vs corvette. I know, corvette is the winner in terms of performance (straight line), i am sure 335i coupe will hold just as good in corners as handling of corvette is not one of its positives, but i am also considering interior quality where i will spend most of my time, warranty and other small things like backseats, cargo capacity and a little bit better BMW image.
Any base Corvette (C6) will out handle the 335i, Well it will even outhandle the M3.


BMW E92 M3- 8:05
'Vette C6 Z51-7:59

Taken from
List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The interior qualty is good on the BMW than the 'vette.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 02:41   #1192
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@chevelle;

I am afraid I don't see the 335i out cornering the 'vette in any scenario. The z4 maybe, because of the 'flingability' factor. See the slalom speed and G-forces comparison below;

Corvette blows the 335i out of the water, hell out of this planet when it comes to lateral grip (a neck breaking 0.98g, holy cow!!). The 335i is actually 300 lbs heavier. Corvette is a true super car with real super car capabilities. It's performance should be compared to the 911 and cars of that caliber. In fact, it typically out performs the 911 in most categories. It's the most affordable super car on the planet.


Corvette

2010 Grand Sport

Kerb Wt: 3210 lbs

Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 69.7
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 68.8
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.98
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.97

BMW 335i

Kerb Wt: 3542 lbs

Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 69.5
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.89

The typical let down for the corvettes has always been their interior. One of the reasons, I love the 1990-'96 C4 - a true jet fighter wrap around cockpit. Why GM ever went away from that is beyond me.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 03:03   #1193
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Which variant of Z4 are you looking at? Asking since you can probably buy a Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S brand new for around that price.
Its a 2008 Z4i with 30k miles on odo. They are asking $26k OTD and has warranty till 06/2014. I haven't yet finalized it, but just an option on my list.

The new BRZ/FR-S are very rare in market and most dealers are marking it up a lot and i won't pay a MSRP price let alone a dealer mark up on a new car. Also i found z4 interior pleasant even though its a ~5 yr old car. Didn't find fr-s interior appealing. And both touch $30k in which case i have better options.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Any base Corvette (C6) will out handle the 335i, Well it will even outhandle the M3.


BMW E92 M3- 8:05
'Vette C6 Z51-7:59

Taken from
List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The interior qualty is good on the BMW than the 'vette.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
@chevelle;

I am afraid I don't see the 335i out cornering the 'vette in any scenario. The z4 maybe, because of the 'flingability' factor. See the slalom speed and G-forces comparison below;

Corvette blows the 335i out of the water, hell out of this planet when it comes to lateral grip (a neck breaking 0.98g, holy cow!!). The 335i is actually 300 lbs heavier. Corvette is a true super car with real super car capabilities. It's performance should be compared to the 911 and cars of that caliber. In fact, it typically out performs the 911 in most categories. It's the most affordable super car on the planet.


Corvette

2010 Grand Sport

Kerb Wt: 3210 lbs

Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 69.7
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 68.8
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.98
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.97

BMW 335i

Kerb Wt: 3542 lbs

Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 69.5
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.89

The typical let down for the corvettes has always been their interior. One of the reasons, I love the 1990-'96 C4 - a true jet fighter wrap around cockpit. Why GM ever went away from that is beyond me.
I knew this was coming as i missed the edit window. I meant a modded 335i. I know it will be apples and oranges but considering it costs $1500 to get 335i to produce 50hp-80hp more, i am sure it can keep up with corvette. The reason i say modded is because the price difference is worth that much. A 2009 335i can be had for $31k while a 2008 Corvette can be had for $34k. Think what those $3k can yield in terms of mods or in terms of gas for a year and half.

Also i read many owner review that the ride quality and handling is not the best in corvette. This is not me, its accepted by most corvette owners.

Here is the thread.

My guide to owning a C6: the little things. - Corvette Forum

as most of the owners say, the rear is a bit lose and in hands of inexperienced driver it could be a problem.

But yes, i do know 335i won't be able to outrun unless modded and i should have mentioned that. Thanks for correcting.

But ride quality of 335i is widely accepted as much better than corvette and so is to an extent the handling keeping in mind, neither of these car that i buy will see track any day. So lets leave track numbers at track. I am talking more about daily driving and long trips on hills and freeways.

Also VLOCT, The numbers you have provided are for GS. Base corvette is a little more forgiving since it doesn't have Z51 Pkg and other modification similar to GS.

Last edited by chevelle : 23rd August 2012 at 03:07.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 03:39   #1194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
335i coupe vs corvette.
As for Z4. Yes, i am seriously considering it as it is quite reasonably priced at $25k.
Are you looking to track the car or is it mostly going to do duty as a daily driver?
The Z4 will suit better as a daily driver than the Corvette - depending on what type of roads you drive on & the traffic in your area.

Do you service your car or do you take it to the dealer?

If you're worried about the N54, and if maintenance costs are going to be an issue (i.e. you leave all maintenance to the dealer), then I wouldn't consider the 335i.

If you can do basic service yourself - oil changes, brake jobs, then the 335i isn't expensive to maintain.

