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Old 16th April 2012, 12:23   #61
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
The 2012 season is proving to be the best season in the very recent times!

Star of the race: Pirelli PZero

The track looked like a war zone with all those marbles from the Pirellis. Drivers even with a fresh set of tires, going off the racing line to overtake someone would mean you pick up some of those dirty marbles and start losing the grip on the Pirellis. Total chaos and its Pirelli totally underperforming in their 2nd year in F1! The situation does help witness a lot of overtaking, but it doesnt change the fact that the Pirellis are the worst set of tires F1 fraternity has ever witnessed!
Disagree completely.

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Originally Posted by PuntoMania View Post
I prefer these Pirelli tyres any day of the year to the Bridgestone tyres of a few years ago. I seem to remember those tyres had absolutely no degradation and at times the tyres just seemed to go on and on and on. Not good for racing.

The marbles are a big problem but I think its great that there is a performance drop off in these tyres which means we see a lot of action between cars.

The other big, and perhaps the main drawback of the Pirellis are the fact that they work optimally in a very narrow range of operating temperature, which forces drivers to become extra conservative at times.

They're on the right track though


They are not under-performing. They have been designed that way, and I surely am glad about it. They work well for a certain amount of laps and then fall off drastically. If it were the BS era, you probably would have seen the long train behind Kimi till the end of the race. Basically these tyres punish you more for strategic errors. I like that.

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Great drive from Rosberg, he had total control of the race all the time. Even without JB's error in the pitstop, he had no chance of catching Rosberg. It was funny when Mclaren pitwall was lying to JB about the Mclaren being 0.7s quicker than the Mercedes before his final pitstop while it was the other way around! All Nico had to do was take care of his tires and maintain the gap!
I don't think they were lying. Those radio transmissions are delayed so by the time we heard it Rosberg was going faster. The Mercs are still heavy on their tyres. It would have made for an interesting battle if not for JB's pitstop blunder.

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Looks like you guys missed this in the race
I think Star Sports had taken a break when this happenned. Thanks for this. That was dangerous.
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Old 16th April 2012, 13:25   #62
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

BTW, Three races, Three different champions leaders. Not bad.
First race: Button
Second Race: Alonso
Third race: Hamilton.

Who's next?
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Old 16th April 2012, 13:55   #63
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Truly amazing race !! It was a literal dogfight for McLarens. It would have been a different show if Jense did not have traffic to contend with. Rosberg is not known to defend well. But a great victory for him anyways .

What I am worried is that McLaren are making too many mistakes on the pits, what is Mr.Sam Michael doing as director of trackside ops ???
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Old 16th April 2012, 14:45   #64
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Some more wheel to wheel action from yesterday.

F1 China GP 2012 - Grosjean vs Maldonado - Video Dailymotion
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Old 16th April 2012, 16:54   #65
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Super race!

I would rate this as a calculative win for Mercedes. Button' good pit stop would have made things interesting. Those short shifts by Rosberg and constant reminders on how to save what till the last lap of race shows brilliance of Mercedes Team on how to win with not a competitive car. For someone like M.Schumacher, this would have been a breeze.

Apart from that, it was one of the best races. So much overtaking etc. Really hate Pirelli' for those tire marbles, a race without that would have been 100% more exciting.

A heartbreak for Michael Schumacher. The emotions of the left front mechanic was understandable, the plead, the slams on the pit lane to stop Michael from leaving but ....

P.S - Struggling Vettel, I'm loving it.

Last edited by F50 : 16th April 2012 at 16:59.
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Old 16th April 2012, 19:14   #66
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by dkhatau View Post
any car on the pole has a chance to win the race so, and you are telling nico won by fluke??? whatever side you are at least show respect for the winner.
Did i say nico won by fluke?

The fact is he opened up a gap of 3 seconds earlier in the race which was not a huge gap vs what vettel does.

2nd point Mclaren did a early pit stop because they could not look after their tyres like nico, because mclaren was pushed at all times in braking areas and also for pace, so mclaren early pit stop again helped nico to pull off another few seconds gap.

I'm not saying nico did not deserve the win, i'm saying mercedes is not a complete dominating package, next race is a hot race, if they qualify anywhere between 2nd to 5th you'll see the result yourself
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Old 17th April 2012, 00:02   #67
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
Disagree completely.
Quote:
They are not under-performing. They have been designed that way, and I surely am glad about it. They work well for a certain amount of laps and then fall off drastically. If it were the BS era, you probably would have seen the long train behind Kimi till the end of the race. Basically these tyres punish you more for strategic errors. I like that.
In the Bridgestone Vs Michelin era there was more racing! Now all million dollar resources are spent on designing F1 cars and we get to hear all these...

