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Old 12th May 2012, 20:38   #1
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Default F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

So we are in round 5 of 2012 Formula One season and already the most talked topic is Tires. Just in today's qualifying session I heard that word 20+ times. Now I have been watching F1 since 1999 but never came across so much attention on tires.
Do you think FIA has done the right thing here by instructing Pirelli's to make such fast degrading tires?

Thoughts Please.
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Old 12th May 2012, 22:25   #2
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

One Word - Its Silly! (Oh, well one liners are not allowed so let me explain my thoughts)

To be honest, i do agree with both the arguments. Yes, it has improved the entertainment aspect of the sport but do i like it? No. On the other hand, is it fair? Yes, every team has the same tires. Bottom line, people will always complain about something. But i do like to see some balance and a gradual fall-off rather than the the cliff-like fall-off.
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Old 13th May 2012, 08:08   #3
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

You can sign this petition if you think the tires are playing a major role these days irrespective of a good car and a driver in F1!

Petition Pirelli improve F1 tyres
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Old 13th May 2012, 13:13   #4
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

I think it's to the credit of a driver to be able to take good care of his tires. Good drivers can do that. Just like not banging into each other or blowing up the engine.
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Old 13th May 2012, 17:20   #5
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

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Originally Posted by smashnerd View Post
I think it's to the credit of a driver to be able to take good care of his tires. Good drivers can do that. Just like not banging into each other or blowing up the engine.
While I have had long arguments with a few here and have been defending these Pirelli's, saving tires in qualifying is non-sense. Qualifying is all about pushing everything to the limit (unlike in a race) and if drivers are afraid to do that because they need to save the tires for the race (top 10 cannot change tires AFAIK), then they should have separate qualifying tires.

Drivers not leaving pits in Q3 to save tires is non-sense. FIA needs to do something about this - and that does not include imposing a penalty on whosoever does not do a qualifying lap.


While someone has launched a petition, why not ask for wider tires and less downforce. Forgot: Tires hard enough to take 70laps of abuse and no pit-stops. Let them fight it out on the track.

Last edited by asr245 : 13th May 2012 at 17:26.
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Old 14th May 2012, 01:03   #6
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

For me the biggest reason tyre preservation has become so important is the rule of no refuelling. Before, cars ran lighter loads and hence the tyres did not face the same degradation as today.

If we make longer lasting tyres, it is a compromise in slower lap times. The quicker the tyres degrade, the better the grip and hence the better the lap time. The correct compromise is very difficult to come up with here
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Old 14th May 2012, 10:45   #7
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
You can sign this petition if you think the tires are playing a major role these days irrespective of a good car and a driver in F1!

Petition Pirelli improve F1 tyres
Lets clarify a few things.
Fans across the world want a show. A few, like us will always love F1 for its technical prowess and precision, but not the majority of fans.
They want overtaking and excitement. The snooze fest that F1 was becoming was causing the loss in viewership (Ref : BBC's partial pull out).

People signing this petition need to understand why KERS/DRS were introduced, refueling was banned etc etc
BECAUSE IT WAS NEEDED. Overtaking was at an all time low. Racing had to be improved. Global recession already had European venues complaining about high hosting fees.

Tires are the only direction to explore to make racing exciting again, with it being 100% fair with only 1 tire manufacturer. Unable to fathom the problem.
Every race is an unknown. Do you want to go back to a year like 2002 or 2011? With MS/SV getting pole, race win and fastest lap?

Why dont these guys start a petition to ban DRS instead?
(Which did not work in Spain!)
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:54   #8
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

Here's what I think they should do. Let the tyres be the way they are now but at least allow refueling. If teams like mercedes have issues with tyre degradation then they would be happy to run shorter stints with lighter cars.

I miss those days when Ross Brawn would change the race strategy mid-way through the race and force Schumi to do 10-12 qualifying pace laps. I am sure this would make things more interesting. Cars like the RB and Renault that are not too harsh on tyres can choose to do 1 less stop as compared to lets say Mercedes but the Merc will be able to run a lighter car and thus reduce the disadvantage.

How many fans would want to see Schumi, Alonso or Lewis doing qualy like laps during the race to make up for an extra stop??

I'm for it.
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Old 14th May 2012, 15:21   #9
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKap View Post
Here's what I think they should do. Let the tyres be the way they are now but at least allow refueling. If teams like mercedes have issues with tyre degradation then they would be happy to run shorter stints with lighter cars.

I miss those days when Ross Brawn would change the race strategy mid-way through the race and force Schumi to do 10-12 qualifying pace laps. I am sure this would make things more interesting. Cars like the RB and Renault that are not too harsh on tyres can choose to do 1 less stop as compared to lets say Mercedes but the Merc will be able to run a lighter car and thus reduce the disadvantage.

How many fans would want to see Schumi, Alonso or Lewis doing qualy like laps during the race to make up for an extra stop??