If you want a good handler, I'd recommend the 328i over the 335i - it's fantastic on tiny windy hilly roads and being NA works perfectly on curvy roads, though personally, I don't like the GM auto-box in the 328.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Any base Corvette (C6) will out handle the 335i, Well it will even outhandle the M3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
I am afraid I don't see the 335i out cornering the 'vette in any scenario. The z4 maybe, because of the 'flingability' factor. See the slalom speed and G-forces comparison below;
That might be true on the track though I won't believe a base Corvette will out-handle an M3 anywhere - unless I see it happening.

The Z4 is not really a fling-able car. I'd use the term "grand-tourer", rather than "sports-car" in reference to a Z4.


However, how many cars is the Corvette going to out handle when you're commuting to and from work?


@chevelle, if you really want a low-maintenance-fun-to-drive-daily-driver-sports-car, I would always consider the MX-5 / Miata over all the choices you've listed.

Last edited by aah78 : 23rd August 2012 at 03:42.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 04:04   #1195
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Are you looking to track the car or is it mostly going to do duty as a daily driver?
The Z4 will suit better as a daily driver than the Corvette - depending on what type of roads you drive on & the traffic in your area.

Do you service your car or do you take it to the dealer?

If you're worried about the N54, and if maintenance costs are going to be an issue (i.e. you leave all maintenance to the dealer), then I wouldn't consider the 335i.

If you can do basic service yourself - oil changes, brake jobs, then the 335i isn't expensive to maintain.

If you want a good handler, I'd recommend the 328i over the 335i - it's fantastic on tiny windy hilly roads and being NA works perfectly on curvy roads, though personally, I don't like the GM auto-box in the 328.

That might be true on the track though I won't believe a base Corvette will out-handle an M3 anywhere - unless I see it happening.

The Z4 is not really a fling-able car. I'd use the term "grand-tourer", rather than "sports-car" in reference to a Z4.


However, how many cars is the Corvette going to out handle when you're commuting to and from work?


@chevelle, if you really want a low-maintenance-fun-to-drive-daily-driver-sports-car, I would always consider the MX-5 / Miata over all the choices you've listed.
I did mention in my previous post, i will never track the car. If i get a corvette, may be, just may be once in a life time, just for an experience i may track it. But for sure no other car will go to track.

I don't do maintenance myself. Any car i get, it will either go to a dealership or to a shop like Midas.

Somehow, 328i doesn't evoke good feeling in me. I find it terribly slow. Even slower than my 05 G35.

I agree with you, Z4 is a GT and not a track car. It is a good sports car than can give thrills in hills but as a GT it is even better. Another car i considered is a 2009 Audi TT. Again, can't find a good TTS but can find plenty of TT 2.0Ts for <$28k. Also it is FWD and could be a potential nightmare.

I saw miata. Its too small and for $30k, the interior is not best. Also found the performance very slow even though it was fun to drive.

I am still looking for 'Vette, but its been 2 months and yet haven't found one. So i am getting a little impatient and exploring other options

Last edited by chevelle : 23rd August 2012 at 04:11.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 06:05   #1196
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Base M3 Price: $60,000

Curb Wt: 3700 lbs
Torque: 295 ft-lbs. @ 3900 rpm
Horsepower: 414 hp @ 8300 rpm

Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 67.7
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 65.9
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.90
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.90


Corvette Base Price $50,000

Curb weight: 3208 lbs.
Torque: 424 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 430 hp @ 5900 rpm

Corvette Grand Sport Price $56,000

Curb weight: 3311 lbs.
Torque: 424 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 430 hp @ 5900 rpm

See the other specs in my previous post.

Why even bother with the base model? The GS is all you will ever need. I don't know many people who can handle this power and torque. Forget about even getting to anything greater than 60% of its handling capability. The handling is superb, interior ho hum as usual and will hand, the touch me and I'll burn your wallet M3, its knockers every time. And I love the M3. In my opinion, BMW lost the script for M3 when they went from an incredible handling compact sedan/coupe with their priceless 6 cylinders of the 90s to trying to be a 'vette killer. Not with their porky 3700 lbs, 4.0L V8. The measly 295 lb torque is done at 3900 rpm and it's all down hill from there.

If you have seen the torque curve of a 'vette, it's a flat line from 1000 to 5500 rpm. The chevy small block V8 isn't called the 'Torque Monster' for nothing. It's insane and if you don't respect it, it will kill you. Once you put a 6-speed manual 'vette thru its paces, the only thing that satisfies after that, is the old raw Porsche 930. Money no bar, the choice really is a no brainer, for me at least. Good luck catching me with your M3. You're never catching my GS, not in a straight line and not in a curve.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 07:42   #1197
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Thanks for the pics. Its a great looking 'Stang. I love the color of seats.

If you don't mind sharing, what was the OTD and what variant is this? You can pm me if you don't wanna share here.
The color of the interiors is drool worthy. He got the car OTD for 28500. What do you think of that value?
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Old 23rd August 2012, 09:08   #1198
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@chevelle,

Sorry, the take on GS was just my personal take. For your better half, a base corvette will more than suffice. The beauty of these cars is, how docile they're when not being pushed. If you're looking at Corvettes, wait for the right deal and don't compromise. It's too big a commitment to feel bad about later, and you know you'll be thinking about the what ifs. Just hang in there.

