Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd November 2005, 22:09   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_lover
i'll stick to the fact that Honda is way ahead of Chevrolet/GM in terms of engineering ...
its the technology that propels the Japs ahead of these american sportscars ..
as mentioned in the supercars thread ...one of the reasons supercars are titled so is because of their cutting edge technology that is something the Vette doesnt have man ...
am not saying that the z06 is that bad .. but look at what NSX can do with a 3.2L ..
and guess what ? despite the current performance stats of the Vette ..
arent we forgetting the fact that it only took the Vettes 15 years to catch the NSX ??

cheer..
How old are you...oh wait..you are still in fantacy land, and ignorant when you say honda nsx has more technology than a vette...ppl with track experience and owners of 911 Turbo S , F430 cant believe the technology in a vette and are deeming it better than their current ride and you here come along with this attidude which is set in the india mindset, oohh its a honda, has to be bloody good..



well nothing personal here, but until you get a chance to drive them..you comments mean squot, I will have my vette any day of the week and twice on saturday sunday over some N . S . X

and you comments Z06 is not that bad..is hilarious considering nothing i mean nothing can touch it until money is no object and even then a mere 2 or 3 cars...thats called technology...handling crisper than anything, pull..faster than anything..what else do you need...oh wait NAV, heated seats..memory seats...i mean how many times I have state overall package and technology of the Z06 is unbeatable..

I can respect someone else's ideas but when they are founded, here the idea that american cars are behind japs does not apply to the vette..vette is a legend..NSX to come to that level will need a lot of time and well actual racing victories in the global arena...
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 22:15   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
I think you are missing a point here. The vette has been in developement for half and century, and has become a wonderful sportscar after it went through 6 transformations( avatars if you like). The NSX, though, has never had a thorough redesign. They got it right the first time. And I think that is simply awesome for a company that never made any high performance car before that. I think yo should acknowledge Honda for getting it right the first time.

I think both are wonderful performance machines, the vette starting as a boulevard cruiser packed with muscle and jelly suspension and evolving through the stingrays, C4, C5 and C6 into a real athlete with excellent handling, while the NSX took a more clinical approach to performance motoring, right from the beginning.
come one man...its not about getting it right the first time..you are comparing times in the 50s when even ferraris were junk machines..nsx came and leap frogged with their technology but never could catch up to the vette...thats a fact..and ppl who have seen the topgear video and say the suspension is leafsprings so its crap are kidding themselves..it is far superior, lighter than the 911 suspension..I have riden in a 911S and its back breaking..not vette like how that fool showed it in the video..vette being track centric is also a highway cruiser which speaks a lot about the suspension technology and lets not get into the brakes of the Z06 which performed better than the Enzo and I believe the CGT as well(I will check on that)...its the perception which i dont get in most indian mentalities.."jap - gotta be good thing" ...surely everyday cars they make are excellent, anyday better than most american cars..but exceptions are there when americans have everyone else beat..and the vette is one of the them...

do you know the vette convertible won the competiton with the 911s Cab in a german mag..now thats something..and everyone knows the german car mags come out with the world 0-60, breaking numbers on planet earth..

Last edited by 1Day : 2nd November 2005 at 22:18.
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 22:20   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
I dont think anyone has become personal yet, its just a very heated argument, thats all.


exactly, I thought online car communities are exactly for that..argue on which one is better within reason...
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 01:10   #34
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sweden (stockholm)
Posts: 50
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

well vette is still primitive compared to 911 and other european rival and ofcourse nsx too.
face the fact 1day.
vette maybe better in terms of power but suspension is still leaf springs it is not hi tech, please vette cannot be excellent and still be cheap. its interior is horrible than a HM car and body work please dont get me started its bumper color never matches the body color.
ashran2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 02:05   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashran2
well vette is still primitive compared to 911 and other european rival and ofcourse nsx too.
face the fact 1day.
vette maybe better in terms of power but suspension is still leaf springs it is not hi tech, please vette cannot be excellent and still be cheap. its interior is horrible than a HM car and body work please dont get me started its bumper color never matches the body color.

