Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Motor-Sports > Int'l Motorsport


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th November 2012, 18:43   #106
mgh
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 395
Thanked: 33 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
2010 - Alonso was leading by 15 points over Vettel before the last race. But Vettel went on to win the championship. This time its other way around and Alonso has got a chance to take revenge.
that was a result of Ferrari shooting themselves in the foot with the worst pit stop strategy ever seen.
Red Bull are unlikely to do that.
mgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2012, 18:52   #107
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,043
Thanked: 3,174 Times
Default

What a race!!
Just finished watching it.
Highlights were Massa's slap in the face to Ferrari management. Given a little more time, I'm sure we'd have heard, over the radio," Alonso is faster, repeat, Alonso is faster!".
Jenson, what moves man!
Vettel,I hope he was berating himself with the comments when he got taken. Otherwise, someone should locate his toybox, please.
Harvey, thank you for not blabbering through the radio communications, and for not allowing the talker to, too.

Hammy boy!!
Amazing stuff! I have half a mind to follow his seat at Mercedes. I can always justify it with being a splinter team of sorts.
mayankk is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2012, 19:38   #108
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,579
Thanked: 3,475 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
What a race!!
Just finished watching it.
Highlights were Massa's slap in the face to Ferrari management. Given a little more time, I'm sure we'd have heard, over the radio," Alonso is faster, repeat, Alonso is faster!".
Jenson, what moves man!
Vettel,I hope he was berating himself with the comments when he got taken. Otherwise, someone should locate his toybox, please.
I agree! Just finished watching the full recording. Awesome circuit indeed! Hamilton was topclass, and his teammate displayed some of his strengths in overtaking and wheel-to-wheel driving. And poor Massa... If not for the position change, he would have been up there fighting with Hamilton and Vettel (and not a distant 3rd place finish).
vb-san is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2012, 23:57   #109
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,233
Thanked: 1,221 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

http://www.accuweather.com/en/br/sao...-weather/45881

Pavan, time for the Brazil thread. A wet weekend predicted in Brazil

Its going to be a lottery!
anachronix is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2012, 11:15   #110
Senior - BHPian
 
Hatari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 1,568
Thanked: 364 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
I dont quite get what you mean here. Two wrongs make a right?
If Renault and Mclaren did something wrong, does it give license to Ferrari to do something wrong. Does it make the wrong that Ferrari does right?

Also, I dont get what sort of comparison being done. Kimi for being a bad talker, Vettel for being a cry baby, we are talking about ethics here and what has happened is wrong. This has nothing to do with what others do. This was a decision taken by Ferrari to give them an unfair advantage at the cost of others.
Taking light by batsmen at time when they are in a weak position is not sportsman like. Nobody says that it upholds the spirit of the game. It is unethical. And if some one does something unethical in one sport that does not wipe of the responsibility of sportsman/teams in other sports.

What Ferrari did was unethical and shameful. Giving parallels that some else also does it does not make Ferrari clean. Also, doing a crime and talking publicly does not absolve you of the crime and the responsibility it comes with.

And also I am completely lost as to how it is being claimed that Ferrari will never do anything wrong.
What is wrong is wrong
Wrong? I dont think it was. You say Ferrari are the team who have "violated every norm of sportsman spirit" while forgetting others have broken iron clad the rules outright.

The other comparisons were for Pavan as a question, with respect to driver attitude in general.

Since according to you, taking the light is unethical, Im curious, did you actually play any sports? For school/college etc? If not i'll just be

Bottomline is that, for someone who has been fighting all season long in a much slower car, against a team which are light years ahead in Quali, meaning he already starts every race at a disadvantage, the team taking that decision is ethics free and quite logical, simply to have an outside hope of glory at Brazil.

In the words of 17th century Japanese Miyamoto Musashi (who set out in his 'Book of Five Rings' teachings ranging from strategy, philosophy and battlefield tactics to self-control and spiritual calm) and whom Fernando quoted -

If the enemy thinks in the mountains, attack by sea. If they think in the sea, attack by the mountains


If the sword breaks, attack with the hands,If they cut off your hands, push the enemy with your shoulders, even with the teeth.

This is war my friend.. Bring on Sau Paulo!!!

Last edited by Hatari : 21st November 2012 at 11:23.
Hatari is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2012, 11:34   #111
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 289
Thanked: 94 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Since according to you, taking the light is unethical, Im curious, did you actually play any sports? For school/college etc? If not i'll just be
What has this got to do whether I play any sports or not. Whether I do or not is another matter. Sports is not war where defeat means death or servitude. Sports is a way of putting your skills on display and have competition so that you improve on those skills. How Ferrari and Alonso managed to do that by this act remains to be understood?

