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Old 31st July 2012, 13:04   #76
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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JB & SV both had 3 stops, not 4.
Teams have understood the tires now so no performance differential resulted in no overtaking. Even if Vettel had 10 more laps he wouldnt have been able to overtake.
My bad, goofed up , something told me they were on four since the TV displays were showing up stuff like that.
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For the August break, all factories are shut so no development going on.
I don't trust these biggies , they will find innovative ways to get work done.
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Spa is completely different from Hungary so it will give us a different pecking order.
Yes it is. RBR will be very strong, so will Kimi. He likes SPA and it might rain and that will be a potboiler
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Old 1st August 2012, 12:03   #77
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Dont see him strong enough to fight for the title. Qualifying too has been quite poor.
Yes, his qualifying performance have been totally off. But you could see Kimi's car come very close to the win quite a few times already. If it was not for the narrow Hungarian track, the race result would have been different. If Kimi can get his qualifying issues sorted, then we all know what he can do and he did in 2007! So never rule him out of the fight until the maths say that he cant.

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They have been testing a few bits but nothing has made it to the car for the races in the past 3 GPs.
Thats the Ferrari team this year, they have been downplaying all the upgrades that they have been bringing in. Ferrari had 3 different front wings so far and this week is very crucial for the Ferrari team as they are trying to understand why they lost so much performance in Hungary compared to Hockenheim and Silverstone with pretty much the same car.

Another interesting thing to note, Alonso was losing 1 second to Hamilton until his first stint and he was doing almost similar timings as the track rubbered in through the 2nd stint and was again slower towards the end of the race as the fuel levels were dropping. So understanding the problem that slowed them down in Hungary and also preparing the upgrades for Spa & Monza is the task ahead for the factory team this week before the factory is closed for the next couple of weeks.
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Old 1st August 2012, 15:50   #78
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Yes, his qualifying performance have been totally off. But you could see Kimi's car come very close to the win quite a few times already. If it was not for the narrow Hungarian track, the race result would have been different. If Kimi can get his qualifying issues sorted, then we all know what he can do and he did in 2007! So never rule him out of the fight until the maths say that he cant.
Historically Kimi has been very quick with a well behaved car.
He starts to drop though when the car is not setup properly. This year too he has issues with the Lotus power steering. In addition, we will have to see if Lotus can keep its development going throughout the season.

In any case I will always bet on drivers who can be quick in mostly anything - Seb, Lewis and Fernando

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Thats the Ferrari team this year, they have been downplaying all the upgrades that they have been bringing in. Ferrari had 3 different front wings so far and this week is very crucial for the Ferrari team as they are trying to understand why they lost so much performance in Hungary compared to Hockenheim and Silverstone with pretty much the same car.

Another interesting thing to note, Alonso was losing 1 second to Hamilton until his first stint and he was doing almost similar timings as the track rubbered in through the 2nd stint and was again slower towards the end of the race as the fuel levels were dropping. So understanding the problem that slowed them down in Hungary and also preparing the upgrades for Spa & Monza is the task ahead for the factory team this week before the factory is closed for the next couple of weeks.
The front wings were not used during the race. Only in practice.
The last stint he was much closer than the 2nd, less than a tenth off on an avg.

Ferrari has always been harder on its tires, therefore performance on the Softs is slower over a stint when compared other top teams. It is much better on the Mediums.
AT Spa & Monza, Pirelli is brining the Hard and the Medium tires, which should suit Ferrari a bit more.
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Old 1st August 2012, 17:59   #79
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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In any case I will always bet on drivers who can be quick in mostly anything - Seb, Lewis and Fernando
Thats what everyone thought in 2007 too and look who ended up champion
My bet is on IceMan for 2012 WDC
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Old 1st August 2012, 19:04   #80
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Thats what everyone thought in 2007 too and look who ended up champion
My bet is on IceMan for 2012 WDC
2007 was probably Alonso's worst year in F1 and Lewis's 1st year.
Do you think that is a fair comparison?

Massa then went on to beat Kimi the following year by more points than Kimi beat him in 2007.
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Old 1st August 2012, 19:24   #81
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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My bet is on IceMan for 2012 WDC
That's the spirit

Everybody seems to forget that this is his first season with a new team, and it has taken Lotus/Kimi few races to get everything going well.

Qualifying is still an area where improvement is required. Another area where they struggled earlier was their pit strategy. Last couple of races though, we have seen they got the upper hand by pitting early in Hockenheim to get the undercut and then going longer in Hungary and still coming ahead of others, which is rarely done these days. So obviously they have learnt something there.
More importantly, Kimi is happier with car than he was in the beginning, so results will follow.
WDC is still a long shot though, but if he scores those podiums consistently with a win or two, he will be in the hunt.

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Old 1st August 2012, 23:29   #82
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Historically Kimi has been very quick with a well behaved car.
He starts to drop though when the car is not setup properly. This year too he has issues with the Lotus power steering. In addition, we will have to see if Lotus can keep its development going throughout the season.
Historically..!? Kimi is one of the drivers who earned his seat in F1 because of his natural talent. Look at his pre-F1 career that should earn him his F1 super license compared to other drivers on the grid.

Remember his win in Spa in 2009, his 2003, 2005 & 2007 seasons are great examples of his talent. 2008 was covered with red politics to bring in big money from Santander with Alonso. Dont know what other history I missed about Kimi.

If I have to bet, I would put 50 on Alonso and the rest on Mr.ICE

The best drivers on the grid. Give bad cars to Lewis, Vettel and most importantly Mr.Button. Watch them fall back like Hamilton did in 2011, Vettel in the early half of this season and Mr.Button everytime a nut becomes lose in the car he goes P6
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Old 2nd August 2012, 00:20   #83
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

These discussions could be carried forward in the below thread, apt to being there than here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intl-m...ne-season.html (The 2012 Formula One Season)

I feel Kimi is inching towards achieving Over-confidence in the coming races. No more Mr IceCool. Any Kimi fan can clearly identify in what i am saying.