wait let me pinch myself..it still doesnt hurt..you are talking like a kid man..come on...interior worse than a HM, 911 is bland as well..I am not saying vette is better, but just that 911 is crap too..now NSX is just beyound bad...and comparable to my ambi in the 80s..leafsprings..go read some books..and then come and talk to me about suspension..I live in chicago one of the worst roads around..and 911 broke my back and vette just was not that bad..plus the suspension quality and technology speaks for itself when a challenging track like the ring is tackled with ease by the monster called Z06...the reason GM can price the car less is..because they make more volume and even then porsche's value doesnt justify...another is because GM is not trying to get every single penny out of a name..you really think what you get from 911 or NSX is worth the money then please donate some money cuz it aint soo...porsche today has the biggest margin's in the industry and is all because of ppl with blind fate..I doubt I will ever own a porsche since I will rather have the Z06 or the up coming blue devil (CGT competitor) over even the GT2...else I woudl go for the F430 and gallardo and murcielago cuz now you are talking looks along with the goods...CGT is probably the only car I think I would ever want to own from the porsche sports car stable..

man which century are you talking about bumper color doesnt match...this is the longest shot i have ever seen to make a car look bad..cuz you cant find faults..do you know I happen to have a very good friend with a body shop who told me, that he has seen equal numbers of bad paint job from porsche as from chevy...which does say much about porsche as well...the only good thing about the porsche is the leather quality other than that the porsche are over priced machinery with a practically blind fan following...

I love porsche's before I really saw what vettes are capable of..and I choose a vette over the 911, I had a chance to buy a 911 but didnt because I wanted to save some money and get a faster better car...so I got the vette...

you cant make a logical person agree with this blind fate thing that vette tech is low...its just BS and more BS..anb laughable at best..
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 03:04   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
ported_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 2,391
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Ok, so we really aren't getting anywhere.

1Day, the problem is, this is starting to look like a page straight out of www.corvetteforums.com, where things like "monster Z06", "better braking than CGT", "Enzo contender for $400K less", crop up very frequently. Obviously, there, every other attempt at a reasonably decent sports car is feeble no matter what, and if it costs more than the 'Vette, then the Lord be damned. The only thing that can counter this is a page out of Rennteam.com or Rennlist.com or Honda-tech.com, where everybody knows just how bad the other car's paintjob is, or how drab the interiors are.

The issue really is , whether we understand what it is the competitor stands for. I never denied the Z06s achievements on the track, and I applaud them for coming a long way from being just muscle cars, to discreet sportscars. Let us also realise, that GM is primarily a mass manufacturer, who is looking to sell cars at a volume, same so with the Corvette. A lot of Americans will buy the new Vette too, and they will sell a lot more than the 911s, anyday. Which is why, it will be a lot cheaper than the 911s too. Porsche is a niche sports' car manufacturer, who do not have other volume cars to fall back on. They do make maximum profits per car than any other company in the world, which is why they manage to stay independent, which is a smart thing to do. If GM would take a leaf out of Porsche's notebook and learn to make a good deal of money too, they wouldn't be at the risk of losing their throne to the much harder-working Japanese.

Now let's come to the engineering aspect. I am yet to dwell into the details, but GM has managed to improve the Vette a lot. It does surprise people inspite of it's leafsprings, and I have said so in my earlier posts. Now speaking of the "crap 911" as you call it, it is pretty easy to figure out that when you have an engine hanging out aft of the rear axle, theoretically a car shoudn't handle, and should only do donughts. But, instead they stuck with their crazy concept, put so much research and development in to the vehicle dynamics of a 911, that it does handle darn well, well enough to be as fast as the Z06 around the NS, with a lighter, smaller displacement engine, with a lesser power output. Some of them do it with a 7.0L V8 up front, some of them do it with a 3.6L flat-six way at the back. The ones who do it the best, are the ones with a 2.6L V8 making 360PS @ 10,500rpm, and I'm talking about the Radical SR8, the current king of the ring. Either ways, we must think twice before we call the other car "crap", because not everybody buys the pure "Proud to be American" line.

R&T, an American mag, agrees in a comparo with the Vette and the 911, that the Vette is an easier car to go faster in, but isn't as rewarding a drive as the 911. Besides, R&T quotes the 997 to have better braking than the Enzo, so I wonder where you got your info about the Vette from.

I would call that quite an achievement. Wouldn't you? That is what they charge such a premium for. Sure, reliability is the odd issue with Porsche too, and every other manufacturer in the world, but they do hold up pretty well after thousand's of kms. If the C6 Vettes can do that, kudos to them.

I'm off to sleep. Yawn....
ported_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 09:18   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Well, I never went off on you, mostly some dumb comments made not by you but by others, who were insistant on vette being inferior..

I like the 911, but I dont think its got what it takes to be priced like the way it is..

It is very very expensive to begin with...

every 911 looks the same with minor modifications, last I check 911s were being mass produced as well, atleast in 15000 numbers, which is only 1/2 as much or may be 40% of the corvette, now the price diff on similar products from 911 are almost 2x or 3x that of the vette, now I dont think it is worth it...Lambo and Ferrari have it for themselves cuz they are truely rare cars...made in very limited quantaties..

Also the forum you speak of is...pretty much what every other sports car forum has..but the corvetteforum community is very well balanced and are very old and seasoned people there with a lot of taste and experience behind the wheel..some of the best drag racers and one of the independed cup racers also reside there along with some of the finnest tuners available..so when they speak I listen...I am also a member there, and go by a diff name..

Also do you know the reason why 911 has a smaller engine and why viper and vette dont??? the reason is taxes, purely taxes, in europe the taxes on cars are determined from what engine size, which is not the case in US, so they dont have to make a 3.6L engine produce the amount of power it does...

I totaly get what 911 is about, but I personally think it has been over priced a wee-bit too much, it could do with atleast less 20% value...I can accept a 10-20k premium competitor, but double and triple beats me...btw I love the way 911 handles though..I give the car that...very connected to the driver giving more feel..

your talk about the NBR lap time of a 911 GT3 RS a race inspired full on racer...to a highway comfort cruiser turned sports car? surely 911 GT RS had an awesome time..but again I told you, it had a lot better tires, and lets not forget a person with more than 10k laps on the ring vs the Juan who has may be 1k laps and was restricted by stock runcrap tires..now you tell me which seems to be a better made car? Put walter on the wheel of the vette with the stickys that come with RS and you still that 7:42.99 drop anywhere between 7-10secs which is a lot considering you will only be left with maybe 4-7secs diff to the best car every made..the CGT..(oh let me take that back, for me the 2nd best..i think pagani zonda F is the best)

Now you give m mag times and their comparo..but you tell me german mags have never really picked a non-german car over a german in a long time and especially in the 911S category but this time they did..obviously they see something in the new vettes, dont you think?

Reliability..is about the same..I have heard people say I wouldnt want to own a ferrari/porsche/lambo out of warranty so I really wouldnt compare it there..

Also you compare SR8 and call it the current king, but really we are talking about road going cars here..I wouldnt bring a car like radical in the picture..

And I am not at all Proud to be american buyer from any angle..I hate american cars myself..the only car I really have thought being worthy of my time is viper and the vette..well I have driven both and I am sorry I am left with only 1 and you know which one it is..the viper was too raw for me and just not a package I was looking for...viper being a great car is only a weekend only toy car where as the vette seemed to be more of a daily driver like the 911..anyhow..I currently own a jap in my stable and am looking forward for another jap the GTR, but that doesnt mean I think less of the vette..as far as what I have seen I can tell you the vette does, what it does best in the category...

btw my Velocity Yellow Corvette was off the line yesterday and I cant wait to pick it up...



and someday may be get the Z06 and GTR to fit in my stable...and hence the name 1Day

And now tell me what do you think of 911 E8TR as the license plate....haha!! jk...I was thinking of KILR RYD as the license plate for this car??

Last edited by 1Day : 3rd November 2005 at 09:31.
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 14:47   #38
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sweden (stockholm)
Posts: 50
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

like i said they they are totally different kind of cars and they appeal to a different kind of customers and about nsx interior being bad it is a very driver oriented interior but it is very old now but the fit and finish is perfect as is the hand stiched leather and there are stil 1991 nsx without any rattles,

IMHO corvette cannot be the best car and still be a lot cheaper than 911 and nsx.
it is inferior in some area and better in some.

btw which 911 was it that broke your back all the 911 after 996 all of them had adjustable suspension at least here in europe.
also it was nsx party piece to be great car on b roads and at the same time be great on tracks, my dad found the car amazing for the small roads of european cities and also for the great autobahns.
imho i do agree the nsx is overpriced if you compare that you could get lot of power in other cars but you cannot beat the fact that it is mid-engined handmade and made in japan.

Last edited by ashran2 : 3rd November 2005 at 14:48.
ashran2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 20:10   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashran2
like i said they they are totally different kind of cars and they appeal to a different kind of customers
I dont think so

Quote:
and about nsx interior being bad it is a very driver oriented interior but it is very old now but the fit and finish is perfect as is the hand stiched leather and there are stil 1991 nsx without any rattles
come to true bumpy and trashy roads in america and then show me that rattle less car you talking about...no car is without rattle..

Quote:
IMHO corvette cannot be the best car and still be a lot cheaper than 911 and nsx.
it is inferior in some area and better in some.
I agree to a certain extent..i never said 911 is not superior to the vette in certain areas but in most the vette wins and that is showing in rag tests...
also its this price is higher, so the product ought to be better mentality that I dont get..GM can share the price with a lot of different products and hence the lower price...its got very little if anything to do with lesser quality to 911...

Quote:
btw which 911 was it that broke your back all the 911 after 996 all of them had adjustable suspension at least here in europe.
911S 997..it has much harsher for daily driving..very bumpy in my opinion..

Quote:
also it was nsx party piece to be great car on b roads and at the same time be great on tracks, my dad found the car amazing for the small roads of european cities and also for the great autobahns.
for a car to be deemed good on the b roads as well as on the autobahn it needs to have creature comforts which are missing in nsx i feel..i just dont get those interiors..the world has moved into a different century and nsx is sitting still (as far as interiors are concered)

Quote:
imho i do agree the nsx is overpriced if you compare that you could get lot of power in other cars but you cannot beat the fact that it is mid-engined handmade and made in japan.
you know hand made stuff is all to get you to shell more money isnt it?? until you are truely looking at RR and Maybach and Pagani etc..

anyhow I am typical buyer who is cross shopping vette and 911..i picked the vette and so are many ppl who have the means atleast 10x mine..so ppl who wanna go fast and show it off at the same time are picking 911 and ppl who dont care about the showing bit are picking the vette and as for me i dont fall in either cuz i would like to show the car i am driving but i really didnt want to stretch my means + i found a better car
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 21:24   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sweden (stockholm)
Posts: 50
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

well it maybe popular in USA.

but try convincing european people as to why vette is a better car than european sports cars & you will end up frustrated.


oh back to the topic

lexus way to go.
they needed halo car, and now they got one.
ashran2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pete's 500bhp Octavia RS !!!! vivekji05 Modifications & Accessories 295 20th March 2010 11:43
Finally: Lexus LF-A production version coming to Tokyo AyAn! The International Automotive Scene 3 28th March 2009 17:13
2008 CLK63 AMG 500bhp sujaylahiri The International Automotive Scene 19 17th April 2007 22:01
Passing of a Giant - Hummer H1 goes out of production heelntoe The International Automotive Scene 13 20th July 2006 18:14
Bugatti 16/4 Veyron goes into Production!! Stratos The International Automotive Scene 17 5th November 2005 17:51


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:32.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks