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Old 5th November 2012, 13:41   #106
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
As a championship contender, if Vettel could jump from 24 -> 2nd, Fernando should have atleast won the race.
RBR has a much better car than Ferrari. Also, the safety car episodes helped the German and not to forget the "let him pass" communication from Toro Rosso.

Having said that, finishing on podium after starting from the pit lane is not something simple. Kudos to Sebastian!
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Old 5th November 2012, 14:01   #107
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Really don't think it helped all that much. He was ~24s behind Hamilton before the 1st SC. After the SC he was ~16s behind Hamilton, but was the last car. But while Hamilton stormed away at the top, Vettel had to overtake cars and the gap was back up to ~24s when Hamilton retired. Same with his gap with the others (Kimi, Alonso, Button) as well.

Being on fresher rubber, he was able to overtake the slower cars quickly. I think he was faster than the leaders at some point (Alonso, Button) due to having fresher tires. But then, the leaders stopped and were on fresher rubbers than him (and faster than him). So he didn't gain much w.r.t the leaders with his pitstops, infact he lost time to all (Kimi, Alonso, Button) with his 2nd pitstop.

For eg: the gap between Vettel and Alonso was ~16s when the 1st SC was deployed. It went down to ~10 when the SC went back in. The gap was back up to ~17s in another 3-4 laps, after which it started coming down (Vettel on fresher tires than Alonso). The gap was ~12s when Alonso pitted and was back up to ~15s after Vettel pitted.

I think where Vettel was lucky was that some of the others - Webber, Maldonado, Massa etc - who would've posed bigger challenges to his progress, took themselves out of contention, which helped him get upto 4th before the second SC.
Vettel pitted under the SC on lap 13 and rejoined last when the SC was still out.

And thus he saved huge time because cars on track were slow behind the SC. Add to that, Vettel's first pit stop was a slow one as they had to change the nose as well. So, in effect, he made a slow stop to change the nose and still gained 8s on track. That's huge!

And since Vettel was out of sync with others, he gained a lot when others made their only stop and Vettel was pumping in fast laps.

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
That's not always true. It depends on the race situation. In Vettel's case, all those who were ahead of him had also stopped before the SC. But it certainly helped him cut the gap to Button and evetually helped him move from 4th to 3rd.
I am not getting this. True, the top runners were done with their only pit stop before the SC. But They needn't make any more stops. And clearly, Vettel didn't have the tyres to go the distance.

If the second safety car hadn't happened, he would have joined far back to top 3 considering they were all together on the track before Vettel' stop. And as you rightly said, the incident prior to the second SC took away Webber, Maldonado, Massa etc who would have delayed him further. So, here again he got advantage from the second SC period.

I agree it was a storming drive (especially, the duel with Button for 3rd) with a very fast car under him set up for the race. But he got immense help from the 2 SC periods. And he made them count. Without the 2 SC periods, he wouldn't have got close to the top 3 let alone challenge them. That's all I am saying.

Let's agree to disagree here.
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Old 5th November 2012, 14:08   #108
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

A race made interesting mostly by crashes/safety car period and the fact that Vettel was at the back of the grid. It seems Vettel/RBR got away with the glaring mistakes they made this weekend.

- RBR fuel sample problem sends Vettel to the back of the grid.
- Vettel climbs up and tangles with Bruno Senna to partially destroy his front wing.
- A safety car closes up the field again but Vettel makes a mistake and has to pit to replace his front wing. Switches to soft tires.
- Drivers in front crash and burn, MW is asked to pit and Vettel moves up to 4th pulling out a 20s+ gap to 5th.
- Pits for soft tires again and another safety car bunches the field again.

For me, RBR was incredibly lucky this weekend.

At the end, 4 WDCs in top 4, Alonso hunting Kimi and the fight for 3rd were a treat to watch. I wasn't sure who to cheer as I wanted Kimi to win but also wanted Alonso to close the title gap to Vettel. Also, I thought Jenson defended brilliantly but in the end Vettel got him with the soft tires advantage. Surely, Vettel had to be very happy with 3rd.

Moving on to Ferrari, they don't deserve any title. I doubt anyone except Alonso would have been in title hunt with that car.

Mclaren seems to be either fast but unreliable or reliable but slow. Can this be the job of Sam Michael?
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Old 5th November 2012, 17:13   #109
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
And thus he saved huge time because cars on track were slow behind the SC. Add to that, Vettel's first pit stop was a slow one as they had to change the nose as well. So, in effect, he made a slow stop to change the nose and still gained 8s on track. That's huge!
I don't think being last after the SC was an advantage. As I mentioned before, he lost all those 8s he made up in 3 or 4 laps after the 1st SC.

Vettel's pitstop during 1st SC was not a pre-planned one. He had to pit due to contact made during the first SC period. He was on the harder tire and I'm sure he would've gone farther than the leaders before his 1st stop if it hadn't been for the incident during 1st SC period which damaged his front wing further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
And since Vettel was out of sync with others, he gained a lot when others made their only stop and Vettel was pumping in fast laps.
He also lost all that time when the leaders pitted and were on fresher rubber than him for 6-7 laps.

He ended up ahead of Maldonado, Webber, Massa etc because they made mistakes in the period between the 1st SC period and Vettel's 2nd pitstop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
If the second safety car hadn't happened, he would have joined far back to top 3 considering they were all together on the track before Vettel' stop.
Yes, he joined far back (~14s behind Button) and the 2nd safety car helped him close the gap. That gained him one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
And as you rightly said, the incident prior to the second SC took away Webber, Maldonado, Massa etc who would have delayed him further. So, here again he got advantage from the second SC period.
He was ahead of all those drivers before the 2nd SC, even after they all had made their last stops of the race. Hence I don't understand how the 2nd SC gained him anything w.r.t those drivers.

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
Without the 2 SC periods, he wouldn't have got close to the top 3 let alone challenge them. That's all I am saying.
And all I'm saying is that he would probably have been 4th anyway even without the first SC period, given the other indicents. There is no question that he gained 1 place due to the 2nd SC period. But his run from 24th to 4th had more to do with other drivers' mistakes ahead of him rather than the 1st SC, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
Let's agree to disagree here.
Right.
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Old 5th November 2012, 23:03   #110
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

There is a nice race chart here:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/0...ix-lap-charts/

You can see how Vettel fared relative to others.

Advantage 1: SC1
Before 1st SC, he was lapping similar to Webber/Button/Massa. During SC1, he got to do a free pit stop, which got rid of dodgy front wing and he switched to faster soft tyres, which came into play later.
Advantage 2: Maldonado train
Though Vettel lost some time fighting with Grosjean, he didn't actually lose much to the pack behind Maldonado. From lap 20 he started gaining massively on this pack, helped largely by a slow Maldonado keeping others behind him
Advantage 3: Mistakes from Webber/Massa.
Webber and Massa lost good chunk of time to Vettel here and effectively promoted him up by three places. So he didn't have to overtake Massa/Webber/Maldonado on track.
Advantage 4: SC2
Gained a place on Button. This even put him in contention for the win if everything went his way.

So, that's 4 places gained. Realistically he would have finished P6/P7 if it was a normal race without incidents.
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Old 5th November 2012, 23:13   #111
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Hard to acknowledge it,but red bs effectively beat everyone over the head with sheer strategy and putting together an effective package of cogs and aero and the rest,with a sprinkling of triple helpings of luck.

Everyone else was in the same race,but noone was skilled/lucky enough to capitalize.

When the heck is it going to run out?
Ghost rider smell,anyone?



I wish newey gets back to McL.
Not going to happen,yeah,but I wish.

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Old 5th November 2012, 23:47   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk

I wish newey gets back to McL.
Not going to happen,yeah,but I wish.
Mclaren sure seem to be the ones to lose the most next season. With Lewis leaving, and seeing the current pace of the MP4-27, one just hopes that Whitmarsh and his team pull their act together and act fast. Maybe they'll pull a fast one with the 2013 car: maybe the boffins at the MTC in Woking have already designed something competent. But with JB at the helm, they need a good second driver too, else they have to forget the constructor's title next year.

^ oops, all this sounds a bit pessimistic. Didn't mean to. All I hope is, Mcl bounce back next year and seriously challenge Newey's next. Fingers crossed.
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Old 6th November 2012, 13:36   #113
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Whitmarsh and co will have whole of winter to think about the decision of signing Perez. At the moment Perez isn't inspiring any confidence at all, in fact he has done worse after the decision was announced.

It seems Kimi was approached by McLaren (and possibly Ferrari) but clearly he wasn't interested. Kimi is happy where he is.
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McLaren will struggle next year, that is guaranteed. Lewis will strugglw in Mercedes. So, unless Ferrari give a good car to Alonso, next year will be very boring; Vettel may win the championship with many races to spare. Kimi will remain a dark horse, it will be interesting to see how good a car can Lotus give to him.
I can only remember these pearls of wisdom from Floyd (in Time) for McL and possibly Lewis

Hanging on in quiet desperation
Is the English way

The time is gone
The song is over
Thought I'd something more to say
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Old 6th November 2012, 15:26   #114
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20210164

Gary Anderson's column on Ferrari's qualifying problems and Vettel's start from pit lane.
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Old 6th November 2012, 17:46   #115
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Interesting discussion on AF1 about this...

http://img.imgur.com/sbeeM.gif
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Old 6th November 2012, 19:59   #116
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

Any news on the Rosberg \ Karthikeyan incident?FIA announced it will be investigated after the race?

Or did the stewards feel since it isnt MercGP car #7 there isnt a need to give a 10 grid penalty
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Old 6th November 2012, 20:33   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix
Interesting discussion on AF1 about this...

http://img.imgur.com/sbeeM.gif
Are you sure this link is correct? Dunno whether its a problem on my side, but its just opening a .gif image. Is that what you intended to show? :confused
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Old 6th November 2012, 22:17   #118
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

The link anachronix posted is working properly for me.

@ Anachronix, What are they doing? Thats the part which holds the camera (what else?) right ?

How does changing angle help? I never knew they were movable !
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Old 6th November 2012, 22:22   #119
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Probably a browser problem. Will check it again later, when I'm online on PC again. Thanks by the way. :-)
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Old 6th November 2012, 23:08   #120
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Default Re: 2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit

It was a steering failure on the HRT, Narain braked in that corner as he had no steer and Rosberg got caught out!

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Originally Posted by jraj View Post
Any news on the Rosberg \ Karthikeyan incident?FIA announced it will be investigated after the race?

Or did the stewards feel since it isnt MercGP car #7 there isnt a need to give a 10 grid penalty
I intended to show the rubbery nosecone of RB. The gif shows the way the tip of the front wing was easily twisted by the mechanic who was changing the nose in Vettel's car.

The topic is discussed here:
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=176989


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale View Post
Are you sure this link is correct? Dunno whether its a problem on my side, but its just opening a .gif image. Is that what you intended to show? :confused
Quote:
Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
The link anachronix posted is working properly for me.

@ Anachronix, What are they doing? Thats the part which holds the camera (what else?) right ?

How does changing angle help? I never knew they were movable !
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