Alonso is clearly looking really strong , and i would put my money on him than anyone else.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 01:07   #84
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

I completely agree with anachronix, Kimi is looking strong for a top 3 finish. Once the Iceman gets a car he likes, everyone knows nothing can stop himl; but the WDC looks a long shot unless Ferrari screw up a little.
Lotus obviously would work on their strategies over the gap, that has been their Achilles heel.
A repeat of the '07, oh oh! Now won't that be a smack on the face of Ferrari and Alonso.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:30   #85
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Give bad cars to Lewis, Vettel and most importantly Mr.Button. Watch them fall back like Hamilton did in 2011, Vettel in the early half of this season and Mr.Button everytime a nut becomes lose in the car he goes P6
Agree about Button but Hamilton and Vettel? No way. Vettel put that STR on pole and won from there back at Monza 2008. Yes, qualifying was in mixed conditions but, if I remember correctly, race was dry. And he put that car way up the grid more than a few times. Hamilton hasn't driven as many bad cars as other champions around him but 2009 Mclaren was almost as bad as 2009 Ferrari. And he beat the heck out of his then team mate Heikki Kovalainen.

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I completely agree with anachronix, Kimi is looking strong for a top 3 finish. Once the Iceman gets a car he likes, everyone knows nothing can stop himl; but the WDC looks a long shot unless Ferrari screw up a little.
Lotus obviously would work on their strategies over the gap, that has been their Achilles heel.
A repeat of the '07, oh oh! Now won't that be a smack on the face of Ferrari and Alonso.
I would love to see Kimi win a race this year but title - not sure. Based on driver performance alone, it has to be Alonso. He seems to have extracted every single ounce of performance and more from that Ferrari this year. Won races from the front and from mid field (unlike Vettel in that RBR who seems to win only when in top 3 or so).
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Old 2nd August 2012, 13:06   #86
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Agree about Button but Hamilton and Vettel? No way. Vettel put that STR on pole and won from there back at Monza 2008. Yes, qualifying was in mixed conditions but, if I remember correctly, race was dry. And he put that car way up the grid more than a few times.
May be I would agree about Vettel.

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Hamilton hasn't driven as many bad cars as other champions around him but 2009 Mclaren was almost as bad as 2009 Ferrari. And he beat the heck out of his then team mate Heikki Kovalainen.
In 2009, Mclaren had the worst car to start the season. But unlike Ferrari in 2009 which stopped developing the car when the races came back to Europe from Canada, Mclaren continued to develop the 2009 car and by the GermanGP they had their version of the DDD ready and they were 3rd fastest car. Towards the end of the season the order was Redbull, Mclaren & Brawn.

Look at Hamilton's results vs that of Kimi's in 2009 who was driving a car for which the development was stopped before mid season. And Lewis was clearly beaten by average Button last year.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 14:06   #87
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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And Lewis was clearly beaten by average Button last year.
As much as I loved to see that, Kimi was beaten by Massa in 2008 and was leading in 2009 till his accident. While Massa is nearing retirement, Kimi seems to be coming out of it (though he never officially retired).

Button - average??? Sure, he struggles in a badly setup car but calling him average is like calling Alonso stupid.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 15:54   #88
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Lewis was clearly beaten by average Button last year.
I am a Button fan, but I do agree Lewis is quicker over a lap and is more gutsy when it comes to overtaking. Last year's Mclaren was the second best car on the grid and LH's struggle last year was not because of the car but because of his personal issues.

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While Massa is nearing retirement, Kimi seems to be coming out of it (though he never officially retired).

Button - average??? Sure, he struggles in a badly setup car but calling him average is like calling Alonso stupid.
I agree. Some drivers are more sensitive to the car than others and while it may not be a good thing for their success rate, it certainly does not make them bad drivers.

Kimi is not as sensitive as Button, but he himself has admitted that the lotus's steering, though improved is not perfect to his liking as the previous cars he has driven (He said this in Hungary press conf). I feel he would be on top of his game if Lotus could give that extra bit for him to challenge for the WDC.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 16:24   #89
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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As much as I loved to see that, Kimi was beaten by Massa in 2008 and was leading in 2009 till his accident. While Massa is nearing retirement, Kimi seems to be coming out of it (though he never officially retired).
Yes, he was beaten for unknown reasons after the FrenchGP in that season. Massa was leading Kimi before his injury, do basic points calculations until HungarianGP.

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Button - average??? Sure, he struggles in a badly setup car but calling him average is like calling Alonso stupid.
He is an average driver, he is good if the car is good! If the car is not to his liking, he goes way down the grid while the other car from his team goes for the win. This has been the trend in Button's career. Rubens was beating him all through the 2nd half of 2009. I would still call him an average driver, you can call Alonso stupid if you want
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Old 2nd August 2012, 16:40   #90
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Hungaroring GP, Budapest

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Historically..!? Kimi is one of the drivers who earned his seat in F1 because of his natural talent.
Let me rephrase
Historically he has been quick BUT he starts to drop when the car is not behaving properly

Andrea Stella's words on Kimi and Alonso :

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Kimi was very, very quick when the car was operating in a certain window. In this situation he can be the fastest, although when the car was not in that window, he had to work harder to find the optimal point with the car. And with Fernando, his strong point is that, basically, he does not have weak points! He is strong as a driver in the car in all conditions, from dry to extreme wet and outside the car, he is very consistent and strong mentally, which is very important in modern Formula 1
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