Again and again you keep saying others did this others did that etc etc. This is the language of politicians and not sportsmen.
zoombiee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2012, 11:47   #112
Senior - BHPian
 
asr245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 1,134
Thanked: 351 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

I am actually not even sure of what's wrong with what Ferrari did? They figured that they would very likely lose one place at the start from the dirty side - that translates like from 6th & 8th positions to 7th and 9th on turn one. Instead, by doing what they did, they finished 4th and 10th. Massa may be feeling bad about it, but then that's what happens when you spend half the season prodding at the back of the field when your team-mate is winning races and fight for the championship. Also, if you ask me, when a driver would rather want to qualify 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th etc. instead of 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th etc, then there's something wrong in the system. 2 wrongs don't make a right, but 1st wrong (decision) can lead to another wrong (decision).

For me, this was a decision in the best interest of the Ferrari team. If Felipe had an outside chance, then the feelings would have been entirely different.
asr245 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2012, 12:17   #113
Senior - BHPian
 
Hatari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 1,568
Thanked: 364 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
What has this got to do whether I play any sports or not. Whether I do or not is another matter. Sports is not war where defeat means death or servitude. Sports is a way of putting your skills on display and have competition so that you improve on those skills. How Ferrari and Alonso managed to do that by this act remains to be understood?

Again and again you keep saying others did this others did that etc etc. This is the language of politicians and not sportsmen.
As i suspected, you obviously have not. I rest my case.
Hatari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2012, 11:45   #114
Senior - BHPian
 
Hatari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 1,568
Thanked: 364 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Found this article
Massa gearbox penalty best decision of the season
http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4...of_the_season/
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Alonso can never stand in the same pedestal as Schumi, he's way too far behind and cannot even achieve 25% of Schumi's success, lets stop comparing his attitude to the Legend.

About the new boys, they are young bloods.

Alonso never was a team man, facts cant change overnite.
You bring up Schumi records to highlight his success (which I never denied or spoke about) you conveniently brush them aside when talking of his attitude! He will have rec among the highest reprimands as well! He's a legend in that as well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jraj View Post
The kind of attitude which screamed to the media that his team didnt want him to carry over the No1 status to Mclaren in 2006

The kind of attitude which blackmailed his employer - Give me No1 status,else I would expose the Stepneygate issue

Just a hypothetical question - Should the F2012 let go in Brazil just like the F2006 did in Suzuka,do you think Alonso's attitude will let him respond the same way that Michael did?

I dont want to comment about others - but Michael & Kimi,I have immense respect for these 2 guys on that account alone - they rose and fell with their team.They never ever trained their guns on their own team
Alonso felt betrayed at Mclaren.. that the whole team wanted Hamilton to win more than him, which was true given Lewis joined them as a kid. They wanted to see him win his 1st WDC.

At the end of 2010, abu dhabi.. there was a shot of a very dejected alonso, with his head in his hands, surronded by his crew, consoling each other.

He was a complete team man in Renault and is now at Ferrari, simply because he feels it back from the team. I have no doubt he will respond in the same way and focus on next year. (Hope it doesnt come to that though!)
Hatari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2012, 12:41   #115
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EU - Nordic
Posts: 1,543
Thanked: 917 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Alonso felt betrayed at Mclaren.. that the whole team wanted Hamilton to win more than him, which was true given Lewis joined them as a kid. They wanted to see him win his 1st WDC.
The bolded part, IMO, is pure speculation on your part. Fernando did nothing that season (on-track) to get the team to focus only on him. He finished equal on points with his team-mate.

Did he expect the team to favour him because he was a 2-time WDC and his team-mate was a rookie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
He was a complete team man in Renault
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intl-m...-shanghai.html (Alonso blaming Renault for his loss at Shanghai)

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/55177/1...front_row.html
StarrySky is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2012, 16:57   #116
Senior - BHPian
 
Hatari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 1,568
Thanked: 364 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
The bolded part, IMO, is pure speculation on your part. Fernando did nothing that season (on-track) to get the team to focus only on him. He finished equal on points with his team-mate.

Did he expect the team to favour him because he was a 2-time WDC and his team-mate was a rookie?
No, he just didnt expect everyone to be rooting for Lewis to win.

What he says about Fisi, is completely logical to me, it seems like a bad call by the team. The rest is ofcourse frustration for not being on Pole.