Polesitter Lewis Hamilton expects 'massively tough' tyre wear situation in Malaysian Grand Prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Rosberg says victory in China was far from easy due to tyre management - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

High tyre degradation makes three-stop strategies likely - F1 Fanatic

Which other motorsport does talk so much about tires!? The tires should enable more hardcore racing rather than drivers taking the conservative route to win races! Its sad to see the way the whole world go behind seeing more artificial overtaking. The Pirelli tires are just another form of DRS in F1 and I am starting to hate it!

And when was the last time you have seen so much marbles or dirt on a track with less than 1 hour into racing on a Sunday.

Quote:
I don't think they were lying. Those radio transmissions are delayed so by the time we heard it Rosberg was going faster. The Mercs are still heavy on their tyres. It would have made for an interesting battle if not for JB's pitstop blunder.
Compare

Rosberg
-------
32 1:43.093
33 1:43.355
34 1:47.529 PIT
35 1:57.707
36 1:41.197
37 1:41.248
38 1:41.439
39 1:41.109
40 1:40.967
41 1:41.049
42 1:41.338

Button
-------
32 1:40.908
33 1:41.211
34 1:41.367
35 1:41.930
36 1:42.092
37 1:41.873
38 1:42.041
39 1:46.424 PIT
40 2:03.712
41 1:42.490
42 1:42.437

With fresh Pirellis if Rosberg was 0.7s down on Button's tires towards the end of life, you got to be kidding dude! And dont believe Slater, he has become too old to be doing commentry in F1
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Old 17th April 2012, 09:23   #68
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
In the Bridgestone Vs Michelin era there was more racing! Now all million dollar resources are spent on designing F1 cars and we get to hear all these...

Polesitter Lewis Hamilton expects 'massively tough' tyre wear situation in Malaysian Grand Prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Rosberg says victory in China was far from easy due to tyre management - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

High tyre degradation makes three-stop strategies likely - F1 Fanatic

Which other motorsport does talk so much about tires!? The tires should enable more hardcore racing rather than drivers taking the conservative route to win races! Its sad to see the way the whole world go behind seeing more artificial overtaking. The Pirelli tires are just another form of DRS in F1 and I am starting to hate it!
Umm, MotoGP, Nascar, Indycar (though I have seen these 2 only a couple of times) or every motorsport. And from what I have seen, tyre management was always a part of F1. Even in the old turbo era. Some cars/drivers did a better job and gained from it. Moreover, everybody has the same tyre. And 3 stoppers are nothing new for F1. In changing conditions you see a lot more. I don't think you should be blaming tyres for that. I think it's the rule that you have to use both type of tyres in a GP which is stupid. Teams should be free to use any of the 2 compounds they wish to use.

Or have one single super hard tyre and ban tyre warmers. Let the drivers use their skill to heat them up effectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
And when was the last time you have seen so much marbles or dirt on a track with less than 1 hour into racing on a Sunday.
Many, but I recall one clearly - Canada 2006. I remember it because Villeneuve crashed into the wall while lapping Ralf. Ralf didn't give up the racing line and JV tried to go off line to get by him.

Last edited by asr245 : 17th April 2012 at 09:34.
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Old 17th April 2012, 13:16   #69
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Rubber dust is OK, not marbles causing cars to skid. Break an old ball bearing, put the balls on the ground and try walking on them.
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Old 17th April 2012, 14:03   #70
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
In the Bridgestone Vs Michelin era there was more racing! Now all million dollar resources are spent on designing F1 cars and we get to hear all these...

Polesitter Lewis Hamilton expects 'massively tough' tyre wear situation in Malaysian Grand Prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Rosberg says victory in China was far from easy due to tyre management - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

High tyre degradation makes three-stop strategies likely - F1 Fanatic

Which other motorsport does talk so much about tires!? The tires should enable more hardcore racing rather than drivers taking the conservative route to win races! Its sad to see the way the whole world go behind seeing more artificial overtaking. The Pirelli tires are just another form of DRS in F1 and I am starting to hate it!

And when was the last time you have seen so much marbles or dirt on a track with less than 1 hour into racing on a Sunday.
In the Michelin vs Bridgestone era, there was far more 'talk' about tyres than there is now. Back then the main differentiator between teams was the tyres. Michelin would do well at some tracks, and Bridgestone on others.

I dont know how you came to the conclusion that this year the emphasis on tyres is more.

Infact, the entire 2003 season was shrouded in controversy since Michelin shod teams were using tyres which gave them an illegal advantage up until Monza. In all the years of the Michelin Bridgestone rivalry, at many occasions races became foregone conclusions because the Michelins were really strong on some tracks and Bridgestone was really strong on others.

