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Old 4th November 2012, 06:56   #46
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

What a turn of events.
I am not a RedBull fan, but you cannot make such fundamental mistakes when the championship is on the line.

All in all this spiced up the race even more.
With Maldonado and Grosjean starting from 3rd and 9th respectively, I pray for no first corner incidents and an another exciting race.

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Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
The Stewards have ordered vettel to start from the back of the grid. However Redbull has decided to start from the Pit lane.
Does he get any advantage starting from the pit lane?
Yes, RedBull can work on the car overnight as the car will be out of parcferme. Vettel will also have a choice of tyres to start from. Hence they have decided to start from Pitlane.
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Old 4th November 2012, 07:46   #47
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmiester View Post
What a turn of events.
I am not a RedBull fan, but you cannot make such fundamental mistakes when the championship is on the line.
It cant be a mistake, its definitely Redbull being naughty as always and trying their chances. It should be great fun to watch a fast car starting from last!
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Old 4th November 2012, 09:21   #48
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Alonso has forced the first mistake even before the race!
Attempt to give maximum edge to Vettel has backfired.
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Old 4th November 2012, 10:05   #49
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

This is definitely not a mistake given the WDC title was on the line. I suspect that this was one way of getting the car with better setup and address the brake issue

Hope Alonso makes the best out of the situation..
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Old 4th November 2012, 10:05   #50
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
It cant be a mistake, its definitely Redbull being naughty as always and trying their chances. It should be great fun to watch a fast car starting from last!
More exciting would be to see how Alonso plays it out. This brings back the point game directly to the drawing board. A 13 point difference lies between them, and if Alonso can grab one of the top three positions, he could almost turn the tables on Vettel!
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Old 4th November 2012, 10:38   #51
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

What a turn of events!

I am baffled on how RBR is not able to take 1 litre of fuel from the car? With so much at stake, can't they suck the fuel out if there are so certain about the quantity?

I think Bernie holds a WWE 'any car' kill switch somewhere in his white shirt.

This is big lifeline for Ferrari and something which will take the championship down to the wire.
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Old 4th November 2012, 11:15   #52
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
What a turn of events!

I am baffled on how RBR is not able to take 1 litre of fuel from the car? With so much at stake, can't they suck the fuel out if there are so certain about the quantity?
This is what Horner had to say about the incident:

"During the slow down lap following the final run of Q3, Renault instructed to immediately stop Sebastian's car on the circuit due to an issue with the fuel system," Horner said. "After speaking with the stewards, who accepted the situation of force majeure for technical reasons for the car to be stopped, unfortunately, for reasons yet to be fully understood, 850ml of the required one litre was pumped out of the car following post race checks.

"As a result, the FIA has excluded Sebastian from qualifying and we will withdraw the car from Parc Ferme in order to investigate further. Therefore Sebastian will start from the pit lane for tomorrow's race. We will need to make the most of Mark's strong front-row grid position and Sebastian will have a busy evening ahead of him."

Source
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Old 4th November 2012, 11:15   #53
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

The Ferrari is quick in the race trim, I dont want to believe what Alonso said after Q yesterday that 1.41.5 is the best the F2012 can do.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103977

Massa's time of 1.41.7 came after 1 lockup and 1 oversteer moment in his Q3 flying lap. I am sure it was atleast 0.5 seconds that Massa lost in his lap!

I hope there would be some action today in the painfully boring AbuDhabi circuit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
This is what Horner had to say about the incident:
Thats the usual RB style of trying to be innocent in front of the media. They did the same when there was controversy about the engine maps.

Before Horner came up with this story, he mentioned a fuel pump issue to Gary Anderson.

Last edited by anachronix : 4th November 2012 at 11:21.
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Old 4th November 2012, 11:20   #54
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

A good note by Ted.

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Old 4th November 2012, 11:26   #55
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Thats the usual RB style of trying to be innocent in front of the media. They did the same when there was controversy about the engine maps.