@ Maddy,

That OTR sounds about right for the 'Stang. Congrats to your buddy again.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 16:04   #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
Base M3 Price: $60,000

Curb Wt: 3700 lbs
Torque: 295 ft-lbs. @ 3900 rpm
Horsepower: 414 hp @ 8300 rpm

Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 67.7
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 65.9
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.90
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.90


Corvette Base Price $50,000

Curb weight: 3208 lbs.
Torque: 424 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 430 hp @ 5900 rpm

Corvette Grand Sport Price $56,000

Curb weight: 3311 lbs.
Torque: 424 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 430 hp @ 5900 rpm

See the other specs in my previous post.

Why even bother with the base model? The GS is all you will ever need. I don't know many people who can handle this power and torque. Forget about even getting to anything greater than 60% of its handling capability. The handling is superb, interior ho hum as usual and will hand, the touch me and I'll burn your wallet M3, its knockers every time. And I love the M3. In my opinion, BMW lost the script for M3 when they went from an incredible handling compact sedan/coupe with their priceless 6 cylinders of the 90s to trying to be a 'vette killer. Not with their porky 3700 lbs, 4.0L V8. The measly 295 lb torque is done at 3900 rpm and it's all down hill from there.

If you have seen the torque curve of a 'vette, it's a flat line from 1000 to 5500 rpm. The chevy small block V8 isn't called the 'Torque Monster' for nothing. It's insane and if you don't respect it, it will kill you. Once you put a 6-speed manual 'vette thru its paces, the only thing that satisfies after that, is the old raw Porsche 930. Money no bar, the choice really is a no brainer, for me at least. Good luck catching me with your M3. You're never catching my GS, not in a straight line and not in a curve.
I agree 100%. I was about the dig up the facts and write something similar.

One more point to note in the M3 v/s 'vette debate is tthe mpg.
'vette gets around 25+ mpg on the highway
You'l be lucky if you get 20 with the M3.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 21:03   #1200
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Base M3 Price: $60,000

Corvette Base Price $50,000

Corvette Grand Sport Price $56,000

Why even bother with the base model? The GS is all you will ever need. I don't know many people who can handle this power and torque. Forget about even getting to anything greater than 60% of its handling capability. The handling is superb, interior ho hum as usual and will hand, the touch me and I'll burn your wallet M3, its knockers every time. And I love the M3. In my opinion, BMW lost the script for M3 when they went from an incredible handling compact sedan/coupe with their priceless 6 cylinders of the 90s to trying to be a 'vette killer. Not with their porky 3700 lbs, 4.0L V8. The measly 295 lb torque is done at 3900 rpm and it's all down hill from there.

If you have seen the torque curve of a 'vette, it's a flat line from 1000 to 5500 rpm. The chevy small block V8 isn't called the 'Torque Monster' for nothing. It's insane and if you don't respect it, it will kill you. Once you put a 6-speed manual 'vette thru its paces, the only thing that satisfies after that, is the old raw Porsche 930. Money no bar, the choice really is a no brainer, for me at least. Good luck catching me with your M3. You're never catching my GS, not in a straight line and not in a curve.
Thanks for the info. I didn't knew m3 was like $60k base. I thought it was more like $48k-$50k. As such m3s are very hard to find in market and potential maintenance nightmare will make me think twice no matter how FTD it is.

I agree corvette will be faster. But, neither me nor my wife are pro drivers. For us, slalom and skid pad doesn't hold much value in terms of daily use. I did drove 'Vette and due to torque, in day to day use, you can easily shift at ~2500 rpm and get good mileage while maintaining street legal speeds. At that point, both 'Vette and M3 will be more than enough to cater to our needs. So a second here or there won't matter much to us anyway. And finally all i would say is, it depends on driver and you must be knowing that.

As for GS and Base, can't find many GS in my budget (<$40k OTD). The ones i can find are Base with 1LT/2LT/3LT.

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The color of the interiors is drool worthy. He got the car OTD for 28500. What do you think of that value?
That is a great price. Is this v6 Premium? I am getting quotes of Camaro 1LT at $30k plus tax and that too without those colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
@chevelle,

If you're looking at Corvettes, wait for the right deal and don't compromise. It's too big a commitment to feel bad about later, and you know you'll be thinking about the what ifs. Just hang in there.
I am waiting and waiting. That's what i have been doing for past couple of months. Have drove almost all cars in this price bracket but my heart still goes back to corvette all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
I agree 100%. I was about the dig up the facts and write something similar.

One more point to note in the M3 v/s 'vette debate is tthe mpg.
'vette gets around 25+ mpg on the highway
You'l be lucky if you get 20 with the M3.
The mpg and performance ratio is whats luring me toward 'Vette. M3 is not even in the picture. 335i because it is affordable and it gives similar mpg if not better.
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