Like I said, ALL F1 CHAMPIONS HATE TO LOSE AND WILL NOT GO DOWN WELL WITH THEM.
Hatari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2012, 17:05   #117
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 289
Thanked: 94 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Like I said, ALL F1 CHAMPIONS HATE TO LOSE AND WILL NOT GO DOWN WELL WITH THEM.
How come we never saw such behavior from Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen or Kimi Raikkonen? Havent heard any controversy involving Jensen Button either. All of them are world champions.
zoombiee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2012, 18:20   #118
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Michigan,USA
Posts: 445
Thanked: 73 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Alonso felt betrayed at Mclaren.. that the whole team wanted Hamilton to win more than him, which was true given Lewis joined them as a kid. They wanted to see him win his 1st WDC.

At the end of 2010, abu dhabi.. there was a shot of a very dejected alonso, with his head in his hands, surronded by his crew, consoling each other.

He was a complete team man in Renault and is now at Ferrari, simply because he feels it back from the team. I have no doubt he will respond in the same way and focus on next year. (Hope it doesnt come to that though!)
Bahhh,how convenient.Thats the lame excuse given by Alonso supporters
Mclaren is the team that let Senna and Prost race.I guess Alonso is a nobody before them.Only if Alonso had made it a 2 race contest between him and Kimi,maybe he could have got the support from Mclaren.But to do that Alonso should have stayed ahead of his F1 debuting teammate throughout.

Coming back to Shangai 2006,yeah yeah,that I can understand.Fisichella was faster than Alonso and Michael was catching up Fisichella pretty fast.Eventually he did overtake them both.What could have Renault made in that situation - maybe asked Alonso to pit and as soon as he came out,they could have instructed Fisichella to crash just like they asked Piquet Jr to.Too bad that Fisichella wasnt a complete team player like Alonso and Piquet Jr
jraj is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2012, 19:22   #119
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

Since we are discussing 2007 season here, here is a refresher of some events during the year and the more probable reason why the team rooted for LH. I don't think the team would have been really happy to get excluded from the constructors battle when they were clearly going to be the winners that year.

Source : Alonso's wiki article.

Quote:
In the qualifying for the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix, while both McLarens were in the pits, Alonso remained stationary in the McLaren pit for a few seconds. This delayed the then provisional pole sitter and team-mate Lewis Hamilton long enough to prevent him from getting another 'hot lap' in. Alonso then went on to claim pole.[69] McLaren boss Ron Dennis later said the team had got "out of sequence" when Hamilton did not as agreed allow Alonso past earlier in the qualifying session. He added that Alonso was "under the control of his engineer" when he was waiting in the pit lane.[70] However, Alonso was subsequently given a five-place grid penalty[71] and his McLaren team were docked the 15 constructors' World Championship points they would have earned in the race.[72]
As a result of this investigation, it emerged that some team members within McLaren, among them Alonso, were aware of confidential information belonging to the Ferrari team. This information was commented on to Alonso by McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa who had also received information from McLaren chief designer Mike Coughlan. The email contained text suggesting that Alonso was surprised by the data and doubted its authenticity. According to the "spygate" related email exchanges between Alonso and de la Rosa, it was clear that Alonso knew about Ferrari's pit strategies in the Australian Grand Prix and Bahrain Grand Prix. Alonso finished 2nd and 5th respectively in those races.[73] Ron Dennis told the FIA about the case during the Hungarian Grand Prix. Amid media allegations that Alonso threatened Dennis with reporting the team to FIA himself if he was not given number one driver status, Ron Dennis stated in a televised interview that there had been an argument, and that Alonso had said something in the heat of the moment but immediately apologised. This was when Dennis found out about Ferrari data and immediately informed the FIA. Pitlane sources have suggested, from published FIA stewards data, that an argument involving reporting the McLaren team to the FIA was prompted by the fact that there was no stewards' investigation regarding the qualifying pitlane incident until Anthony and Lewis Hamilton made a formal complaint on the Saturday evening; costing Alonso a five-place grid penalty and loss of Constructors' Points for the team. FIA then revealed that it had had knowledge of the Spygate case thanks to a slip made by Coughlan.[74]
zenren is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2012, 20:32   #120
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,043
Thanked: 3,174 Times
Default

This is turning into the worst race thread this season.
Come on,guys.
mayankk is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2014 US GP - Circuit of the Americas - Race Thread deetjohn Int'l Motorsport 18 7th November 2014 11:03
2012 F1 - Indian Grand Prix -Buddh International Circuit PAVAN KADAM Int'l Motorsport 103 9th December 2012 11:40
' Conquering The Americas ' - Muscle Car Trip karan561 Travelogues 14 19th August 2012 11:42
Buddh Int'l Circuit Track Day for All - 19th Feb 2012 m4ugr8 Indian Motorsport 9 18th April 2012 11:43
Circuit of the Americas - Austin, Texas to host 2012 U.S Grand Prix Scorcher Int'l Motorsport 7 17th November 2011 19:11


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:58.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks