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Old 22nd July 2012, 20:01   #16
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

I somehow did not like the race today. Terrible coverage, worst ever commentary, and a bit boring.

Was that move from Vettel over Button Justified..?

Alonso is edging away towards the title for sure, he looks really comfortable to take the WDC this year.

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Old 22nd July 2012, 20:14   #17
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Alonso is 34 points ahead of Webber and 36 of Vettel, who is 23 points ahead of Kimi.
McLaren are in third place, just one point ahead of Lotus.

FI are eighth, one point behind Williams, and thirty-two points behind Sauber, who are in sixth place. FI are doomed to eighth place, unless they unlock the secrets of the Pirellis in the remaining races. Force India had problems with Bridgestone tyres as well.

FI are incapable of gathering a bunch of points from races, unlike Williams and Sauber. Sauber have found out how to manage the Pirellis, and with the eccentric Maldonado, Williams will collect a bunch of points now and then.

Hulkenberg was forced into a 3 stop strategy, as he started losing too much pace. If FI had planned a three stop strategy to start with, he might have scored more points. Considering that they are unable to make the tyres last, they might as well plan for it. Their car seems to be fast enough to make the strategy work. In any case, they will not do worse.

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Old 22nd July 2012, 21:18   #18
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

vettel is penalised 20 secs for that move on button dropping him to 5 th.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 22:09   #19
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

"vettel is penalised 20 secs for that move on button dropping him to 5 th."

I honestly don't see the sense in this. It was not one of those corners were there was an undue advantage to Vettel. It was not like he cut a corner.
He ensured that the cars did not touch. He actually said as much to Button before going to the podium.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 22:43   #20
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

What a race! Mega drive by Fernando! What a driver! holding off Vettel and then Button all through without them even trying to sneak in was amazing.
Shame about Lewis.. Mclarens were real quick today after the upgrades they brought.
Sauber too have got it right in terms of race pace.

Vettel made a desperate move, clearly illegal. He went around the outside and took the wider line which was off the track. He should have given the place back and tried again.
Disappointing race for Webber too.. expected more from him
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Old 22nd July 2012, 23:05   #21
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakirank View Post
"vettel is penalised 20 secs for that move on button dropping him to 5 th."

I honestly don't see the sense in this. It was not one of those corners were there was an undue advantage to Vettel. It was not like he cut a corner.
He ensured that the cars did not touch. He actually said as much to Button before going to the podium.
Michael did this to Trulli many years ago at the same corner.. it was just about acceptable back then.
Not anymore


Last edited by Hatari : 22nd July 2012 at 23:19.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 23:32   #22
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

[quote=Hatari;2847950]Michael did this to Trulli many years ago at the same corner.. it was just about acceptable back then.
Not anymore

Thanks Hatari.

It appears you are right.

FIA DRIVER PROTOCOL DETAILS

“Rule 20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

“A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

“Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.

“A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason.”

I still can't fathom, why the team did not advise Vettel to give up the position? That way he could have still been third!
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Old 22nd July 2012, 23:53   #23
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Michael did this to Trulli many years ago at the same corner.. it was just about acceptable back then.
Not anymore
Yup, but Shumi finished overtaking Trulli, only when they where both back on track. But today when Vettel overtook Button, he had his car clearly on the run off area.

There was an incident between Hamilton and Rosberg earlier this season, but no action was taken against Hamilton.

Last edited by ecenandu : 22nd July 2012 at 23:54. Reason: Removing video from quoted post.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 02:00   #24
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Vettel clearly had an advantage of going early on the throttle on the pass over Button. IMHO, usually, if it was any other corner, the car that was in the outside line before the corner would have to go for the inside line while coming out of it.

Having said that, may be if he was in a Ferrari, he would have got away with that. The reason for my grudge is, the FIA did not bother to bring a safety car when there was lot of debris on the track, which ruined Hamilton's race. Is it because the lead car was Ferrari? What else is so different between this and the Valencia incident?, where the safety car was deployed when a redbull was in the lead.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 08:55   #25
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Sublime drive by Alonso. The F2012 doesn't look that fast when compared to the McLaren or the RB8, but Alonso was able to maintain just the right gap all throughout without destroying his tyres. And with these tyres, it is very difficult to judge who was faster overall. But McLaren looks good in the dry.

I think stewards got both the rulings correct. Vettel should have given back the place to Button, as he had all 4 wheels off the track. And Vettel ran wide earlier and the faster Hamilton made a clean move. It became a hindrance for Vettel' pursuit of Alonso, but Hamilton did nothing wrong. Anyone can unlap if they are faster than the leader.

RBR has managed to outsmart FIA with their new engine mappings. And it is well within the written rules that FIA can't do anything about it other than changing the wordings yet again. Very smart indeed.

All shaping up nicely for the second half of the season.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 09:23   #26
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

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I think stewards got both the rulings correct. Vettel should have given back the place to Button, as he had all 4 wheels off the track. And Vettel ran wide earlier and the faster Hamilton made a clean move. It became a hindrance for Vettel' pursuit of Alonso, but Hamilton did nothing wrong. Anyone can unlap if they are faster than the leader.
Thinking about it - was that a deliberate ploy from Lewis, to slow down and frustrate Vettel? Clearly those lost seconds helped Jensen to jump ahead after Vettel's pitstop. For me, there were not many events in the whole race except this one.

And wonder if Vettel called out any names for Lewis - like he did to Narain earlier in the season
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Old 23rd July 2012, 10:15   #27
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Fantastic race. Vettel's penalty though sad, was expected. What bugged me is that the man who caused all the mayhem 'Hamilton' got away scot free.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 10:52   #28
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Not a very interesting race. I was hoping for a wet one. Few talking points of the race for me.

- Should Hamilton be investigated for "impeding" lead cars? What do the rules say?
- With so much debris, should n't safety car have been deployed to clear those up?
- Vettel clearly went off-track and gained a position which is clearly against rules. I thought FIA had made it quite clear but apparently bulls missed it. Or maybe they should have gravel traps instead of tarmac in run off areas.
- Those Saubers have clearly found something with these tires. They have come have lower half of the grid into top 8 more than a few times this season.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 11:39   #29
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Fernando was a class apart. Pressure brings out the best in him. Qualifying and then the race. Great race..
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Old 23rd July 2012, 11:52   #30
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - German Grand Prix

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Thinking about it - was that a deliberate ploy from Lewis, to slow down and frustrate Vettel? Clearly those lost seconds helped Jensen to jump ahead after Vettel's pitstop. For me, there were not many events in the whole race except this one.

And wonder if Vettel called out any names for Lewis - like he did to Narain earlier in the season
Lewis was lapping 0.7 secs faster than Vettel at the time he overtook Vettel. A lapped car has every right to unlap itself and Lewis did nothing to impede Vettel's progress. It was only Vettel's ego!

I am still surprised when Alonso was holding up a bloody quick Lewis in that Mclaren and used Lewis's car to his advantage and was also staying away from the DRS zone when Button was chasing him. Mclarens were clearly the faster car and the asturian did everything to keep the Ferrari ahead of them. I am happy that Alonso has a comfortable lead with the points going into the 2nd half of the season.

A major aero upgrade coming on the Ferrari in Spa, I hope they will stay and fight in front of the grid! Until then, its Mclaren with the fastest car going to Hungary
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