Before Horner came up with this story, he mentioned a fuel pump issue to Gary Anderson.
Whatever is the case, this is one huge chance for Fernando. A good start, and getting ahead of the likes of Maldonado (without any incident) is the key

And I expect a good show from Kimi, starting from the 2nd row.
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Old 4th November 2012, 11:33   #56
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Default

Is ESPN HD not showing the race? They showed FP3 and shots well after the qualifying yesterday (probably they did not have anything else to show!).


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Old 4th November 2012, 11:33   #57
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

An interesting article by an F1 fanatic on why RBR intentionally fueled Vettel less and some conspiracy theories:

http://thejudge13.com/2012/11/04/why...start-penalty/


This is what I get:

1) 1/10 of a second was gained by fueling him lower
2) The intention was to stop him before so there would be enough left in the tank.

This is what I don't get:
1) Even if the car had enough in the tank, wouldn't not entering the par ferme
still get them penalized.

2) I'm completely lost on the "rat" conspiracy theory.

3) How is Webber being adamant about not relenting to Red Bull's orders have anything to do with this?

4) The penalty was foreseen, but how is starting from the pits any better than starting in the top ten with full fuel?
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Old 4th November 2012, 11:38   #58
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Absolutely! A clean start is crucial at this point, now that Maldo has warned that he is going for attack in the race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Whatever is the case, this is one huge chance for Fernando. A good start, and getting ahead of the likes of Maldonado (without any incident) is the key

And I expect a good show from Kimi, starting from the 2nd row.
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Old 4th November 2012, 13:04   #59
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
This is what I don't get:
1) Even if the car had enough in the tank, wouldn't not entering the par ferme
still get them penalized.

2) I'm completely lost on the "rat" conspiracy theory.

3) How is Webber being adamant about not relenting to Red Bull's orders have anything to do with this?

4) The penalty was foreseen, but how is starting from the pits any better than starting in the top ten with full fuel?

1. For a genuine mechanical problem that stops the car from reaching the parc ferme will not warranty a penalty.

2. I am guessing, it could be the case of fuel being stored at separate bladders apart from the fuel tank designed and placed to optimize weight distribution of the car when running on low fuel. The problem being, RB was not able to extract this fuel easily even after bringing the car out of the parc ferme. I am still confused when the article says 'fluids' and not 'fuel'

3. The team wanted to ensure that Vettel gets ahead of Webber in Q as Webber showed better pace on saturday as the article says.

4. Starting from pitlane... setup changes and RB might decide to run a different setup for straight line speed as Vettel would need it more than anything else today.
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Old 4th November 2012, 13:38   #60
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Here's part of a post from another forum which should give some technical insights (some parts bolded by me):

Quote:
Fuel sits in the fuel tank. Fuel in the fuel tank gets sloshed around by centrifugal forces when the car is cornering. If there is little fuel in the tank and lots of free space that means that you can get into a situation where the fuel pump gets starved because centrifugal forces have moved the fuel to where it can't be picked up. So in F1 you have a middle "tank" called the fuel collector that keeps 2 litres of fuel in a much smaller place and feeds the fuel pump. 2 litres is generally enough to power the car for 25-30 seconds, ie enough time for the fuel to settle back down and for the collector to be re-supplied.There is line out from the collector from which the FIA collects their fuel sample.

The fuel gets into the collector via lifter pumps. If those fail then there's no fuel getting into the collector. Same thing happens if any of the trap doors between the various compartments in the fuel tank get stuck, no fuel is reaching the lifter pumps, no fuel is being delivered to the collector. At that point you have to stop the car or starve your pump (and engine). If you 're lucky there's enough fuel left in the collector for the FIA to get their sample, if not you can have 150 litres of fuel in the tank, it makes no difference, the FIA can't sample it without removing the fuel cap, which under the regulations is not allowed.
Original poster: engel @ autosport F1 forum.

That would explain why Horner said that there is enough fuel in the car, but "the regulations prevent us from extracting it".
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