Now that we have only one brand of tyre, much of the emphasis has shifted back to the teams and drivers, which is where it should be. Tyre management is a different issue altogether, and is one that is present in every form of motorsport.
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Old 17th April 2012, 16:18   #71
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Tyre wear as-is is ok, but you could see chunks of rubber flying and the whole track looked like a kuccha road. Imagine if you had rain and someone wants to overtake without taking the racing line .......disaster. It would be akin to driving over ball bearings.
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Old 17th April 2012, 16:48   #72
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgh View Post
Rubber dust is OK, not marbles causing cars to skid. Break an old ball bearing, put the balls on the ground and try walking on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by polopm View Post
Tyre wear as-is is ok, but you could see chunks of rubber flying and the whole track looked like a kuccha road. Imagine if you had rain and someone wants to overtake without taking the racing line .......disaster. It would be akin to driving over ball bearings.
Such things happened in BS/Michelin days too. Nothing new. Some circuits are harder on the tyres than others.
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Old 18th April 2012, 21:03   #73
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Chinese Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
Umm, MotoGP, Nascar, Indycar (though I have seen these 2 only a couple of times) or every motorsport. And from what I have seen, tyre management was always a part of F1. Even in the old turbo era. Some cars/drivers did a better job and gained from it. Moreover, everybody has the same tyre. And 3 stoppers are nothing new for F1. In changing conditions you see a lot more. I don't think you should be blaming tyres for that. I think it's the rule that you have to use both type of tyres in a GP which is stupid. Teams should be free to use any of the 2 compounds they wish to use.

Or have one single super hard tyre and ban tyre warmers. Let the drivers use their skill to heat them up effectively.
Yes, all motorsport events uses tires and you will find news on them. Thats not what I was talking about.

"I saved the tires blah blah... for the win" is absurd for me to hear in Formula1.

Ban tire warmers!? Cold tires and fast cars are good recipe for disaster

Quote:
Many, but I recall one clearly - Canada 2006. I remember it because Villeneuve crashed into the wall while lapping Ralf. Ralf didn't give up the racing line and JV tried to go off line to get by him.
Something that happened back in 2006...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PuntoMania View Post
In the Michelin vs Bridgestone era, there was far more 'talk' about tyres than there is now. Back then the main differentiator between teams was the tyres. Michelin would do well at some tracks, and Bridgestone on others.

I dont know how you came to the conclusion that this year the emphasis on tyres is more.
Not just this year mate, from the time Pirelli has come back into F1! I was expecting them to build less durable tires but not something breaks up and fills the track with marbles.
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Old 19th April 2012, 11:19   #74
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
"I saved the tires blah blah... for the win" is absurd for me to hear in Formula1.
Same goes for engines. I am sure you have heard "we turned down the revs to save the engine" stuff a lot. Similar things were present in 80s too when drivers either slowed down or ran out of fuel.

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Ban tire warmers!? Cold tires and fast cars are good recipe for disaster
The best drivers in the world being paid multi-million $$ cannot warm up the tyres on their own?

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Something that happened back in 2006...
Like I said, I remember that because of the crash (and probably because JV was whining about it). Otherwise there's nothing new to it.

Anyway, I have had enough of this. I prefer these Pirelli's over the BS from the past.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 16:08   #75
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Well, Schumacher's recent comments with regards to the Pirellis were quite revealing, he has mentioned that drivers are not pushing to their limits and at most times are driving at only 60-70% capacity of the car because of the tyres being over sensitive somewhat like driving behind a Safety car . If this is the case I think Anachronix was definitely correct about the Pirellis not being upto the mark.

I think most people like the fact that the Pirellis degrade which leads to differential speeds for different drivers, but no racing fan would appreciate it if a racing driver is unable to push his car to the limit at all.

I stand corrected on the issue. If there is anyone in the world who knows a thing or two about racing and especially tyres, its Schumacher. Bridgestone's engineers have often said in the past that MS's feel for tyre wear and performance is second to none in the history of F1. Also considering the fact that he has driven so many different types of F1 cars / tyres / under different regs that he must know what he's talking about.

Perhaps Pirelli needs to bring a tyre with similar degradation, but with better durability and resistance to a bit of abuse. We definitely should be seeing guys push the car to their limit in F1 rather than walking out of the car fresh.


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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
The best drivers in the world being paid multi-million $$ cannot warm up the tyres on their own?
Actually, tyre warmers are a critical part of the sport. The main reason Ayrton Senna lost control of his car at Tamburello was because his tyres were cold. Tyre warmers cannot be banned unless tyre technology has evolved so much that it maintains consistency even under hugely varying temperatures
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