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Old 12th August 2012, 14:42   #1
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Default Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

Sorry did not have the time for appropriate pictures - readers please feel free to add

When Masao Furusawa and Valentino Rossi talked about the latter’s return to Yamaha if he were to have “problems” at Ducati, nobody imagined the jinx would materialize to no end.

For a naive fan, it was not far fetched to expect an “M1” kind of debut for Rossi [pole, victory and fastest lap] on the Duck. After all, The M1 was winless the year before and its only 2 victories coming from the hands of departed star Max Biaggi - while Ducati had secured the title in 2007 with Stoner, and numerous victories from 2009 to 2010. They had hired Vale’s friend Vito Guareschi to replace Livio Suppo and convinced legendary crew chief Jeremy Burgess to jump ship with Rossi. So, the Doctor had everything he had asked for including a hefty salary and the might of Ducati and #46 fans behind him.

Revelation from pre-season testing, practice and qualifying - Ducati Corse with Rossi had edged backwards ages behind Honda and Yamaha in lap times.

2 years hence and still winless – what the hell happened

While it is easy to blame Ducati for all of the Italian’s woes, I cannot help but think that we had seen the best of Rossi before his joining the Bologonese firm. Add to this, fundamental differences in design philosophies and way of working, it was never a marriage made in heaven. The only nexus was the Italian connection. Rossi and Ducati each have their legion of fans worldwide without needing each other. I am a big Casey Stoner fan and a Ducati fan and still believe the Aussie is the only guy in the current field who can win on the beast called Desmosedici. My 11 year old son who is an ardent #46 fan argues that Ducati did not deliver a bike that is capable of winning – and went on to add that it is a pile of crap. [Yet, it did not stop him from buying an expensive model of GP11 when we were in Firenze for our summer vacation.]

To have a context, let us trace the history of the Ducati MotoGP effort. Capirex won a race during the first season beating Rossi in a close battle. He could have won the title in 2005 – barring injuries – read my tribute to the man if you want details. Bayliss qualified second and won the 2006 season finale when he was brought in as a wildcard!!! to replacethe injured Gibernau

Enter year 2007 and the 800cc era - Preziosi and team designed a bike with one single criterion in mind – maximum power. Every design decision was based around it. Shod with superior Bridgestones and Stoner’s incredible talent, it was all but impossible for Rossi to mount a serious title challenge. The GP-7 was an incredible machine – but needed a rider like Stoner to win. He was visibly faster than anyone else seemingly able to get on the throttle earlier than anyone else could dare. The electronics were also very fine-tuned. Rossi would tell you that the bike suits Stoner’s riding style and he molded his style to the bike since he joined the team when he was young – so much for Rossi’s theory, Stoner did not have any difficulty adapting to the RC212 either – can you tell I am a fan of the Aussie.

The M1 caught up with the GP8 in 2008 – Laguna Seca being the turning point where Stoner was mentally scarred – Rossi got in his head. No doubt, the Laguna Seca performance by Rossi was a masterpiece – where he had no chance to beat Stoner. You ignore Rossi at your own peril came true for Stoner. He simply was not prepared for a bare knuckle battle. Ducati’s plan was to get away and win with a double digit margin. I was cheering for Stoner seated at the exit of Andretti Hairpin alongside Munroe Motors’ crew – and was simply stunned. A frustrated Stoner binned it entering T11 and remarkably finished 2nd.

Stoner went on to crash a couple more times while in the lead when pushed by Rossi. He rode the GP-8 with great ferocity and dominated the machine. This also meant riding close to its mechanical limits – especially adhesion – and when those limits were crossed, in pursuit of escaping a Laguna kind of tussle, he would end up in the gravel. Riding that bike must be an exhausting experience for mind and body – with Stoner looking drained out after some races. Nicky captured it well after his pre-season acclimatization runs when he said - I don’t know how much they pay Casey but they need to double his salary. And Stoner’s arm pump issue is no surprise! – he has strong fore arms – no question, but he is not built like his countryman Matt Mladin.