I'm for it.
I am also for it. I believe everyone wants to see this, flat out, wheel to wheel racing or say Racing. What we are seeing is more like driving skill.
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Old 14th May 2012, 15:35   #10
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

I think we have moved from one extreme ( the Bridgestone tyres of 2007-2008 which were too durable and produced boring races ) to the other extreme ( the Pirelli tyres which fall off a cliff ). I think there could be a happy middle ground between these extremes where we could have tyres that degrade and produce a show, but don't fall off a cliff and degrade gradually. Let's hope Pirelli can do that atleast by next year. I definitely don't want to go back to the Bridgestone days, but Pirelli can certainly improve their compounds a bit.
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Old 14th May 2012, 18:39   #11
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

I think FIA should bring back refueling like HKap mentioned. A full tank will kill a tyre faster. And I want to see strategies playing a bigger role on Sunday. There is nothing like a lighter car pounding quick laps in succession just before the pit-stop to get the jump in a race. I miss it now.

Also, why can't FIA scrap the rule which mandates the top 10 drivers to start on the tyres they qualified on? That is penalizing the top 10 for the race. Why do we need that? This will encourage the teams to go flat out for the grid position in Q3 as well.
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Old 14th May 2012, 19:51   #12
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
And I want to see strategies playing a bigger role on Sunday.
Why?

Do you prefer overtaking on strategy (like Maldonado overtaking Alonso yesterday) or on the track? If I weren't a Williams supporter, I would have wanted that overtaking maneuver out on the track rather than the pits. It's supposed to be a race between drivers and not strategists.

I can't fathom why people prefer on the limit racing with strategies deciding who ends up where.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
Also, why can't FIA scrap the rule which mandates the top 10 drivers to start on the tyres they qualified on? That is penalizing the top 10 for the race. Why do we need that? This will encourage the teams to go flat out for the grid position in Q3 as well.
I agree. With these tyres they are putting the top 10 on back foot. After 6th-7th, suddenly 11th is the most sought after position.

Last edited by asr245 : 14th May 2012 at 19:54.
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Old 14th May 2012, 20:27   #13
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
Why?

Do you prefer overtaking on strategy (like Maldonado overtaking Alonso yesterday) or on the track? If I weren't a Williams supporter, I would have wanted that overtaking maneuver out on the track rather than the pits. It's supposed to be a race between drivers and not strategists.

I can't fathom why people prefer on the limit racing with strategies deciding who ends up where.
I like both strategy based and wheel to wheel overtaking.

And that was a superb call by Williams to bring in Maldonado earlier. But a strategy won't work if it is not supported by a driver putting in appropriate laps.

The out lap put in by Maldonado was so good that I doubt Alonso would have come back in lead, even if he was released by Pic earlier. Ferrari should have reacted to that call early as well.

So, it was a proper undercut. Both the Williams pit crew and the driver working together. What is there to not like?
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Old 15th May 2012, 10:50   #14
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
So, it was a proper undercut. Both the Williams pit crew and the driver working together. What is there to not like?
Just one thing - it didn't happen on the track.


Another general point, in pre-Pirelli/pre-DRS era there was hardly any overtaking on the track. Most of it was strategical. Drivers on the limit, refueling, consistent tyres, strategies playing a big part etc etc - everything most people want here except overtaking on track. After pit-stops, it was just a 300kmph procession. You could skip the race and just watch a few laps around pit-stops to get all the action from the race (except when someone makes a mistake/crashes). This is what led to Pirellis and DRS and still they are facing criticism (as much as I dislike DRS enabled overtaking). Once teams get a better understanding of these tires, I am quite sure things will go back to how they were before, unfortunately.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:19   #15
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Default Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical?

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
Just one thing - it didn't happen on the track.


Another general point, in pre-Pirelli/pre-DRS era there was hardly any overtaking on the track. Most of it was strategical. Drivers on the limit, refueling, consistent tyres, strategies playing a big part etc etc - everything most people want here except overtaking on track. After pit-stops, it was just a 300kmph procession. You could skip the race and just watch a few laps around pit-stops to get all the action from the race (except when someone makes a mistake/crashes). This is what led to Pirellis and DRS and still they are facing criticism (as much as I dislike DRS enabled overtaking). Once teams get a better understanding of these tires, I am quite sure things will go back to how they were before, unfortunately.
While your point about overtaking being far lesser is valid, the issue was not down to tyres as you're trying to put it down to.

Bridgestone was not the sole reason we had lesser overtaking. This is a big misconception we seem to have here. It was the peculiar aerodynamic characteristics of the cars, mostly downforce. Engineers, kept coming up with newer and newer aero innovations in the race to make their cars faster.
What this led to directly was an increase in the dirty air for the following car.

Modern F1 cars are designed to run in clean air, the wind tunnels that teams spend so much time on give simulations of an F1 car against clean air as it is near impossible to simulate the dirty/ turbulent air that comes from following another car closely. This is why we saw most of the F1 cars in the naughties struggle with following other cars.

The biggest difference in the 80s and early 90s and the 00's was the use of huge amounts of powerful computers that simulate new parts and bring more and more aerodynamic efficiency to F1 cars. Now aero innovations are much better, we see small plates added to the front wing / back wing each weekend like a transformers movie.

The FIA has constantly been trying to restrict downforce on F1 cars by banning double diffusers, exhaust blown diffusers, movable aero, etc etc. This didnt work as the engineers are too clever.

So they used option B : Give the cars really bad tyres so everyone is restricted. Now downforce does not matter anymore although the method by which it is restricted (i.e. by giving everyone stih tyres) is simply wrong.

Last edited by PuntoMania : 15th May 2012 at 12:24.
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