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Old 5th June 2011, 00:19   #16
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
They will be turbocharged; twin turbos. It is quite possible that they will extract more power out of those 1.6l engines than they do with the 2.4 V8s. It is pretty obvious that you have only got involved in F1 pretty recently as during the turbo era, 1.6l qualifying engines routinely produced 1500 hp at around 12,000 RPM, and race engines produced around 600-900 horsepower. Surely they have learnt a lot since then to produce even more.


LOL. Ludacris.




The average enthusiast doesn't know the difference between natural aspiration and forced induction. Nor would an average enthusiast care about the engine itself.
I am just 20 years old. The turbo charged era ended even before I was born. But I do know what beasts those engines where! Thing is, there is no mention of turbocharging the engines. Surely turbo charging can pull as much power. Still, I am a bit apprehensive about this change!

Last edited by scuderiamania : 5th June 2011 at 00:25.
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Old 5th June 2011, 00:29   #17
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

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Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
Your idea sounds good, but squeezing out 1500 BHP from a 1.6L Turbo charged engine is going to be a problem.
Was just casually speaking about the power output.
The 80's turbocharged engines had boost pressure limited to 2.5 bar for the race and Honda with its RA168E turbo V6 produced 685 hp at 12500 rpm. I am pretty sure after 30 years of evolution, they will be able to churn out atleast a 1000 hp. About ditching the wings, TC, it is never going to happen though that will be one amazing race to watch.
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Old 5th June 2011, 01:08   #18
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

Traction control is gone since ages

I am also not a pro but somehow I feel F1 is not exciting as it used be in 1998 to 2002. I know it was all the more exciting during Senna's time

There are lot of restrictions and aerodynamics is the only area left to exploited but that also has many restrictions

My personal opinion is restrict aero development, allow engine development and allow a tyre war

That will make F1 surely more exciting for me
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Old 5th June 2011, 01:48   #19
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

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Originally Posted by cruiser@0523 View Post
Was just casually speaking about the power output.
The 80's turbocharged engines had boost pressure limited to 2.5 bar for the race and Honda with its RA168E turbo V6 produced 685 hp at 12500 rpm. I am pretty sure after 30 years of evolution, they will be able to churn out atleast a 1000 hp. About ditching the wings, TC, it is never going to happen though that will be one amazing race to watch.
The RA168E was boost-limited to 2.5bar. Remember the previous years when the boost-limit was 3bar and 4bar respectively. It will be interesting to see what the limits are this time, if the formula gets implemented.
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Old 5th June 2011, 09:16   #20
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

Its such a pity, really. 4 cylinder - turbo charged engines. Ferrari have made it clear that they will not be a part of F1 if those rules imposed. Keep in mind that Ferrari does not make a 4 cylinder engines currently and the last turbo charged Ferrari was the F40 from late 80's.

Personally, Its a shame to see F1 move from cutting edge of automotive technology to cost - cutting edge of automotive technology.
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Old 5th June 2011, 10:13   #21
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

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Originally Posted by azeemhafiz View Post
Its such a pity, really. 4 cylinder - turbo charged engines. Ferrari have made it clear that they will not be a part of F1 if those rules imposed. Keep in mind that Ferrari does not make a 4 cylinder engines currently and the last turbo charged Ferrari was the F40 from late 80's.

Personally, Its a shame to see F1 move from cutting edge of automotive technology to cost - cutting edge of automotive technology.
The new 1.6 turbo engine can also be cutting edge if needed. It all depends how much liberty the engine manufacturers have, what are the rules set by FIA

If you go to see the current 2.4 L engines are pretty small comparing engines in many super cars. But still the 2.4's develop around 750 odd HP. There would have been more improvement if there was no engine freeze, no restriction on testing and development, no budget cap, no refueling ban

The 2.4 L engines were introduced in 2006. By 2007 many engines were claiming to reach 20000 rpm and had much more power then they had at the start.

If given a free hand, F1 teams can turnn the 1.6 turbo engines into monsters, but that is not likely to happen as FIA wants F1 to become environment
friendly, One way FIA wants engine which are more fuel efficient and on the other hand there are more and more tracks with night race. We all know what kind of power is needed to light up a whole race track. This is also not helping the carbon footprint of F1

Every year new tracks are introduced. All that construction work is also not helping the environment and plus these new tracks are quiet the same
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Old 5th June 2011, 10:48   #22
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

With the amount of resources at their disposal, F1 engine manufacturers are the only ones who can take a stiff challenge and meet them too. Will be good for engine tech by itself.

Dont you think TC, wings et all also add to safety aspect which made it less exciting but still made the race safer? Its excitement for spectators vs safety of the drivers.
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Old 5th June 2011, 22:50   #23
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

Lets face it - it is the regulations imposed by FiA that pushes engineers to the cutting edge of automobile development in F1. And F1 without the mad tech race is not F1 anymore.

We had double diffusers last year, blown diffusers this year. V10s a couple of years back, and V8s last year - and the V8s now produce much more power than the V10s.

So I think 1.6 litre 4 cyl turbo engines will be good for F1 - and the industry as ways to produce more power from lesser capacities would be explored - which otherwise engineers would have no motivation to do. Why is it important ? - for F1 to remain relevant in the next century. If they hold not tight to V8s it is just a matter of time when it would be forced to fold up.

So 1.6 litre turbos..bring em on I say!!

Drive on,
Shibu
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Old 5th June 2011, 23:20   #24
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

V6/V8 Hybrid engines would do better PR than 1.6 cylinder turbos.
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Old 5th June 2011, 23:41   #25
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

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Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
Lets face it - it is the regulations imposed by FiA that pushes engineers to the cutting edge of automobile development in F1. And F1 without the mad tech race is not F1 anymore.

We had double diffusers last year, blown diffusers this year. V10s a couple of years back, and V8s last year - and the V8s now produce much more power than the V10s.

So I think 1.6 litre 4 cyl turbo engines will be good for F1 - and the industry as ways to produce more power from lesser capacities would be explored - which otherwise engineers would have no motivation to do. Why is it important ? - for F1 to remain relevant in the next century. If they hold not tight to V8s it is just a matter of time when it would be forced to fold up.

So 1.6 litre turbos..bring em on I say!!

Drive on,
Shibu
The problem now a days is FIA is not allowing any liberty for engineer to show what they can achieve
Only area to play is aerodynamics which also has many restrictions. Not sure how is that also helping with road car technology. There were even talks to have a standard KERS system for all cars. As it is all engines are at par with the development freeze

In 2005, which was the last year for V10 engines, the engine had to last 3 or 2 races if i am not wrong. So as per the rule the teams would have new engines every 2nd or 3rd race. This was different from what we have today i.e. teams can use 7 or 8 engines in total for a season. In 2005, for the last GP, teams had to use a new engine as per the rule and since it had to last only one race weekend, some engines were developing close to 1000 HP.
So V8's of today are not even close to what V10s were. This is mainly due to the fact that no engine development is allowed by FIA. I think it was a Honda engine.
BMW engines were considered to be the best V10 engine of that time.

Last edited by rikhav : 5th June 2011 at 23:43.
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Old 6th June 2011, 12:25   #26
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

Why are they so obsessed with engines?
If the FIA wanted to take a serious step in cutting costs, they would ban wind tunnels.

Teams are running their wind tunnels 24hrs a day in 3 shifts!
What a waste, barely any transfer to road cars and to top it all off it reduces overtaking!

Anyone here think the same? I'm absolutely stumped as to why nobody talks aero reduction.
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Old 6th June 2011, 12:44   #27
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Why are they so obsessed with engines?
If the FIA wanted to take a serious step in cutting costs, they would ban wind tunnels.

Teams are running their wind tunnels 24hrs a day in 3 shifts!
What a waste, barely any transfer to road cars and to top it all off it reduces overtaking!

Anyone here think the same? I'm absolutely stumped as to why nobody talks aero reduction.
I agree with you mate. Take out not the DRS but also all other aero-aids. That will not only reduce costs but also "separate men from the boys"!

I want to see the good old days when pros would powerslide around corners to go past opponents!!
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Old 6th June 2011, 14:00   #28
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

^agreed Ban wind tunnels cause all the new super cars look alike

If all cars have the same aero kit it will look like the A1 Grand Prix. The pit strategies should be more flexible with more tyre options.

If F1 reinstates small engine + Turbo era it will have a direct impact on the car manufacturer fraternity and we will see more small reliable turbo engines.
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Old 6th June 2011, 14:54   #29
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

1.6 turbo limited to 12500 rpm - mama mia. I guess we are looking at 1000+ bhp.

If the Prancing Horse is not for it, then that is it. They can rave and rant, but all know the glamour is only from Ferrari, and without then F1 circus is dead as a dodo.

However, these will be very expensive to develop and maintain. Remember the 1.5 V6 turbo of Honda running on pure Toluene from not so long ago.
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Old 6th June 2011, 15:04   #30
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Default Re: 1.6litre engines revving only 12000rpm in F1 cars from 2013!

From Pinnacle of Motorsports to what, sewage canal?

Already the GP2 guys are only 6-8 seconds behind the slowest F1 car and now this!

If F1 wants to save money for new teams to maintain a level play and also promote environment friendly car... Fix the budget & engine emission norms and leave the teams alone to do what it takes to win. You will see innovation! Until then, its DRS today and then it will be some crap like 1.6 Litre V4 tomorrow!

Last edited by anachronix : 6th June 2011 at 15:07.
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