Ducati put down Stoner’s crashes to rider error and the racing world said he did not have the mental strength to battle Rossi. Someone even wrote – it is the return of Crashey Stoner. Ducati did not perform sufficient analysis to get to the bottom of the front end issues that Stoner started to complain about – he was venturing into unexplored limits when he had to raise the bar to escape from Rossi. Jeremy Burgess commented about Ducati’s lackadaisical attitude towards solving this issue – he had no clue what he was up against.

Ducati had been incorporating Carbon Fiber rather liberally across the bike. The company known for innovation is not afraid to take bold steps. Some times, it could be in the wrong direction – or so everyone thought. If you look at the extreme versions of the Desmosedici, from the steering head to the swing arm, there is nothing but carbon fiber. There is no chassis to speak of, the engine acting as a stressed member. There was a joke on the Internet that said – there is another “stressed member” that is an integral part of the package – it is Rossi. Conventional chassis flexes, but the engine casings are not designed to flex – and add Carbon Fiber, you end up with a very rigid platform – is this the problem in itself? Who knows? Stoner demonstrated otherwise with a commanding victory at Phillip Island to plant an exclamation to the 2010 season. Then again, he is unbeatable at his home turf.

I posted somewhere else in this forum about Yamaha making the chassis of the new R1 more flexible, while Ducati with its Panigale making it stiffer through the frameless design concept. There is little doubt that Yamaha’s racing pedigree is highlighted by razor-sharp handling – witnessed from the YZR500 of the Lawson-Rainey era to today’s M1. Ducati’s strength has been in its outright power. But to use the power, you need the rest of the bike from chassis and suspension to tyres and electronics.

There is very little to say about Rossi’s Ducati years – 1 wet race where there was a “chance” of a victory and a second place. He has clearly indicated that he is not interested in competing for 6th or a 7th place. The pair started off on their back-foot. After trying for one full season, they seemed directionless. You cannot blame Ducati for not trying – abandoning their innovative culture in adapting aluminum instead of carbon fiber step-by-step [some of it very hasty due to the lack of time and resources] that culminated in a twin spar aluminum frame. But the opportunity cost of this exercise must have been huge – it became their sole focus and took time away from any other development – essentially going back to step-1. Remember, HRC and YMC are not standing still for Ducati to have its conventional frame ready.

Come Laguna Seca 2012, the conventional alum frame adorned GP12, is as recalcitrant as its full CF frameless brethren. It is interesting to see how Rossi, Stoner and Lorenzo handle the bump after the Rainey curve. Rossi’s eye apparently lit up moments before in anticipation of an impending high side. Lorenzo’s M1 simply sucked it up while Stoner used it to drift the RC212 for a better corner exit. After Rossi’s crash coming into Corkscrew in the penultimate lap, the front tire looked new. The bike simply cannot build heat into it. To put an exclamation, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Stoner all went faster than the previous lap record set by Stoner and Rossi’s best lap was almost half a second slower than the one set by Stoner in 2007 on the 800 GP7.

Rossi and Ducati’s attempts to lure inventor of the cross-plane-crank, Masao Furusawa to replace Preziosi at the helm and Preziosi’s willingness to vacate his strong-hold was not enough to pave a new path for Ducati Corse.

So he heads back to Yamaha where he will have the unfamiliar #2 position. Nobody would doubt that he will win races but will we see more? Lorenzo is at his peak.

So, where is Ducati Corse headed without Stoner? I would have loved Marquez to bring Repsol money to Ducati and mold himself like Stoner did. Simply cannot see Dovi succeed at Ducati [remember Melandri whose MotoGP career was destroyed by GP8 - he was clearly a better rider than Dovi] – I hope he proves me wrong. Nicky has been the test mule and has played second fiddle to Rossi [and has done so during his entire MotoGP career. May be a #1 status could give him more drive - Somehow, I feel he is already trying his best and past his prime.

Bring it on 2013. Stoner please change your mind.

-Krishna

Last edited by ksanjee : 12th August 2012 at 15:01.
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Old 12th August 2012, 19:08   #2
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

While its true that Rossi coming to Ducati made a bad bike only worse, the fact remains that the bike was/is just unridable.

They took his advise and meddled with it because they were lost and not confident of their product. Then they ended up ruining it further.

Even Stoner complained about 'lack of feel' in the bike and crashed umpteen times. IIRC that's the reason he left.
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Old 12th August 2012, 20:08   #3
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

Stoner had every reason to leave Ducati. Ducati and Rossi marriage did not happen overnight. It was every Italian's dream to see this conummate. Stoner would absolutely have had wind of this. A team that does not listen to him despite the fact that he is their only anchor man and the fact that they are considering his most hated rival as a replacement!!!!

I watched Stoner in action at T1, T3, T5 and entry of T6 at Laguna during all sessions including his stint with Carrera Honda where he binned it in T6. I also watched him live in Estoril upon his return after the break [for "lactose intolerance" or Ducati Corse management attitude intolerance] - I always felt he was on the ragged edge and one step up would mean he would crash. He lets the bike move quite a bit as opposed to clinical Lorenzo or Rossi.

But that bike was not as bad as Rossi made it out to be. Stoner won races for crying out loud and was never over a second a lap off the leader's pace - except when they chose rain tires in a dry race. Ducati thought that they had found Panacea in Rossi - and boy were they wrong.
Rossi's results certainly vindicated Stoner - and as a spiteful Aussie who does not hide his sentiments he has opened his mind on this topic...

Krishna
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Old 13th August 2012, 17:28   #4
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

True, but Niki Hayden is not able to do that much better than Rossi.

At this age Rossi is not interesting in re-learning how to ride all over again. He has won umpteen c'ships and knows what he needs from the machine. Lately Rossi has been a couple spots behind Niki and this just shows that he's given up for this year.

Yes, I agree it would be nice to see Stoner back on the Duke! Also Ducati needs to provide bikes to privateer teams to help gather more testing data.

Last edited by Mpower : 13th August 2012 at 17:31.
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Old 15th August 2012, 09:32   #5
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

The crux of the issue is Ducati engineered and developed a bike solely around Stoner’s incredible (and BALLSY) riding talent and the genius of Cristian Gabbarini in setting up the bike for him. In 2007 they started with a clean slate. Capirex won Motegi and since then, NO ONE other than Stoner has won on the beast. After his first stint, Rossi was simply shaken – his worst fears had come true – the bike was much worse than he thought it was and Stoner was a much better rider than he thought he was. Stoner’s results simply masked the bikes’ HUGE shortcomings. That is the starting point that drove Rossi and JB on a wild goose chase in which they failed miserably. Rossi had no intentions of re-learning - and I don't blame him and he has said he simply cannot ride like Stoner.

Hayden was decimated by Stoner - something I expected. Apart from his 3 race wins with the factory Honda, 2 coming from Laguna and another freak win, he has rarely been a front runner. Especially, considering he has been on a factory bike all the time. Yes he is a MotoGP champion but he is miles away from the 4 aliens – Rossi-Stoner-Lorenzo-Pedrosa. He was probably the best of AMA superbike racing. However, I would not read much into Nicky finishing ahead of Rossi.

I am confident that Rossi will win with Yamaha – he simply was not ready for a long term project to help Ducati build a bike that someone other than Stoner can win with – including himself. Translation – I sucked, so time to move one. Masao may have been the missing link.

Ducati has always supplied to a satellite team [except their first year if I am not wrong] – with various riders starting with (Hodgson and Xaus – which was a disaster), Hoffman and Guintoli etc. Even Capirex rode a Pramac Ducati. This year, the Satellite GP12 ridden by Barbera actually showed some pace occasionally. He may be a better choice than Dovi. However, they need a fundamental change in their engineering philosophy without Stoner. Unless they find someone like him. I don't know if the V-4 configuration in itself is a wrong choice for the weight distribution - who knows.

Ducati-Stoner crashes were blown out of proportion - especially in attributing his crashes to the bike. Some times our mind remembers only what it wants to remember – I had the impression that the GP8, 9 and 10 with Stoner as the pilot were potential title contenders. Some may remember otherwise. The truth may be somewhere in between – READ ON IF YOU HAVE TIME

From 2008 to 2010 Stoner recorded 13 victories, 16 pole position, 14 fastest laps finished second 6 times and was in third 9 times – and this during a time when Rossi-Lorenzo Yamaha combination was supreme.

He recorded a total of 9 DNFs in three years – let us break it up for the sake of objectivity:

2008 3 DNFs [2 coming right after Laguna and where he had pole and fastest lap in both races – Brno and San Marino] – this could very well be him pushing over the limit as I have indicated in my original post. Rossi had the measure of Stoner who could not win the mental battle.

2009 – Ducati introduces the CF frame – replacing its traditional trellis frame. This is a bold move since previous introduction of CF technology by Cagiva [which owned Ducati in the past] did not see more than 2 races in the hands of Randy Mamola – the suspension setup was said to be radically different than a conventional frame – so it simply did not work. I am not counting Britten VR1000 which also incorporated CF technology with success – in a world championship level but not Grand Prix

Enter GP-9 – it dominated the pre-season testing - Stoner attested that the bike was considerably easier to ride – with CF’s unique ability to tune out harmonics that can cause wheel chatter [in addition to reducing un-sprung weight] – The bike was built around Stoner’s unique riding style. [The RC212 on the other hand has been plagued by the chatter problem that robs Stoner of precious tenths here and there. The more aggressive you ride the more pronounced the issue becomes.]

To back it up, in the season opener at Qatar – he had pole, fastest lap and victory.

He scored 1 DNF in Valencia warm-up lap while he had pole and a clear favorite to win – this remains a mystery – Stoner is extra careful on the warm-up lap [may be to save fuel and warm-up tires slowly – it could also mean it does not build enough heat and can catch you by surprise on a cool day] – It is not uncommon for riders to scrub the rear race tire on the sighting lap on their #2 bike and put it on the race bike for a second sighting lap – something that Stoner may not have done for this particular event.

This is also the season when he took a 3 race break [for a mysterious illness – anemia, lactose intolerance or what ever – but it was not an injury] right after the tire choice debacle at Donnigton where he and Nicky were both lapped. Listen to Kevin Schwantz on the topic of Stoner’s decision to take off three races mid-season – every one in the paddock were shocked at this – because he was still in contention for the title and he decided to not gut it out. If he had a clean start at Estoril on his return, he could have challenged Lorenzo for lead. However, Stoner-Ducati relationship was deteriorating.

Livio Suppo left at the end of 2009 to HRC – he and Stoner clearly have a strong bond and Livio did not exchange birthday cards with Rossi. Where as Vito his replacement is a good friend of Rossi – is this a deliberate build-up to hire Rossi? Or purely coincidental – no one I know knows for sure.

2010 5DNFs: Crashed in Qatar on lap 6 after having set pole and fastest lap that would hold – Stoner would later admit that it was a mistake – essentially he did not put enough heat into the front because he felt he had lost the front on a couple of laps and had eased up. He won thrice, secured pole 4 times and 3 fastest laps.

With Livio Suppo at HRC, Stoner had the right ally. Early in the season, Rossi to Ducati rumors had already started and Stoner announced switch to HRC very early in the season.

After his announcement he crashed 4 more times - 5 crashes in 3 years before his official announcement to depart.

Krishna

Last edited by ksanjee : 15th August 2012 at 09:51.
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Old 15th August 2012, 10:24   #6
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

Some corrections from my son - I am off on the turns slightly as my memory gets out of sync without having been there in 3 years now.

Stoner binned the Carrera Honda in T5 and not T6. He remembers this because of Lorenzo's nasty high-side there in 2008 and Dani's crash while leading.

T-4 [not 5 as I have indicated] is an excellent place to watch Casey at full tilt.

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Old 16th August 2012, 19:05   #7
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

In terms of raw speed, Stoner is good but not that much superior than everybody that you make it seem.

Even at Honda, Dani Pedrosa is constantly on his tail if not ahead of him. Of course, although Dani has talent, he's a bundle of nerves and tends to crash plus he's not good at tire management. In that regard, Stoner rocks.

Coming back to Ducati, you just cannot build a bike around one rider in the first place...that's just poor strategy. Secondly, no rider likes to ride a bike without front end feel. I hope Audi can knock some sense into them in that regard.
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Old 16th August 2012, 19:09   #8
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

Quote:
Secondly, no rider likes to ride a bike without front end feel.
In reality Rossi has been cribbing about this bike for the last two years and spent very little time developing into a winner.

I am not blaming rossi for his move, but he should have demanded changes that would help Ducati which was the only reason he moved to Ducati.

To me personally Rossi failed and he has very little chance to shine again in the Yamaha as well. His days are over as a champion.
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Old 16th August 2012, 20:06   #9
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

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Old 16th August 2012, 23:11   #10
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Even at Honda, Dani Pedrosa is constantly on his tail if not ahead of him. Of course, although Dani has talent, he's a bundle of nerves and tends to crash plus he's not good at tire management. In that regard, Stoner rocks.
Well, I'd just say the opposite. Stoner punishes that Honda so cruel that his tires give the ghosts up way before Dani. There have been a couple of instances where Stoner's pace dropped massively towards the end of the race. Reason being excessive tire wear and chattering issues. That said, it is more to do with new spec Bridgestone rubber than any of the rider's riding style here.


Coming back to the flop show by Rossi+Ducati team, while most (mainly the yellow brigade) blame Ducati and Preziosi point blank, I believe Rossi deserves equal bull crap for being over-enthusiastic, over-zealous, over-confidence and over-ambitious at the beginning of this journey. 'We can fix the front-end in 80 sec; Stoner didn't ride the Duke hard.' Remember all those boastful statements? Now what? Why didn't Rossi show us how to ride that bike hard? By looking at the progress of things at Ducati, it seems it might take Rossi and JB another 80 centuries to get this bike anywhere close to a Honda or a Yamaha.


And now he heads back to Yamaha with his tail between his legs. The same manufacturer with which 2 years ago this guy was simply disgusted as they chose Lorenzo as 2nd rider. Now, Rossi goes there as 2nd.


I agree, I am not a Rossi follower and haven't watched much of motorcycle racing when he was in his glory days. I may have been a bit brash with my choice of words above, and I sincerely apologize to Rossi fans for that. But the fact that this is the same racer who once slammed Honda in his autobiography wherein he claimed, ' It's not the machine but the rider that matters in MotoGP.' makes you think that the guy has a very high opinion of himself. If Stoner is bitching about Rossi now, he's just returning the favor. Casey is not entirely wrong when he says, Rossi ate his words since his first day at Ducati.


Rossi could be true about the rider and machine theory, but now it well proves that he's not that rider/racer. It's his arch rival-Casey Stoner. Pity!
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Old 17th August 2012, 09:58   #11
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

Krishna,
Thank you for the extremely well written post. I enjoyed reading every bit of it. Here are a few points from my perspective.

For Ducati, the wakeup call should have been when no rider apart from Stoner was able to perform well on the same bike. Right from 2009 they should have worked towards changing their philosophy about chassis and move towards technically sound conventions. I would say it is too naive of them to think they are on the right path with Stoner doing so well. What they overlooked was 3 other riders who are not able to come anywhere close to his performance on the same machine. A successful bike design will result in consistently near top line performances even from satellite teams. No doubt being innovative is good, but taking drastically different steps ( ex carbon fibre chassis) especially in a sport like motogp can result in high opportunity costs as you rightly mentioned. As Masao Furusawa said, carbon fibre is absolutely no-no for bikes because they need some chassis flex on full lean where there is literally no suspension.

Coming to Rossi, I think there is too much flak directed him for his failure towards development of Ducati. He is a rider who is held in very high esteem by none other than Furusawa for his development skills. Letís just say that Ducatiís design philosophy is diametrically opposite to Rossiís (as a matter of fact most other riders) liking and the bike needed more than a normal fine tune. Rossi had taken this plunge into this unchartered territory and had every intention and motivation to win with Ducati. If his efforts did not yield results even after two years, he is quite right to move on. As mentioned by him in the pre race press conference yesterday he just wanted to be on bike where he enjoys racing. Please check the link below. He is modest in his answers and realistic in his expectations. No doubt he had been brash prior to his move to Ducati and looks to be a changed person now.

Valentino Rossi: It


I hope Stoner reconsiders his decision and move back to Ducati..it will be a cracker if it happens..I guess this can be a distant possibility, probably for 2014.
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Old 17th August 2012, 13:11   #12
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

All I can say is thanks for sharing this comprehensive information and as to what you think about this most talked subject of recent times.

Have copy pasted this link at few places. Worth a read for Motorcycling fans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivank View Post
this is the same racer who once slammed Honda in his autobiography wherein he claimed, ' It's not the machine but the rider that matters in MotoGP.' makes you think that the guy has a very high opinion of himself.
Shivank! His results speak louder than words. His competition combined can't rake in the nos. which he has amassed.

Shun the electronics and see what he can do.

Lorenzo and Stoner of today aren't even in the same orbit as Rossi of '03-'04. As things stand today, I won't say that he would go ahead and win one w/o any battles, but with Stoner out, its between him & Lorenzo. Expect fireworks in '13.

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Old 21st September 2012, 04:29   #13
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

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Originally Posted by Shivank View Post
I agree, I am not a Rossi follower and haven't watched much of motorcycle racing when he was in his glory days. I may have been a bit brash with my choice of words above, and I sincerely apologize to Rossi fans for that. But the fact that this is the same racer who once slammed Honda in his autobiography wherein he claimed, ' It's not the machine but the rider that matters in MotoGP.' makes you think that the guy has a very high opinion of himself. If Stoner is bitching about Rossi now, he's just returning the favor. Casey is not entirely wrong when he says, Rossi ate his words since his first day at Ducati.

Rossi could be true about the rider and machine theory, but now it well proves that he's not that rider/racer. It's his arch rival-Casey Stoner. Pity!
Well, Rossi does think high of himself, and is no different than any champion driver/rider in that regard.

"He's not that rider/racer" - so the Honda/Yamaha change that he did didn't count is it? while Stoner's Ducati/Honda change counts!

There are lots of ways to look at Stoner/Rossi rivalry, but from Rossi fans perspective, it is just one of the rivalries that Rossi has had - given the long dominance that Rossi, and the number of quality opponents (Gibernau, Biaggi, Melandri, Capirossi) that have come and gone, while he is still a relevant force. He has had - 9 GP victories, and is still going strong. Stoner - 2 GP victories (and no more since he is retiring). So I really don't know if Stoner/his fans are in a position to laugh.

I like Stoner and his riding style, but really, until he continues to dominate the MotoGP world for more years, like Rossi has done, there is no question of eating words. When you change teams, a little bit of bad mouthing is standard in all motosports.
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Old 23rd September 2012, 13:00   #14
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

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Well, Rossi does think high of himself, and is no different than any champion driver/rider in that regard.

"He's not that rider/racer" - so the Honda/Yamaha change that he did didn't count is it? while Stoner's Ducati/Honda change counts!

There are lots of ways to look at Stoner/Rossi rivalry, but from Rossi fans perspective, it is just one of the rivalries that Rossi has had - given the long dominance that Rossi, and the number of quality opponents (Gibernau, Biaggi, Melandri, Capirossi) that have come and gone, while he is still a relevant force. He has had - 9 GP victories, and is still going strong. Stoner - 2 GP victories (and no more since he is retiring). So I really don't know if Stoner/his fans are in a position to laugh.

I like Stoner and his riding style, but really, until he continues to dominate the MotoGP world for more years, like Rossi has done, there is no question of eating words. When you change teams, a little bit of bad mouthing is standard in all motosports.
First, let me clear out a few things. I am not a Stoner fanboy, just a fan of his wicked riding skills. Second, I am not at all laughing; finding the whole turnaround of events amusing, that's for sure. Now moving on...

Rossi can think high of himself, but ridiculing other riders is something he should steer clear of. 'Stoner doesn't ride the Duke hard.' 'I am pissed off with Yamaha; they let Lorenzo ride my bike.' I think he should have had the patience to atleast have a go on that Ducati first before commenting like that. Also, never heard of Pedrosa complaining about Stoner snatching away his 'developed' ride and winning a championship on it straightaway. A team is supposedly run by the manufacturer and not rider. What's wrong if Yamaha appointed Jorge as his teammate? And then when Stoner fires back at Rossi's false claims, he's termed as Moaner!

The Honda/Yamaha switch you are talking about is certainly legendary. Can't neglect the immense success he had on the M1. Completely give up on the argument here. Credit where credit is due. However, when Rossi moved to Yamaha in 2004, he took along all his crew members; Yamaha doubled its investments and efforts for the championship. Everything was at stake including Rossi's reputation. The rider was perfect but at the same time you can't neglect the efforts, which were made to make the ride perfect!

Come 2012, almost 2 seasons have finished and I do not need to remind you again that this Rossi + JB+ inflated ego + Ducati = failure of epic proportions. It's obvious that Rossi fans love stats and at every possible opportunity '9 WC' pops up from somewhere. So, why not settle the rider/ride argument based on stats on the same bike (GP10 vs GP11; technically the same)?

Casey Stoner- 18 rounds, 3 wins, 9 podium, 4 pole, 3 fastest laps and 4th overall in the championship.

V.Rossi- 17 rounds, 0 wins, 0 pole, 1 podium (you do know how?), 0 fastest laps and 7th overall in the championship.

Above all of that ego-bruise, the guy who was so pissed off with Yamaha and Lorenzo once can't stop from singing praises about them now. Now if you say he's not supposed to eat his words, after all that, what else can I argue about other than tagging you as a Rossi fanboy?

No hard feeling, but this debate is never ending. One of my friends is a die-hard member of yellow brigade. Every second day we can be found debating over this Stoner vs Rossi topic. PM me your what's app number and you can join us too. It's a routine work for both of us. ;-)


@ Sheel,

Well, I would like to believe that Stoner's riding style is a better spectacle between the two riders. He even beats the electronics at it too, such an amazing throttle control he has. No matter what you'd have to agree with me on this. Most Rossi fans do.
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Old 9th November 2012, 12:03   #15
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Default Re: Marriage Made in HELL - Ducati and Rossi

http://motoroids.com/news/valentino-...t-for-tuesday/

It will be be emotional, can't wait for Tuesday: Rossi

ďYes, it will be the last racewith Ducati, and for sure weíre arriving at the end of this story between us, that unfortunately never gave good performance, or the level we expected.
It will be difficult on Sunday because after you work for a long part of the year with the people, and you then have to stop and change teams. It will be very emotional. Even if the result was not fantastic, we had a good time together outside of the track, and we tried the maximum. We will stay concentrated, stay focused and last year here was not too bad in practice but then we had the crash in the first corner of the race. We also have to wait and see for the weather and understand the new surface. It will be very, very interesting on Tuesday especially for me to try to understand which level I can achieve with the M1 and what feeling after two difficult seasons. I canít wait for the test. But first we have to stay concentrated and try to get the maximum points on Sunday for the battle for fifth place.Ē
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